Discussion:
FIA Cock Up
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CS
2020-09-06 20:53:31 UTC
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What a shambles by Chevy Chase and go. They are trying to prevent teams coaching drivers by radio but the singularly fail big time to post proper signs. A couple of weedy boards on the outside of the turn, well out of a driver's eyeline, when a humongous sign above the pit lane is flashing "BOX BOX". It should have been flashing "CLOSED" in RED.
Dipsticks. Worthy of a Texarse explosion.
Made for a good race with the young bloods though, so that was fun.
XYXPDQ
2020-09-06 22:01:45 UTC
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Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was right next to an opening meant just for that purpose. Instead they pushed it all the way into the pits.
~misfit~
2020-09-07 02:23:00 UTC
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Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was right next to an opening meant just for that purpose. Instead they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic table and disturbed their lunch.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
texas gate
2020-09-07 04:42:10 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic table and disturbed their lunch.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
You know fuck all the situation.
You useless piece of shit.
Take a course worker course.
Oh you cant. You have a sore fucking back.
Cant pass the drug test. And your shit filled adult diaper is gross.
Ya you tell em how to do it.
Fucking pirating stinky loser.
You have no say. Wake the fuck up. Thief.
texas gate
2020-09-07 04:52:23 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic table and disturbed their lunch.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
You tell them how to run things.
Tell them you are pirating f1 tv coverage.
And living on government handouts.
Also a deluxe fucking loser, cry baby,
with a chip on his shoulder, because
of his own stupidity.
texas gate
2020-09-07 05:03:12 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic table and disturbed their lunch.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
You disturbed your boyfriend's lunch
with your limp penis in his mouth.
Mark Jackson
2020-09-07 20:44:17 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was right
next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead they pushed
it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic table
and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.

That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not large
enough for car removal.

"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are just
marshal posts," said Masi.

"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a
marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the only safe
place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into pitlane
because there was no other opening available."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
When all you have is a hammer every problem becomes a nail.
When all you have is the police every problem becomes a crime.
- Danielle Ponder
~misfit~
2020-09-08 00:18:49 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was right next to an opening meant
just for that purpose.  Instead they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are just marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a marshal post, and the car would
not fit at that area. So the only safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into
pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious. I could see it was a small
opening without a large area behind it but didn't know the whole story.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 01:16:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was
right next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead they
pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic
table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not large
enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are just
marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a
marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the only safe
place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into pitlane
because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious. I
could see it was a small opening without a large area behind it but
didn't know the whole story.
And precisely as I explained:

'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing
with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the pitlane is
closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and Hamilton
should have been aware of their location.

As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the teams
in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously it is
also in what forms part of the race director's event notes, which is
used for the drivers' meeting."'
geoff
2020-09-08 01:25:49 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was
right next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead they
pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic
table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not
large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are just
marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a
marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the only
safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into
pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious. I
could see it was a small opening without a large area behind it but
didn't know the whole story.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing
with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the pitlane is
closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and Hamilton
should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the teams
in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously it is
also in what forms part of the race director's event notes, which is
used for the drivers' meeting."'
Just a thought, as I cannot see a clear picture. The border of the
'flags' certainly appears red, but are the actual crosses red, or yellow ?

No BAK, not trying to weasel an excuse for HAM - just curious.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 03:50:03 UTC
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Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was
right next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead
they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic
table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not
large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are
just marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a
marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the only
safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into
pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious. I
could see it was a small opening without a large area behind it but
didn't know the whole story.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing
with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the pitlane is
closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and
Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously
it is also in what forms part of the race director's event notes,
which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
Just a thought, as I cannot see a clear picture. The border of the
'flags' certainly appears red, but are the actual crosses red, or yellow ?
No BAK, not trying to weasel an excuse for HAM - just curious.
I'm not sure myself. They weren't on the screen for very long.

From reviewing the highlights video at formula1.com, they appear to be
yellow crosses with red around the edges of the sign.

But whatever they were, it will have been in the pre-event notes and
talked about at the drivers meeting.
geoff
2020-09-08 06:29:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was
right next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead
they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic
table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not
large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are
just marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a
marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the only
safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into
pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious. I
could see it was a small opening without a large area behind it but
didn't know the whole story.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes
and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's event
notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
Just a thought, as I cannot see a clear picture. The border of the
'flags' certainly appears red, but are the actual crosses red, or yellow ?
No BAK, not trying to weasel an excuse for HAM - just curious.
I'm not sure myself. They weren't on the screen for very long.
From reviewing the highlights video at formula1.com, they appear to be
yellow crosses with red around the edges of the sign.
That's what I thought, which seems rather inept to me. Concentrating on
the apex of the fastest curve in F1, knowing there is a yellow flag,
expecting and seeing something yellow out of the corner of one's eye,
and only registering the expected yellow component.
Post by Alan Baker
But whatever they were, it will have been in the pre-event notes and
talked about at the drivers meeting.
Probably. But still contrary to the written rules which are what
drivers would have ingrained into their subconscious. He should have
remembered the part of the briefing that said these signs were different
to regulation.

