Discussion:
**2024 Pool** Race 22, United States GP
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Mark
2024-11-04 09:29:21 UTC
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Please post your predictions for the GP in United before the start
of P1 on 22/11/2024. Times for various timezones appear below, but
the cutoff is start of practice.

Pole position:

P1:
P2:
P3:

There is a web page here where you can see the points/predictions as
they stand as well as looking at past competitions/scoring systems:

http://www.conmy.co.uk/f1/f1.cgi

Track (Last Vegas) 21/11/2024 20:30 PST
Austin 21/11/2024 22:30 CST
West Coast USA 21/11/2024 20:30 PST
East Coast USA 21/11/2024 23:30 EST
Ireland/Portugal/UK 22/11/2024 04:30 GMT
Central Europe 22/11/2024 05:30 CET
Most of Arabia 22/11/2024 07:30 AST
Oman/UAE 22/11/2024 08:30 GST
China 22/11/2024 12:30 CST
Japan/Korea 22/11/2024 13:30 JST
Perth 22/11/2024 12:30 AWST
Adelaide/Darwin 22/11/2024 15:00 ACDT
Melbourne/Canberra/Sydney 22/11/2024 15:30 AEDT
New Zealand 22/11/2024 17:30 NZDT
Ukraine 22/11/2024 07:30 EEST
Mark
2024-11-04 09:32:04 UTC
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Pole position: VER

P1: NOR
P2: VER
P3: LEC
Mark Jackson
2024-11-04 12:28:15 UTC
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Post by Mark
Track (Last Vegas) 21/11/2024 20:30 PST
This might be two hours off:

https://www.formula1.com/en/racing/2024/las-vegas
--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
If you can't write comedy about Caltech,
you can't write comedy. - J. Kent Clark
Mark
2024-11-04 13:20:28 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Mark
Track (Last Vegas) 21/11/2024 20:30 PST
https://www.formula1.com/en/racing/2024/las-vegas
Yeah - the times were taken from the provisional calendar, and they
moved quite a few this year. My cop-out is that I always say that the
start of practice is the cut-off and this is just a guide.

I used to update it a few times during the season - fully automated and
taken straight from the F1 web page - but they've made the data _so_
horrible (and change it even mid-season) it's become semi-manual and
long-winded.

So, from what I can see, the times are:

Track (Last Vegas) 21/11/2024 18:30 PST
Austin 21/11/2024 20:30 CST
West Coast USA 21/11/2024 18:30 PST
East Coast USA 21/11/2024 21:30 EST
Ireland/Portugal/UK 22/11/2024 02:30 GMT
Central Europe 22/11/2024 03:30 CET
Most of Arabia 22/11/2024 05:30 AST
Oman/UAE 22/11/2024 06:30 GST
China 22/11/2024 10:30 CST
Japan/Korea 22/11/2024 11:30 JST
Perth 22/11/2024 10:30 AWST
Adelaide/Darwin 22/11/2024 13:00 ACDT
Melbourne/Canberra/Sydney 22/11/2024 13:30 AEDT
New Zealand 22/11/2024 15:30 NZDT
Ukraine 22/11/2024 04:30 EET
Yazoo
2024-11-05 07:58:54 UTC
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Post by Mark
I used to update it a few times during the season - fully automated and
taken straight from the F1 web page - but they've made the data _so_
horrible (and change it even mid-season) it's become semi-manual and
long-winded.
F1 webs were always horrible. They don't understand that if they make
the site user friendly it will help F1 to be more popular.
If they make API for data to be freely used by others, many will use
them and spread the word (open data concept).
Not only schedule, but all data: live timings, standings, other
statistics, everything.
--
It's better to be judged by twelwe than carried by six.
Mark
2024-11-05 09:16:10 UTC
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Post by Yazoo
Post by Mark
I used to update it a few times during the season - fully automated and
taken straight from the F1 web page - but they've made the data _so_
horrible (and change it even mid-season) it's become semi-manual and
long-winded.
F1 webs were always horrible. They don't understand that if they make
the site user friendly it will help F1 to be more popular.
If they make API for data to be freely used by others, many will use
them and spread the word (open data concept).
Not only schedule, but all data: live timings, standings, other
statistics, everything.
It is one of the reasons I'm a bit slower with results the last couple
of years. For a decade, that was fully automated. A Python script would
parse the F1 website, compile the full set of results and inject them
into the SQL table. Another script would then build the results post.

