Discussion:
Three PUs per season...
(too old to reply)
~misfit~
2018-03-13 00:03:57 UTC
Permalink
... has got a some manufacturers (Renault and Honda) thinking about
deliberately taking penalties for a fourth unit. It's not *just* about
turning the wick down and trading power for reliability - it's also about
bringing updates. Each new PU that's introduced can be a more developed
version of the previous PU. This means that the suppliers only get two
opportunities to bring new developments to the PU in-season this year.
Renault and Honda are thinking that getting a third chance to develop their
PU is worth taking grid penalties for.

I think that it would be amusing if all of the teams took an extra PU at the
same time on the same race weekend and got the same penalties - which
wouldn't change the starting order at all. ;-) However it seems that
Mercedes have managed to get even more power out of their PU over the winter
and so may be able to trade that power for extra reliablitiy and run much as
they did last year on three PUs instead of four.

By carefully watching the stint-lengths of race simuations during testing it
was possible to conclude that the Ferrari PU seems to be less fuel efficient
than their competition. It seems they may have traded fuel efficiency for
reliability rather than power in an effort to keep up with Mercedes. This
could result in them having to save fuel in races during 2018 hoping that if
they're leading they'll be able to maintain track position*.

[* Maybe we'll see the FIA changing rules on the fly to aid them if it
becomes farcical - Like the farce of clouds of oil vapour coming out of
their crank-case breathers during testing. (See start of
)]
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
geoff
2018-03-13 01:18:27 UTC
Permalink
Now THAT'S constipated !

geoff
t***@gmail.com
2018-03-13 02:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by geoff
Now THAT'S constipated !
Your boyfriend has it all
packed in there.
geoff
2018-03-13 10:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by geoff
Now THAT'S constipated !
Your boyfriend has it all
packed in there.
Thanks, Spud-gun.

geoff
keefy
2018-03-13 02:40:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
... has got a some manufacturers (Renault and Honda) thinking about
deliberately taking penalties for a fourth unit. It's not *just* about
turning the wick down and trading power for reliability - it's also about
bringing updates. Each new PU that's introduced can be a more developed
version of the previous PU. This means that the suppliers only get two
opportunities to bring new developments to the PU in-season this year.
Renault and Honda are thinking that getting a third chance to develop their
PU is worth taking grid penalties for.
I think that it would be amusing if all of the teams took an extra PU at the
same time on the same race weekend and got the same penalties - which
wouldn't change the starting order at all. ;-) However it seems that
Mercedes have managed to get even more power out of their PU over the winter
and so may be able to trade that power for extra reliablitiy and run much as
they did last year on three PUs instead of four.
By carefully watching the stint-lengths of race simuations during testing it
was possible to conclude that the Ferrari PU seems to be less fuel efficient
than their competition. It seems they may have traded fuel efficiency for
reliability rather than power in an effort to keep up with Mercedes. This
could result in them having to save fuel in races during 2018 hoping that if
they're leading they'll be able to maintain track position*.
[* Maybe we'll see the FIA changing rules on the fly to aid them if it
becomes farcical - Like the farce of clouds of oil vapour coming out of
their crank-case breathers during testing. (See start of
http://youtu.be/vTtbVXnRhRY )]
I am surprised they allow reversing in the pit lane, I would think that
would be a safety hazard.
Sir Tim
2018-03-13 07:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by keefy
I am surprised they allow reversing in the pit lane, I would think that
would be a safety hazard.
I think there was a red flag
larkim
2018-03-13 14:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
By carefully watching the stint-lengths of race simuations during testing it
was possible to conclude that the Ferrari PU seems to be less fuel efficient
than their competition. It seems they may have traded fuel efficiency for
reliability rather than power in an effort to keep up with Mercedes. This
Do you really think that was discernible from the data? How many more laps
for the same fuel do you reckon the Ferrari loses to its competitors, and
how much mass does that contribute to the differential between the
Ferrari and their competitors on the grid?
~misfit~
2018-03-13 23:50:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
By carefully watching the stint-lengths of race simuations during
testing it was possible to conclude that the Ferrari PU seems to be
less fuel efficient than their competition. It seems they may have
traded fuel efficiency for reliability rather than power in an
effort to keep up with Mercedes. This
Do you really think that was discernible from the data? How many
more laps for the same fuel do you reckon the Ferrari loses to its
competitors,
Two to four per fill at the same speed. Of course they might have a smaller
fuel tank.
Post by larkim
and how much mass does that contribute to the
differential between the
Ferrari and their competitors on the grid?
A few kilos, it's hard to say. However the weight isn't the biggest issue.
Rather it's going the distance on 105kg of fuel on the 'power tracks'
without having to lift and coast too much.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
M2T
2018-03-14 01:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
By carefully watching the stint-lengths of race simuations during testing it
was possible to conclude that the Ferrari PU seems to be less fuel efficient
than their competition. It seems they may have traded fuel efficiency for
reliability rather than power in an effort to keep up with Mercedes. This
Do you really think that was discernible from the data? How many more laps
for the same fuel do you reckon the Ferrari loses to its competitors, and
how much mass does that contribute to the differential between the
Ferrari and their competitors on the grid?
Ferrari may have to start with up to 10kg more fuel than the Mercedes,
then watch Hamilton disappear into the distance. That'll do Vettel's
blood pressure a lot of no good. Expect to hear the Merc engineer
telling Lewis to "brace for ramming".

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