geoff
~misfit~
2020-09-08 07:31:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was right next to an opening
meant just for that purpose.  Instead they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic table and disturbed their
lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are just marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a marshal post, and the car
would not fit at that area. So the only safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it
down into pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious. I could see it was a small
opening without a large area behind it but didn't know the whole story.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the outside, which are the
regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to
drivers that the pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and Hamilton should have been aware
of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the teams in my event notes, and
is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's
event notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
Just a thought, as I cannot see a clear picture. The border of the 'flags' certainly appears
red, but are the actual crosses red, or yellow ?
No BAK, not trying to weasel an excuse for HAM - just curious.
I'm not sure myself. They weren't on the screen for very long.
 From reviewing the highlights video at formula1.com, they appear to be yellow crosses with red
around the edges of the sign.
That's what I thought, which seems rather inept to me. Concentrating on the apex of the fastest
curve in F1, knowing there is a yellow flag, expecting and seeing something yellow out of the
corner of one's eye, and only registering the expected yellow component.
Post by Alan Baker
But whatever they were, it will have been in the pre-event notes and talked about at the drivers
meeting.
Probably.  But still contrary to the written rules which are what drivers would have ingrained into
their subconscious. He should have remembered the part of the briefing that said these signs were
different to regulation.
I watched several replays and found it very difficult to see a difference between the X and SC
displayed at marshall stations. They look very similar on those low-res square LED panels. Maybe
the whole panel flashing red would have been better?
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
texas gate
2020-09-08 14:52:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
I watched several replays
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
pirated replays
you fucking pillar of society
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 19:12:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was
right next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead
they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their
picnic table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not
large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are
just marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only
a marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the
only safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down
into pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious.
I could see it was a small opening without a large area behind it
but didn't know the whole story.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on
the outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both
Mercedes and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's
event notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
Just a thought, as I cannot see a clear picture. The border of the
'flags' certainly appears red, but are the actual crosses red, or yellow ?
No BAK, not trying to weasel an excuse for HAM - just curious.
I'm not sure myself. They weren't on the screen for very long.
 From reviewing the highlights video at formula1.com, they appear to
be yellow crosses with red around the edges of the sign.
That's what I thought, which seems rather inept to me. Concentrating
on the apex of the fastest curve in F1, knowing there is a yellow
flag, expecting and seeing something yellow out of the corner of one's
eye, and only registering the expected yellow component.
Post by Alan Baker
But whatever they were, it will have been in the pre-event notes and
talked about at the drivers meeting.
Probably.  But still contrary to the written rules which are what
drivers would have ingrained into their subconscious. He should have
remembered the part of the briefing that said these signs were
different to regulation.
I watched several replays and found it very difficult to see a
difference between the X and SC displayed at marshall stations. They
look very similar on those low-res square LED panels. Maybe the whole
panel flashing red would have been better?
See... ...this is where you make me laugh.

The red square/flag has an already defined meaning.

How does someone who tries to pretend he understands this stuff not know
that?
~misfit~
2020-09-09 00:55:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 8/09/2020 7:31 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
<snipped>
Post by ~misfit~
I watched several replays and found it very difficult to see a difference between the X and SC
displayed at marshall stations. They look very similar on those low-res square LED panels. Maybe
the whole panel flashing red would have been better?
It seems that Toto agrees with me about the signs for closed pit lane not being conspicuous enough:

“I think these funny crosses on the outside,” said Wolff, referring to the light panels on the
outside of Parabolica indicating that the pit lane was shut, “they should be red, first of all, and
maybe they should be blinking, because the driver has his mind already onto the pit stop. And then
at the pit lane entry, like we have had for bloody 50 years, put a damn red light that’s red, so
the driver comes and sees, there’s a red light, well then you don’t enter! Why make things
complicated if they can be easy?”

From
<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-reveal-the-simple-oversight-that-caused-hamiltons-race-ruining.6OiiUb3IBVnKNzaCq7IkGi.html>

It's fine for Baker saying they're trained to look at marshall stations but they're not in earnest
radio contact with the pits about tyre choices etc and making changes on the steering wheel (it was
a late call to come in).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Alan Baker
2020-09-09 01:58:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
<snipped>
Post by ~misfit~
I watched several replays and found it very difficult to see a
difference between the X and SC displayed at marshall stations. They
look very similar on those low-res square LED panels. Maybe the whole
panel flashing red would have been better?
It seems that Toto agrees with me about the signs for closed pit lane
“I think these funny crosses on the outside,” said Wolff, referring to
the light panels on the outside of Parabolica indicating that the pit
lane was shut, “they should be red, first of all, and maybe they should
be blinking, because the driver has his mind already onto the pit stop.
And then at the pit lane entry, like we have had for bloody 50 years,
put a damn red light that’s red, so the driver comes and sees, there’s a
red light, well then you don’t enter! Why make things complicated if
they can be easy?”
From
<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-reveal-the-simple-oversight-that-caused-hamiltons-race-ruining.6OiiUb3IBVnKNzaCq7IkGi.html>
It's fine for Baker saying they're trained to look at marshall stations
but they're not in earnest radio contact with the pits about tyre
choices etc and making changes on the steering wheel (it was a late call
to come in).
Sorry, but seeing all the signals at the marshal stations is NOT optional.
alister
2020-09-09 17:54:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
<snipped>
Post by ~misfit~
I watched several replays and found it very difficult to see a
difference between the X and SC displayed at marshall stations. They
look very similar on those low-res square LED panels. Maybe the whole
panel flashing red would have been better?
It seems that Toto agrees with me about the signs for closed pit lane
“I think these funny crosses on the outside,” said Wolff, referring to
the light panels on the outside of Parabolica indicating that the pit
lane was shut, “they should be red, first of all, and maybe they should
be blinking, because the driver has his mind already onto the pit stop.
And then at the pit lane entry, like we have had for bloody 50 years,
put a damn red light that’s red, so the driver comes and sees, there’s a
red light, well then you don’t enter! Why make things complicated if
they can be easy?”
From
<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-reveal-the-simple-
oversight-that-caused-hamiltons-race-ruining.6OiiUb3IBVnKNzaCq7IkGi.html>
Post by ~misfit~
It's fine for Baker saying they're trained to look at marshall stations
but they're not in earnest radio contact with the pits about tyre
choices etc and making changes on the steering wheel (it was a late call
to come in).
unfortunatlly that is simply the drivers tough luck
track signals are mandatory not optional & other tasks are secondary to
checking the status of the road/track ahead.

Try explaining to plod that the reason you jumped a red light was because
you were busy making adjustments to your car
see how far you get
--
Bill Gates Receives Slap On Wrist; Carpal Tunnel Flares Up

The phrase "slap on the wrist" usually signifies an extremely minor
punishment received for a crime. In Bill Gates' case, the punishment set
forth in the tentative settlement with the Department Of Justice hasn't
been quite so minor. After receiving a slap on the wrist from the DOJ,
Bill Gates' is now suffering from a bad case of carpal tunnel syndrome.

"Mr. Gates was slapped on the left wrist earlier today by a DOJ lawyer,"
said the chief surgeon of the mini-hospital enclosed within the Gates
Mansion. "Now he can't move that hand without extreme pain. It's obvious
that years of sitting in front of a computer plotting world domination has
caused his hands and nerves to become fragile and vulnerable to even the
slightest touch."