The pages were never great (malformed HTML and XML), but a few filters
carefully nudged it into compliance for the full parse. All I had to do
was run them, check the results were right and hit "post". Literally -
even with a proper check - 60s of my time.

About 18 months ago, they changed it mid-season. Suddenly, it was *so*
badly malformed, I was writing a whole new custom parser (as I couldn't
use the short-cut of using a standard XML parser), but it not only
needed to be essentially tailored to their weird* layout, the nature of
the brokenness changed from weekend to weekend. That 1 minute job became
(often) an hour or two making automation pointless as it's easier to
manually record the results.

Finally, I gave up completely on automation for this season. It means I
have to find time to check results (and there have been a lot of late
appeals and amendments), and manually update the results file (I still
automate the updates). As a result, I mainly don't even try to publish
the same day.

All because web designers these days are *so* sloppy, they can't even
get basic validation of data right...and browser companies are complicit
as they have built acceptance of this brokenness into their browsers, so
that they can render even the most broken pages (mostly).

* I'm talking about a level of unmatched and mismatched tags that it
makes validation tools and parsers give up in frustration. Just a
simple example is the 96 violations (24 errors, 4 warnings, 68 info
advisories) that the W3C validator comes up with just on the front
results page:

https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.formula1.com%2Fen%2Fresults%2F2024%2Fraces
Yazoo
2024-11-05 09:44:11 UTC
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Post by Mark
All because web designers these days are *so* sloppy, they can't even
get basic validation of data right...and browser companies are complicit
as they have built acceptance of this brokenness into their browsers, so
that they can render even the most broken pages (mostly).
* I'm talking about a level of unmatched and mismatched tags that it
makes validation tools and parsers give up in frustration. Just a
simple example is the 96 violations (24 errors, 4 warnings, 68 info
advisories) that the W3C validator comes up with just on the front
https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.formula1.com%2Fen%2Fresults%2F2024%2Fraces
I feel you.
The whole HTML concept is soooo losely defined and "out of control"
that such horrible stories are widespread.
As a former developer (back in the days, 25 years ago when everything
was much more defined and strict), I understand the frustration with
this mess.

Why in the world you'd need to write the parser!?
They have all data already structured, so they only need to publish
them properly. No big deal, really. But, someone have to make the
decision about it.
--
It's better to be judged by twelwe than carried by six.
Mark Jackson
2024-11-05 15:23:51 UTC
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Post by Mark
Post by Mark
I used to update it a few times during the season - fully automated and
taken straight from the F1 web page - but they've made the data _so_
horrible (and change it even mid-season) it's become semi-manual and
long-winded.
The "Classification" page at

http://www.forix.com/gp.php?l=0&r=20240021&c=2

is a lot cleaner, if you have access. (The table of results is easy to
find and copy out.)
Post by Mark
It is one of the reasons I'm a bit slower with results the last couple
of years. For a decade, that was fully automated. A Python script would
parse the F1 website, compile the full set of results and inject them
into the SQL table. Another script would then build the results post.
I still have occasion to write scripts to do things like take text
output from an Excel file and turn it into an HTML table - the former
being a lot easier than the latter for adding and removing entries
without screwing up the layout.

They're in Python, of course. It wasn't the NBA star of the same name
who coined the marketing slogan that used to be used on Python.org:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.python/c/yVEsK9m74SE/m/3L0yPGHjxgsJ
--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
If you can't write comedy about Caltech,
you can't write comedy. - J. Kent Clark
Phil Carmody
2024-11-06 19:11:47 UTC
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Post by Mark
It is one of the reasons I'm a bit slower with results the last couple
of years. For a decade, that was fully automated. A Python script would
parse the F1 website, compile the full set of results and inject them
into the SQL table. Another script would then build the results post.
How about scraping something like the season's wikipedia page instead?

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/
Yazoo
2024-11-05 08:00:13 UTC
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Pole position: NOR

P1: NOR
P2: VER
P3: PIA
--
It's better to be judged by twelwe than carried by six.
Martin Harran
2024-11-06 17:42:01 UTC
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Pole position: LEC

P1: VER
P2: NOR
P3: LEC
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