**2024 Pool** Race 22, United States GP

[Mark]

Please post your predictions for the GP in United before the start
of P1 on 22/11/2024. Times for various timezones appear below, but
the cutoff is start of practice.

Pole position:

P1:
P2:
P3:

There is a web page here where you can see the points/predictions as
they stand as well as looking at past competitions/scoring systems:

http://www.conmy.co.uk/f1/f1.cgi

Track (Last Vegas) 21/11/2024 20:30 PST
Austin 21/11/2024 22:30 CST
West Coast USA 21/11/2024 20:30 PST
East Coast USA 21/11/2024 23:30 EST
Ireland/Portugal/UK 22/11/2024 04:30 GMT
Central Europe 22/11/2024 05:30 CET
Most of Arabia 22/11/2024 07:30 AST
Oman/UAE 22/11/2024 08:30 GST
China 22/11/2024 12:30 CST
Japan/Korea 22/11/2024 13:30 JST
Perth 22/11/2024 12:30 AWST
Adelaide/Darwin 22/11/2024 15:00 ACDT
Melbourne/Canberra/Sydney 22/11/2024 15:30 AEDT
New Zealand 22/11/2024 17:30 NZDT
Ukraine 22/11/2024 07:30 EEST

[Mark]

Pole position: VER

P1: NOR
P2: VER
P3: LEC

[Mark Jackson]

Post by Mark
Track (Last Vegas) 21/11/2024 20:30 PST

This might be two hours off:

https://www.formula1.com/en/racing/2024/las-vegas

[Mark]

Post by Mark Jackson

Post by Mark
Track (Last Vegas) 21/11/2024 20:30 PST

https://www.formula1.com/en/racing/2024/las-vegas

Yeah - the times were taken from the provisional calendar, and they
moved quite a few this year. My cop-out is that I always say that the
start of practice is the cut-off and this is just a guide.

I used to update it a few times during the season - fully automated and
taken straight from the F1 web page - but they've made the data _so_
horrible (and change it even mid-season) it's become semi-manual and
long-winded.

So, from what I can see, the times are:

Track (Last Vegas) 21/11/2024 18:30 PST
Austin 21/11/2024 20:30 CST
West Coast USA 21/11/2024 18:30 PST
East Coast USA 21/11/2024 21:30 EST
Ireland/Portugal/UK 22/11/2024 02:30 GMT
Central Europe 22/11/2024 03:30 CET
Most of Arabia 22/11/2024 05:30 AST
Oman/UAE 22/11/2024 06:30 GST
China 22/11/2024 10:30 CST
Japan/Korea 22/11/2024 11:30 JST
Perth 22/11/2024 10:30 AWST
Adelaide/Darwin 22/11/2024 13:00 ACDT
Melbourne/Canberra/Sydney 22/11/2024 13:30 AEDT
New Zealand 22/11/2024 15:30 NZDT
Ukraine 22/11/2024 04:30 EET

[Yazoo]

Post by Mark
I used to update it a few times during the season - fully automated and
taken straight from the F1 web page - but they've made the data _so_
horrible (and change it even mid-season) it's become semi-manual and
long-winded.

F1 webs were always horrible. They don't understand that if they make
the site user friendly it will help F1 to be more popular.
If they make API for data to be freely used by others, many will use
them and spread the word (open data concept).
Not only schedule, but all data: live timings, standings, other
statistics, everything.

[Mark]

Post by Yazoo

Post by Mark
I used to update it a few times during the season - fully automated and
taken straight from the F1 web page - but they've made the data _so_
horrible (and change it even mid-season) it's become semi-manual and
long-winded.

F1 webs were always horrible. They don't understand that if they make
the site user friendly it will help F1 to be more popular.
If they make API for data to be freely used by others, many will use
them and spread the word (open data concept).
Not only schedule, but all data: live timings, standings, other
statistics, everything.

It is one of the reasons I'm a bit slower with results the last couple
of years. For a decade, that was fully automated. A Python script would
parse the F1 website, compile the full set of results and inject them
into the SQL table. Another script would then build the results post.

The pages were never great (malformed HTML and XML), but a few filters
carefully nudged it into compliance for the full parse. All I had to do
was run them, check the results were right and hit "post". Literally -
even with a proper check - 60s of my time.