The Department of Justice proclaimed that the incident has vindicated
their actions. Explained the lawyer who delivered the punishment, "We've
been accused of selling out to Microsoft. We've been criticized for giving
up even though we've already won the game. But that's all wrong. It's
quite clear that the slap-on-the-wrist punishment has been anything but a
slap on the wrist. We won this case and Microsoft lost. So there!"
Alan Baker
2020-09-10 06:01:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by ~misfit~
<snipped>
Post by ~misfit~
I watched several replays and found it very difficult to see a
difference between the X and SC displayed at marshall stations. They
look very similar on those low-res square LED panels. Maybe the whole
panel flashing red would have been better?
It seems that Toto agrees with me about the signs for closed pit lane
“I think these funny crosses on the outside,” said Wolff, referring to
the light panels on the outside of Parabolica indicating that the pit
lane was shut, “they should be red, first of all, and maybe they should
be blinking, because the driver has his mind already onto the pit stop.
And then at the pit lane entry, like we have had for bloody 50 years,
put a damn red light that’s red, so the driver comes and sees, there’s a
red light, well then you don’t enter! Why make things complicated if
they can be easy?”
From
<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-reveal-the-simple-
oversight-that-caused-hamiltons-race-ruining.6OiiUb3IBVnKNzaCq7IkGi.html>
Post by ~misfit~
It's fine for Baker saying they're trained to look at marshall stations
but they're not in earnest radio contact with the pits about tyre
choices etc and making changes on the steering wheel (it was a late call
to come in).
unfortunatlly that is simply the drivers tough luck
track signals are mandatory not optional & other tasks are secondary to
checking the status of the road/track ahead.
Bingo.
Post by Brian Lawrence
Try explaining to plod that the reason you jumped a red light was because
you were busy making adjustments to your car
see how far you get
geoff
2020-09-10 06:35:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alister
Try explaining to plod that the reason you jumped a red light was because
you were busy making adjustments to your car
see how far you get
Might have a bit of a chance if you jumped a yellow light though ....

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 19:34:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was
right next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead
they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic
table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not
large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are
just marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a
marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the only
safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into
pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious.
I could see it was a small opening without a large area behind it
but didn't know the whole story.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on
the outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes
and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's event
notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
Just a thought, as I cannot see a clear picture. The border of the
'flags' certainly appears red, but are the actual crosses red, or yellow ?
No BAK, not trying to weasel an excuse for HAM - just curious.
I'm not sure myself. They weren't on the screen for very long.
 From reviewing the highlights video at formula1.com, they appear to
be yellow crosses with red around the edges of the sign.
That's what I thought, which seems rather inept to me. Concentrating on
the apex of the fastest curve in F1, knowing there is a yellow flag,
expecting and seeing something yellow out of the corner of one's eye,
and only registering the expected yellow component.
Except that those marshaling posts have been there for ALL the flags for
a long time.

And again, this is another thing you (and others) don't get:

A driver's concentration on the apex happens BEFORE he reaches it. By
the time he's at the apex the driver's eyes and brain are focused BEYOND
the apex to the corner exit. And:

A standard part of race driving is to automatically move your eyes to
check the flags (or led signs) being displayed at each marshaling post.

And the most important part:

This was happening at well below racing pace!

Leclerc crash happened just as Hamilton was beginning lap 25, and just 9
seconds later, the on-screen graphics show the Safety Car has been
deployed. Hamilton has had all the time in the world to realize there's
a full course caution and he clearly has realized it, because he is well
below racing speed when he comes through the final corner.

There is simply no excuse for not seeing that a cross was displayed.

None.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
But whatever they were, it will have been in the pre-event notes and
talked about at the drivers meeting.
Probably.  But still contrary to the written rules which are what
drivers would have ingrained into their subconscious. He should have
remembered the part of the briefing that said these signs were different
to regulation.
So... ...let me see if I have your thinking correct:

The written event notes (not the FIA rules: the notes for this
particular event) would be "ingrained" in his mind...

...but he would have taken no special notice of being told in a briefing
that the crosses were actually yellow?

Come on.

But you are correct that this was very stupid of the FIA and the event
organizers not to have written up the event notes correctly, and for all
we know, the drivers weren't informed of the difference between the
event notes and the actual on-track signal.

But unless some can show me event notes or a briefing where the drivers
were told that there would be both a yellow and a red cross being used
to signal different things, I'm sorry: he still should have understood
its meaning.
alister
2020-09-09 09:47:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was
right next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead
they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic
table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not
large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are
just marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a
marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the only
safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into
pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-
hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious.
I could see it was a small opening without a large area behind it
but didn't know the whole story.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on
the outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes
and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's event
notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
Just a thought, as I cannot see a clear picture. The border of the
'flags' certainly appears red, but are the actual crosses red, or yellow ?
No BAK, not trying to weasel an excuse for HAM - just curious.
I'm not sure myself. They weren't on the screen for very long.
 From reviewing the highlights video at formula1.com, they appear to
be yellow crosses with red around the edges of the sign.
That's what I thought, which seems rather inept to me. Concentrating on
the apex of the fastest curve in F1, knowing there is a yellow flag,
expecting and seeing something yellow out of the corner of one's eye,
and only registering the expected yellow component.
Except that those marshaling posts have been there for ALL the flags for
a long time.
A driver's concentration on the apex happens BEFORE he reaches it. By
the time he's at the apex the driver's eyes and brain are focused BEYOND
A standard part of race driving is to automatically move your eyes to
check the flags (or led signs) being displayed at each marshaling post.
This was happening at well below racing pace!
Leclerc crash happened just as Hamilton was beginning lap 25, and just 9
seconds later, the on-screen graphics show the Safety Car has been
deployed. Hamilton has had all the time in the world to realize there's
a full course caution and he clearly has realized it, because he is well
below racing speed when he comes through the final corner.
What has Le'Clerc's crash got to do with this?
that did not happen until AFTER the incident which was due to Magnussen's
retirement.
Post by Alan Baker
There is simply no excuse for not seeing that a cross was displayed.
None.
That is correct
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
But whatever they were, it will have been in the pre-event notes and
talked about at the drivers meeting.
Probably.  But still contrary to the written rules which are what
drivers would have ingrained into their subconscious. He should have
remembered the part of the briefing that said these signs were
different to regulation.
The written event notes (not the FIA rules: the notes for this
particular event) would be "ingrained" in his mind...
...but he would have taken no special notice of being told in a briefing
that the crosses were actually yellow?
Come on.
But you are correct that this was very stupid of the FIA and the event
organizers not to have written up the event notes correctly, and for all
we know, the drivers weren't informed of the difference between the
event notes and the actual on-track signal.
But unless some can show me event notes or a briefing where the drivers
were told that there would be both a yellow and a red cross being used
to signal different things, I'm sorry: he still should have understood
its meaning.
--
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of an expanding
bureaucracy.
Brian Lawrence
2020-09-08 05:02:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was
right next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead
they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic
table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not
large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are
just marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a
marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the only
safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into
pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious. I
could see it was a small opening without a large area behind it but
didn't know the whole story.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing
with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the pitlane is
closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and
Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously
it is also in what forms part of the race director's event notes,
which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
Just a thought, as I cannot see a clear picture. The border of the
'flags' certainly appears red, but are the actual crosses red, or yellow ?
The event notes document says:

"20) Track light panel displaying pit entry status

20.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use
the pit lane once the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.

20.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any
point during the race."

The panels are indicated on the pit lane maps at each event, the
positions vary from circuit to circuit and at some circuits only one
is thought to be necessary. In 2019 there were two at Melbourne,
Catalunya, Monaco, Red Bull Ring, Hungaroring, Suzuka, Mexico, CotA
& Interlagos. Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.

In some cases where there are two panels there is one on each side of
the track, but it depends on the track layout and where the drivers
eye-line is. Panels are always positioned no more than 30 degrees
away from the normal eye-line.

The 2020 Italian GP event note doc. is accessible from here:


<https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-championship/season-2020/italian-grand-prix/eventtiming-information>

There are 2 versions, the 3rd & 4th docs., labelled 'Event Notes' &
'Event Notes v2'.

The 2019 FIA docs. are here:


<https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-championship/season-2019/eventtiming-information-21>
Post by geoff
No BAK, not trying to weasel an excuse for HAM - just curious.
geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 05:46:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by XYXPDQ
Why didn't the marshals push the stranded car backwards, it was
right next to an opening meant just for that purpose.  Instead
they pushed it all the way into the pits.
If they'd pushed it back they would have had to move their picnic
table and disturbed their lunch.
If they'd pushed it back it would have gotten stuck.
That gap in the Armco is just to let the marshals out - it's not
large enough for car removal.
"There's some of openings are vehicle openings, some of them are
just marshal posts," said Masi.
"The ones that have the shorter orange band effectively are only a
marshal post, and the car would not fit at that area. So the only
safe place to remove [Magnussen's car] was to push it down into
pitlane because there was no other opening available."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty
Heh! Thanks Mr. Jackson. I must admit to being a little facetious. I
could see it was a small opening without a large area behind it but
didn't know the whole story.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes
and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's event
notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
Just a thought, as I cannot see a clear picture. The border of the
'flags' certainly appears red, but are the actual crosses red, or yellow ?
"20) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
20.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use
the pit lane once the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
20.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any
point during the race."
The panels are indicated on the pit lane maps at each event, the
positions vary from circuit to circuit and at some circuits only one
is thought to be necessary. In 2019 there were two at Melbourne,
Catalunya, Monaco, Red Bull Ring, Hungaroring, Suzuka, Mexico, CotA
& Interlagos. Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
In some cases where there are two panels there is one on each side of
the track, but it depends on the track layout and where the drivers
eye-line is. Panels are always positioned no more than 30 degrees
away from the normal eye-line.
<https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-championship/season-2020/italian-grand-prix/eventtiming-information>
There are 2 versions, the 3rd & 4th docs., labelled 'Event Notes' &
'Event Notes v2'.
<https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-championship/season-2019/eventtiming-information-21>
Huh.

It's thin, but based on those documents and what I thought I could see
in the video on Formula1.com, Hamilton might have the (somewhat weak)
case that the flashing crosses that were displayed were yellow, and the
signal that drivers MUST use the pit lane...

...as in the case of a complete blockage of the front straight...

...was also going to be yellow (an arrow):

'5) Track light panel displaying pit entry status

5.1 The light panel indicated on the pit lane map will display a
flashing yellow arrow if cars are required to use the pit lane once the
Safety Car has been deployed during the race.

5.2 The light panel indicated on the pit lane map will display a
flashing red cross if the pit lane is closed at any point during the race.'

Anyone who wants to weigh in on the colour of the signals should watch
this video:

<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.highlights-watch-all-the-action-from-pierre-gaslys-incredible-shock-italian.1wpD01On8tZ3EA4JY2BrI3.html>

Start at about 3:18 into that video and use full screen and half speed.

To me, it looks like the "X" is yellow and only the edge of the panel is
red.
Brian Lawrence
2020-09-08 09:19:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016,
17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.

Charlie's 2017 Note said,

"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status

22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once the
Safety Car has been deployed during the race.

22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during the
race."

Pretty much the same.
geoff
2020-09-08 10:39:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016,
17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once the
Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during the
race."
Pretty much the same.
Except if the crosses were in fact yellow. But were they ?

geoff
Brian Lawrence
2020-09-08 10:45:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016,
17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once
the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during the
race."
Pretty much the same.
Except if the crosses were in fact yellow. But were they ?
The crosses are yellow but they are on a red background, clearly seen in
HAM's onboard video - I posted a link a few mins ago, but


<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-reveal-the-simple-oversight-that-caused-hamiltons-race-ruining.6OiiUb3IBVnKNzaCq7IkGi.html>
geoff
2020-09-08 21:41:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by geoff
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016,
17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once
the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during
the race."
Pretty much the same.
Except if the crosses were in fact yellow. But were they ?
The crosses are yellow but they are on a red background, clearly seen in
HAM's onboard video - I posted a link a few mins ago, but
<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-reveal-the-simple-oversight-that-caused-hamiltons-race-ruining.6OiiUb3IBVnKNzaCq7IkGi.html>
Not 'clearly' to me. Looks more like yellow X on black background with
red border. Would love to see a higher resolution video, or a still.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 22:23:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by geoff
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for
2016, 17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once
the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during
the race."
Pretty much the same.
Except if the crosses were in fact yellow. But were they ?
The crosses are yellow but they are on a red background, clearly seen in
HAM's onboard video - I posted a link a few mins ago, but
<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-reveal-the-simple-oversight-that-caused-hamiltons-race-ruining.6OiiUb3IBVnKNzaCq7IkGi.html>
Not 'clearly' to me. Looks more like yellow X on black background with
red border. Would love to see a higher resolution video, or a still.
"Clearly" in the sense that they're not out of frame.