About 18 months ago, they changed it mid-season. Suddenly, it was *so*
badly malformed, I was writing a whole new custom parser (as I couldn't
use the short-cut of using a standard XML parser), but it not only
needed to be essentially tailored to their weird* layout, the nature of
the brokenness changed from weekend to weekend. That 1 minute job became
(often) an hour or two making automation pointless as it's easier to
manually record the results.

Finally, I gave up completely on automation for this season. It means I
have to find time to check results (and there have been a lot of late
appeals and amendments), and manually update the results file (I still
automate the updates). As a result, I mainly don't even try to publish
the same day.

All because web designers these days are *so* sloppy, they can't even
get basic validation of data right...and browser companies are complicit
as they have built acceptance of this brokenness into their browsers, so
that they can render even the most broken pages (mostly).

* I'm talking about a level of unmatched and mismatched tags that it
makes validation tools and parsers give up in frustration. Just a
simple example is the 96 violations (24 errors, 4 warnings, 68 info
advisories) that the W3C validator comes up with just on the front
results page:

https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.formula1.com%2Fen%2Fresults%2F2024%2Fraces

[Yazoo]

Post by Mark
All because web designers these days are *so* sloppy, they can't even
get basic validation of data right...and browser companies are complicit
as they have built acceptance of this brokenness into their browsers, so
that they can render even the most broken pages (mostly).
* I'm talking about a level of unmatched and mismatched tags that it
makes validation tools and parsers give up in frustration. Just a
simple example is the 96 violations (24 errors, 4 warnings, 68 info
advisories) that the W3C validator comes up with just on the front
https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.formula1.com%2Fen%2Fresults%2F2024%2Fraces

I feel you.
The whole HTML concept is soooo losely defined and "out of control"
that such horrible stories are widespread.
As a former developer (back in the days, 25 years ago when everything
was much more defined and strict), I understand the frustration with
this mess.

Why in the world you'd need to write the parser!?
They have all data already structured, so they only need to publish
them properly. No big deal, really. But, someone have to make the
decision about it.

[Mark Jackson]

Post by Mark

Post by Mark
I used to update it a few times during the season - fully automated and
taken straight from the F1 web page - but they've made the data _so_
horrible (and change it even mid-season) it's become semi-manual and
long-winded.

The "Classification" page at

http://www.forix.com/gp.php?l=0&r=20240021&c=2

is a lot cleaner, if you have access. (The table of results is easy to
find and copy out.)

Post by Mark
It is one of the reasons I'm a bit slower with results the last couple
of years. For a decade, that was fully automated. A Python script would
parse the F1 website, compile the full set of results and inject them
into the SQL table. Another script would then build the results post.

I still have occasion to write scripts to do things like take text
output from an Excel file and turn it into an HTML table - the former
being a lot easier than the latter for adding and removing entries
without screwing up the layout.

They're in Python, of course. It wasn't the NBA star of the same name
who coined the marketing slogan that used to be used on Python.org:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.python/c/yVEsK9m74SE/m/3L0yPGHjxgsJ

[Phil Carmody]

Post by Mark
It is one of the reasons I'm a bit slower with results the last couple
of years. For a decade, that was fully automated. A Python script would
parse the F1 website, compile the full set of results and inject them
into the SQL table. Another script would then build the results post.

How about scraping something like the season's wikipedia page instead?

Phil

[Yazoo]

Pole position: NOR

P1: NOR
P2: VER
P3: PIA

[Martin Harran]

Pole position: LEC

P1: VER
P2: NOR
P3: LEC

[Carl Keehn]

Post by Mark
Please post your predictions for the GP in United before the start
of P1 on 22/11/2024. Times for various timezones appear below, but
the cutoff is start of practice.

Pole: Verstappen

P1: Verstappen

p2: Sainz

P3: Piastri

[Hugh Johnson]

Post by Mark
Please post your predictions for the GP in United before the start
of P1 on 22/11/2024. Times for various timezones appear below, but
the cutoff is start of practice.

I thought I already posted but nothing showed up in the feed. Apologies
if you get this twice.