I completely agree with both your assessment of what was being displayed
(yellow X on a black field with a red edge around the outside) and that
it would be great to see a higher resolution version.
~misfit~
2020-09-09 00:58:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by geoff
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016, 17, 18 & 19. The panels
have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display flashing yellow arrows if cars
are required to use the pit lane once the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display flashing red crosses if the
pit lane is closed at any point during the race."
Pretty much the same.
Except if the crosses were in fact yellow. But were they ?
The crosses are yellow but they are on a red background, clearly seen in
HAM's onboard video - I posted a link a few mins ago, but
<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-reveal-the-simple-oversight-that-caused-hamiltons-race-ruining.6OiiUb3IBVnKNzaCq7IkGi.html>
Not 'clearly' to me. Looks more like yellow X on black background with red border. Would love to
see a higher resolution video, or a still.
Yeah not clear to me either and I watched a few higher-res replays during the race. Brian's eyes
must be a darn sight better than mine!
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
texas gate
2020-09-09 05:12:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Brian's eyes must be a darn sight better than mine!
Ya your eyes are full of cum.
You have brian killfiled.
You sad piece of shit.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
texas gate
2020-09-09 05:18:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Brian's eyes must be a darn sight better than mine!
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Why wouldn't they be?
You are the lowest of the low.
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 19:10:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016,
17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once
the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during the
race."
Pretty much the same.
Except if the crosses were in fact yellow. But were they ?
That's what I saw.

It's not much of an out... ...but technically...
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 19:10:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP
document because it's not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016,
17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once the
Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during the
race."
Pretty much the same.
And Masi's quote (it was Masi, right?) explained that they weren't being
displayed at a different place, but rather at the standard marshaling
locations.
alister
2020-09-09 09:40:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP document because it's
not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016,
17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once
the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during the
race."
Pretty much the same.
And Masi's quote (it was Masi, right?) explained that they weren't being
displayed at a different place, but rather at the standard marshaling
locations.
All completely academic
A driver should be fully aware of the location of all marshalling &
signalling posts & should understand the signals being given.

Had the signal changed just as lewis was approaching I could have
accepted a plead of "Already committed & to late to change safely" but
even that option is negated by the fact that he passed TWO signalling
stations

A totally just & appropriate penalties.
--
We'll try to cooperate fully with the IRS, because, as citizens, we feel
a strong patriotic duty not to go to jail.
-- Dave Barry
geoff
2020-09-09 10:30:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alister
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP document because it's
not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016,
17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once
the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during the
race."
Pretty much the same.
And Masi's quote (it was Masi, right?) explained that they weren't being
displayed at a different place, but rather at the standard marshaling
locations.
All completely academic
A driver should be fully aware of the location of all marshalling &
signalling posts & should understand the signals being given.
Had the signal changed just as lewis was approaching I could have
accepted a plead of "Already committed & to late to change safely" but
even that option is negated by the fact that he passed TWO signalling
stations
Two signalling stations with significant YELLOW in the centre, not the
stipulated RED.

But HAM didn't even try to claim that as an excuse. Maybe that's what he
scuttled up to ask about though ...

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-09 15:06:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alister
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Brian Lawrence
Unfortunately I can't check the 2019 Italian GP document because it's
not available on the FIA website - the doc.
is sometimes changed and reissued during an event and last year there
was a 2nd version, BUT it was issued with only the initial 4pp text
without the maps and and other pages, so the relevant page isn't
online. I have no reason to think it was any different to the 2020
page though.
OK, I've been sent copies of the Monza race director's note for 2016,
17, 18 & 19. The panels have been in the same places since 2017.
Charlie's 2017 Note said,
"22) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
22.1 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing yellow arrows if cars are required to use the pit lane once
the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
22.2 The light panels indicated on the pit lane map will display
flashing red crosses if the pit lane is closed at any point during the
race."
Pretty much the same.
And Masi's quote (it was Masi, right?) explained that they weren't being
displayed at a different place, but rather at the standard marshaling
locations.
All completely academic
A driver should be fully aware of the location of all marshalling &
signalling posts & should understand the signals being given.
Absolutely.
Post by alister
Had the signal changed just as lewis was approaching I could have
accepted a plead of "Already committed & to late to change safely" but
even that option is negated by the fact that he passed TWO signalling
stations
And passed them at low speed.
Post by alister
A totally just & appropriate penalties.
Precisely.
texas gate
2020-09-08 14:46:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
I must admit to being a little facetious.
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Nice try. You were being your usual cunt self.
CS
2020-09-07 05:04:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There should be lights on the inside before the start of the pit lane entry. Just like the lights at the pit lane exit.
texas gate
2020-09-07 05:12:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There should be lights on the inside before the start of the pit lane entry. Just like the lights at the pit lane exit.
Give it a rest.
Manbun fucked up.
Even his gay ass, drama queen, scooter trip
to the stewards didnt help.
Alan Baker
2020-09-07 05:13:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There should be
lights on the inside before the start of the pit lane entry. Just
like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track comes in handy.

Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling post as the navigate
around the track.

One of the things we demand in potential new racers is that the see,
recognize and properly respond to flags thrown at all stations.

Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the position of every
marshaling post on the track in P1, and typically, in every practice
session, all the stations put out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd
imagine in the case of F1, display a yellow light) on the out lap of
each session.

Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal at a marshal
post/station even at racing speed... ...and Hamilton was far from racing
speed.
geoff
2020-09-07 06:27:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There should be
lights on the inside before the start of the pit lane entry. Just
like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to know that the
lights are each visible in a direct line to the driver past the apex at
one point through the curve.
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling post as the navigate
around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is that the see,
recognize and properly respond to flags thrown at all stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the position of every
marshaling post on the track in P1, and typically, in every practice
session, all the stations put out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd
imagine in the case of F1, display a yellow light) on the out lap of
each session.
And he fucked up.
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal at a marshal
post/station even at racing speed... ...and Hamilton was far from racing
speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh. Certainly made
the race more interesting.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-07 07:32:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There should be
lights on the inside before the start of the pit lane entry. Just
like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to know that the
lights are each visible in a direct line to the driver past the apex at
one point through the curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled into you that you
have to be aware of where the signals will be coming from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling post as the
navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is that the see,
recognize and properly respond to flags thrown at all stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified to instruct
others in race driving".

:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the position of every
marshaling post on the track in P1, and typically, in every practice
session, all the stations put out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd
imagine in the case of F1, display a yellow light) on the out lap of
each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal at a marshal
post/station even at racing speed... ...and Hamilton was far from
racing speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh. Certainly made
the race more interesting.
Nope.

But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards to see if he
could get that penalty rescinded... ...right?

Or did that it escape your notice?

Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't do that if
you've "accepted you've fucked up".

Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same thing.
geoff
2020-09-07 08:30:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There should be
lights on the inside before the start of the pit lane entry. Just
like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to know that the
lights are each visible in a direct line to the driver past the apex
at one point through the curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled into you that you
have to be aware of where the signals will be coming from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling post as the
navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is that the see,
recognize and properly respond to flags thrown at all stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified to instruct
others in race driving".
:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the position of every
marshaling post on the track in P1, and typically, in every practice
session, all the stations put out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd
imagine in the case of F1, display a yellow light) on the out lap of
each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal at a marshal
post/station even at racing speed... ...and Hamilton was far from
racing speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh. Certainly
made the race more interesting.
Nope.
But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards to see if he
could get that penalty rescinded... ...right?
Or did that it escape your notice?
Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't do that if
you've "accepted you've fucked up".
Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same thing.
Especially if you are HAM. If it had been VER I'm sure you'd not have
pounced on him.

Presumably at the time he didn't realise that he had missed the
'flags'and thought there was some point in debating or clarifying what
had happened. If he had seen them, he wouldn't have bothered appealing.

And if he had seen the flags (and/or the team hadn't alerted him), he
wouldn't have pitted.

But chiefly his error, and to a much lesser degree that of the team, for
missing them.

geoff
Bigbird
2020-09-07 12:50:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There should
be lights on the inside before the start of the pit lane
entry. Just like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to know that
the lights are each visible in a direct line to the driver past
the apex at one point through the curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled into you that
you have to be aware of where the signals will be coming from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling post as the
navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is that the
see, recognize and properly respond to flags thrown at all
stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified to instruct
others in race driving".
:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the position of
every marshaling post on the track in P1, and typically, in
every practice session, all the stations put out a (usually)
yellow flag (or I'd imagine in the case of F1, display a
yellow light) on the out lap of each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal at a
marshal post/station even at racing speed... ...and Hamilton
was far from racing speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh.
Certainly made the race more interesting.
Nope.
But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards to see if
he could get that penalty rescinded... ...right?
Or did that it escape your notice?
Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't do that if
you've "accepted you've fucked up".
Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same thing.
Especially if you are HAM. If it had been VER I'm sure you'd not have
pounced on him.
Are you saying Baker is worthy of his reputation for denigrating
Hamilton? Say it isn't so.
Post by geoff
Presumably at the time he didn't realise that he had missed the
'flags'and thought there was some point in debating or clarifying
what had happened. If he had seen them, he wouldn't have bothered
appealing.
What Alan doesn't understand is that there is a lot more going on in an
F1 cockpit than when he is puttering around in his hobby car.
Post by geoff
And if he had seen the flags (and/or the team hadn't alerted him), he
wouldn't have pitted.
But chiefly his error, and to a much lesser degree that of the team,
for missing them.
Bingo, not difficult for anyone with a modicum less prejudice to
comprehend that.
--
Bozo bin
Texasgate
Heron
Enjoy!
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 01:23:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There should
be lights on the inside before the start of the pit lane
entry. Just like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to know that
the lights are each visible in a direct line to the driver past
the apex at one point through the curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled into you that
you have to be aware of where the signals will be coming from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling post as the
navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is that the
see, recognize and properly respond to flags thrown at all
stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified to instruct
others in race driving".
:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the position of
every marshaling post on the track in P1, and typically, in
every practice session, all the stations put out a (usually)
yellow flag (or I'd imagine in the case of F1, display a
yellow light) on the out lap of each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal at a
marshal post/station even at racing speed... ...and Hamilton
was far from racing speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh.
Certainly made the race more interesting.
Nope.
But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards to see if
he could get that penalty rescinded... ...right?
Or did that it escape your notice?
Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't do that if
you've "accepted you've fucked up".
Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same thing.
Especially if you are HAM. If it had been VER I'm sure you'd not have
pounced on him.
Are you saying Baker is worthy of his reputation for denigrating
Hamilton? Say it isn't so.
You still cannot actually quote me saying anything denigrating about him.
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Presumably at the time he didn't realise that he had missed the
'flags'and thought there was some point in debating or clarifying
what had happened. If he had seen them, he wouldn't have bothered
appealing.
What Alan doesn't understand is that there is a lot more going on in an
F1 cockpit than when he is puttering around in his hobby car.
And that doesn't relieve the driver of his obligation to see all "flags"
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
And if he had seen the flags (and/or the team hadn't alerted him), he
wouldn't have pitted.
But chiefly his error, and to a much lesser degree that of the team,
for missing them.
Bingo, not difficult for anyone with a modicum less prejudice to
comprehend that.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing
with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the pitlane is
closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and Hamilton
should have been aware of their location.

As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the teams
in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously it is
also in what forms part of the race director's event notes, which is
used for the drivers' meeting."'