Pole: VER

P1: VER
P2: NOR
P3: HAM

[Mark Jackson]

Pole position: Norris

P1: Norris
P2: Verstappen
P3: Leclerc

[a425couple]

Post by Mark
Please post your predictions for the GP in United before the start
of P1 on 22/11/2024. Times for various timezones appear below, but
the cutoff is start of practice.

a425couple predicts
Pole position: LEC
P1: LEC
P2: NOR
P3: PIA

[durian]

Post by Mark
Please post your predictions for the GP in United before the start
of P1 on 22/11/2024. Times for various timezones appear below, but
the cutoff is start of practice.

Pole: LEC
P1: LEC
P2: VER
P3: NOR

-peter

[Mark]

Post by Mark
Please post your predictions for the GP in United before the start
of P1 on 22/11/2024. Times for various timezones appear below, but
the cutoff is start of practice.

I am waiting on:

Hornplayer9599
ceg
Ar
Sreekumar A
JohnM
Sir Tim
D Munz
Phil Carmody
Shaun
EB5AGV
Alan Baker
mairsz
Hugh

I have:

Entrant Pole 1 2 3
Mark VER NOR VER LEC
Carl Keehn VER VER SAI PIA
Yazoo NOR NOR VER PIA
Martin Harran LEC VER NOR LEC
Mark Jackson NOR NOR VER LEC
a425couple LEC LEC NOR PIA
durian LEC LEC VER NOR
Hugh Johnson VER VER NOR HAM

[Hornplayer9599]

Post by Mark
Please post your predictions for the GP in United before the start
of P1 on 22/11/2024. Times for various timezones appear below, but
the cutoff is start of practice.

Pole: NOR

P1: VER
P2: NOR
P3: LEC

[Sreekumar A]

Post by Mark
Pole position: VER
P1: VER
P2: NOR
P3: LEC

Sreekumar

[Sir Tim]

Pole position: VER

P1: VER

P2: NOR

P3: LEC

[EB5AGV]

Pole position: NOR

P1: NOR
P2: VER
P3: SAI

[John Milner]

Pole: VER

P1: VER
P2: LEC
P3: NOR

[Mark]

Post by Mark
Please post your predictions for the GP in United before the start
of P1 on 22/11/2024. Times for various timezones appear below, but
the cutoff is start of practice.

I am waiting on:

ceg
Ar
D Munz
Phil Carmody
Shaun
Alan Baker
mairsz

I have:

Entrant Pole 1 2 3
Mark VER NOR VER LEC
Hornplayer9599 NOR VER NOR LEC
Carl Keehn VER VER SAI PIA
Yazoo NOR NOR VER PIA
Martin Harran LEC VER NOR LEC
Mark Jackson NOR NOR VER LEC
Sreekumar A VER VER NOR LEC
JohnM VER VER LEC NOR
Sir Tim VER VER NOR LEC
a425couple LEC LEC NOR PIA
durian LEC LEC VER NOR
EB5AGV NOR NOR VER SAI
Hugh VER VER NOR HAM

[ceg]

Posting for ceg...

Pole position: NOR

P1: VER
P2: NOR
P3: PIA

[Ar]

On 04/11/2024 09:29, Mark wrote:

Pole position: Lando Norris

P1: Lando Norris
P2: Charles Leclerc
P3: Carlos Sainz

[dmunz]

Pole position: NOR

P1: NOR
P2: LEC
P3: VER

[Mark]

Post by Yazoo
Pole position: NOR
P1: NOR
P2: LEC
P3: VER

Already in.

Here's the consolidated list:

I have:

Entrant Pole 1 2 3
Mark VER NOR VER LEC
Hornplayer9599 NOR VER NOR LEC
ceg NOR VER NOR PIA
Carl Keehn VER VER SAI PIA
Yazoo NOR NOR VER PIA
Martin Harran LEC VER NOR LEC
Ar NOR NOR LEC SAI
Mark Jackson NOR NOR VER LEC
Sreekumar A VER VER NOR LEC
JohnM VER VER LEC NOR
Sir Tim VER VER NOR LEC
D Munz NOR NOR LEC VER
a425couple LEC LEC NOR PIA
durian LEC LEC VER NOR
Phil Carmody VER VER LEC NOR
Shaun NOR NOR HAM PIA
EB5AGV NOR NOR VER SAI
Alan Baker NOR NOR SAI LEC
mairsz VER VER NOR LEC
Hugh VER VER NOR HAM