<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
Bigbird
2020-09-08 16:30:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There
should be lights on the inside before the start of the
pit lane entry. Just like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to know
that the lights are each visible in a direct line to the
driver past the apex at one point through the curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled into you
that you have to be aware of where the signals will be coming
from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling post as
the navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is that
the see, recognize and properly respond to flags thrown at
all stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified to
instruct others in race driving".
:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the position
of every marshaling post on the track in P1, and
typically, in every practice session, all the stations put
out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd imagine in the case of
F1, display a yellow light) on the out lap of each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal at a
marshal post/station even at racing speed... ...and
Hamilton was far from racing speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh.
Certainly made the race more interesting.
Nope.
But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards to see
if he could get that penalty rescinded... ...right?
Or did that it escape your notice?
Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't do that
if you've "accepted you've fucked up".
Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same thing.
Especially if you are HAM. If it had been VER I'm sure you'd not
have pounced on him.
Are you saying Baker is worthy of his reputation for denigrating
Hamilton? Say it isn't so.
You still cannot actually quote me saying anything denigrating about him.
"still cannot" WTF is that meant to mean. I have frequently picked you
up for your obvious prejudice... including here and in another post
yesterday.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Presumably at the time he didn't realise that he had missed the
'flags'and thought there was some point in debating or clarifying
what had happened. If he had seen them, he wouldn't have bothered
appealing.
What Alan doesn't understand is that there is a lot more going on
in an F1 cockpit than when he is puttering around in his hobby car.
And that doesn't relieve the driver of his obligation to see all
Nobody said it does but it is a team sport and other drivers would have
made the same mistake if not for their teams warning them.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
And if he had seen the flags (and/or the team hadn't alerted
him), he wouldn't have pitted.
But chiefly his error, and to a much lesser degree that of the
team, for missing them.
Bingo, not difficult for anyone with a modicum less prejudice to
comprehend that.
[snip repeated irrelevant cut and paste]
--
Bozo bin
Texasgate
Heron
Enjoy!
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 19:08:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There
should be lights on the inside before the start of the
pit lane entry. Just like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track
comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to know
that the lights are each visible in a direct line to the
driver past the apex at one point through the curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled into you
that you have to be aware of where the signals will be coming
from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling post as
the navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is that
the see, recognize and properly respond to flags thrown at
all stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified to
instruct others in race driving".
:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the position
of every marshaling post on the track in P1, and
typically, in every practice session, all the stations put
out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd imagine in the case of
F1, display a yellow light) on the out lap of each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal at a
marshal post/station even at racing speed... ...and
Hamilton was far from racing speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh.
Certainly made the race more interesting.
Nope.
But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards to see
if he could get that penalty rescinded... ...right?
Or did that it escape your notice?
Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't do that
if you've "accepted you've fucked up".
Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same thing.
Especially if you are HAM. If it had been VER I'm sure you'd not
have pounced on him.
Are you saying Baker is worthy of his reputation for denigrating
Hamilton? Say it isn't so.
You still cannot actually quote me saying anything denigrating about him.
"still cannot" WTF is that meant to mean.
It's fairly rudimentary English. Are you sure you're fluent?
Post by Bigbird
I have frequently picked you
up for your obvious prejudice... including here and in another post
yesterday.
No. You've assumed prejudice where there has only been factual discussion.
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Presumably at the time he didn't realise that he had missed the
'flags'and thought there was some point in debating or clarifying
what had happened. If he had seen them, he wouldn't have bothered
appealing.
What Alan doesn't understand is that there is a lot more going on
in an F1 cockpit than when he is puttering around in his hobby car.
And that doesn't relieve the driver of his obligation to see all
Nobody said it does but it is a team sport and other drivers would have
made the same mistake if not for their teams warning them.
You don't know that. I don't know that. I suspect that some would, but
Hamilton DID.

At (much) less than racing speed, he missed a signal at a marshaling
post... ...something even amateur drivers are NEVER supposed to let happen.
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
And if he had seen the flags (and/or the team hadn't alerted
him), he wouldn't have pitted.
But chiefly his error, and to a much lesser degree that of the
team, for missing them.
Bingo, not difficult for anyone with a modicum less prejudice to
comprehend that.
[snip repeated irrelevant cut and paste]
Whereby "irrelevant" you mean "information that shows that the signals
were at normal marshaling posts where ALL the signals given to the
drivers are displayed and that shows critical information that no driver
is supposed to miss... ...ever."

Happy to help!

;-)
geoff
2020-09-08 22:03:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
At (much) less than racing speed, he missed a signal at a marshaling
post... ...something even amateur drivers are NEVER supposed to let happen.
"Hamilton admitted that he had not spotted the signals, as his focus was
on the right-hand side of the track and where the Magnussen incident was."

Clearly he is an incompetent driver and needs a proper teacher. You up
for the job ?

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 22:24:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
At (much) less than racing speed, he missed a signal at a marshaling
post... ...something even amateur drivers are NEVER supposed to let happen.
"Hamilton admitted that he had not spotted the signals, as his focus was
on the right-hand side of the track and where the Magnussen incident was."
Clearly he is an incompetent driver and needs a proper teacher. You up
for the job ?
I never said he was incompetent. Never even implied it.

He just had a HUGE fuck-up on that occasion.
~misfit~
2020-09-09 01:00:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
At (much) less than racing speed, he missed a signal at a marshaling post... ...something even
amateur drivers are NEVER supposed to let happen.
"Hamilton admitted that he had not spotted the signals, as his focus was on the right-hand side of
the track and where the Magnussen incident was."
Clearly he is an incompetent driver and needs a proper teacher. You up for the job ?
Yep. What the hell is he doing watching to make sure there are no marshalls in danger near the
track when he should obviously be looking the other way?
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Alan Baker
2020-09-09 01:09:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
At (much) less than racing speed, he missed a signal at a marshaling
post... ...something even amateur drivers are NEVER supposed to let happen.
"Hamilton admitted that he had not spotted the signals, as his focus
was on the right-hand side of the track and where the Magnussen
incident was."
Clearly he is an incompetent driver and needs a proper teacher. You up for the job ?
Yep. What the hell is he doing watching to make sure there are no
marshalls in danger near the track when he should obviously be looking
the other way?
You think that the signs at marshaling posts are only for marshals in
danger?

How cute and uninformed!
Bigbird
2020-09-11 17:32:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There
should be lights on the inside before the start of the
pit lane entry. Just like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track
comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to
know that the lights are each visible in a direct line
to the driver past the apex at one point through the
curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled into
you that you have to be aware of where the signals will be
coming from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling
post as the navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is
that the see, recognize and properly respond to flags
thrown at all stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified to
instruct others in race driving".
:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the
position of every marshaling post on the track in P1,
and typically, in every practice session, all the
stations put out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd
imagine in the case of F1, display a yellow light) on
the out lap of each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal
at a marshal post/station even at racing speed...
...and Hamilton was far from racing speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh.
Certainly made the race more interesting.
Nope.
But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards to
see if he could get that penalty rescinded... ...right?
Or did that it escape your notice?
Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't do
that if you've "accepted you've fucked up".
Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same thing.
Especially if you are HAM. If it had been VER I'm sure you'd
not have pounced on him.
Are you saying Baker is worthy of his reputation for denigrating
Hamilton? Say it isn't so.
You still cannot actually quote me saying anything denigrating about him.
"still cannot" WTF is that meant to mean.
It's fairly rudimentary English. Are you sure you're fluent?
It presumes you have asked me to quote your stupid assmongery
previously, which would be a falsehood.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
I have frequently picked you
up for your obvious prejudice... including here and in another post
yesterday.
No. You've assumed prejudice where there has only been factual
discussion.
No. I have seen you paint yourself into a corner and lie repeatedly
with little initial motivation other than to denigrate Hamilton.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Presumably at the time he didn't realise that he had missed
the 'flags'and thought there was some point in debating or
clarifying what had happened. If he had seen them, he
wouldn't have bothered appealing.
What Alan doesn't understand is that there is a lot more going
on in an F1 cockpit than when he is puttering around in his
hobby car.
And that doesn't relieve the driver of his obligation to see all
Nobody said it does but it is a team sport and other drivers would
have made the same mistake if not for their teams warning them.
You don't know that. I don't know that. I suspect that some would,
but Hamilton DID.
Carlos Sainz for one said as much.

So you don't know that but I did.

Your conceit has always been a big flaw.
Post by Alan Baker
At (much) less than racing speed, he missed a signal at a marshaling
post... ...something even amateur drivers are NEVER supposed to let happen.
Never miss an opportunity to denigrate him, do you?
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
And if he had seen the flags (and/or the team hadn't alerted
him), he wouldn't have pitted.
But chiefly his error, and to a much lesser degree that of the
team, for missing them.
Bingo, not difficult for anyone with a modicum less prejudice to
comprehend that.
[snip repeated irrelevant cut and paste]
--
Bozo bin
Texasgate
Heron
Enjoy!
Alan Baker
2020-09-11 17:47:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There
should be lights on the inside before the start of the
pit lane entry. Just like the lights at the pit lane
exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track
comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to
know that the lights are each visible in a direct line
to the driver past the apex at one point through the
curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled into
you that you have to be aware of where the signals will be
coming from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling
post as the navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is
that the see, recognize and properly respond to flags
thrown at all stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified to
instruct others in race driving".
:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the
position of every marshaling post on the track in P1,
and typically, in every practice session, all the
stations put out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd
imagine in the case of F1, display a yellow light) on
the out lap of each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal
at a marshal post/station even at racing speed...
...and Hamilton was far from racing speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh.
Certainly made the race more interesting.
Nope.
But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards to
see if he could get that penalty rescinded... ...right?
Or did that it escape your notice?
Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't do
that if you've "accepted you've fucked up".
Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same
thing.
Especially if you are HAM. If it had been VER I'm sure you'd
not have pounced on him.
Are you saying Baker is worthy of his reputation for denigrating
Hamilton? Say it isn't so.
You still cannot actually quote me saying anything denigrating about him.
"still cannot" WTF is that meant to mean.
It's fairly rudimentary English. Are you sure you're fluent?
It presumes you have asked me to quote your stupid assmongery
previously, which would be a falsehood.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
I have frequently picked you
up for your obvious prejudice... including here and in another post
yesterday.
No. You've assumed prejudice where there has only been factual discussion.
No. I have seen you paint yourself into a corner and lie repeatedly
with little initial motivation other than to denigrate Hamilton.
You're lying.
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Presumably at the time he didn't realise that he had missed
the 'flags'and thought there was some point in debating or
clarifying what had happened. If he had seen them, he
wouldn't have bothered appealing.
What Alan doesn't understand is that there is a lot more going
on in an F1 cockpit than when he is puttering around in his
hobby car.
And that doesn't relieve the driver of his obligation to see all
Nobody said it does but it is a team sport and other drivers would
have made the same mistake if not for their teams warning them.
You don't know that. I don't know that. I suspect that some would,
but Hamilton DID.
Carlos Sainz for one said as much.
Quote, please.
Post by Bigbird
So you don't know that but I did.
Your conceit has always been a big flaw.
LOL
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
At (much) less than racing speed, he missed a signal at a marshaling
post... ...something even amateur drivers are NEVER supposed to let happen.
Never miss an opportunity to denigrate him, do you?
That's not denigration. That is the simple fact of being a racing driver.

Missing a command flag is grounds to get a black flag.
Bigbird
2020-09-11 18:12:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex.
There should be lights on the inside before the
start of the pit lane entry. Just like the lights
at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual
track comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track
to know that the lights are each visible in a direct
line to the driver past the apex at one point
through the curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled
into you that you have to be aware of where the
signals will be coming from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling
post as the navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers
is that the see, recognize and properly respond to
flags thrown at all stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified
to instruct others in race driving".
:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the
position of every marshaling post on the track in
P1, and typically, in every practice session, all
the stations put out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd
imagine in the case of F1, display a yellow light)
on the out lap of each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a
signal at a marshal post/station even at racing
speed... ...and Hamilton was far from racing
speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy,
eh. Certainly made the race more interesting.
Nope.
But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards
to see if he could get that penalty rescinded...
...right?
Or did that it escape your notice?
Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't
do that if you've "accepted you've fucked up".
Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same thing.
Especially if you are HAM. If it had been VER I'm sure
you'd not have pounced on him.
Are you saying Baker is worthy of his reputation for
denigrating Hamilton? Say it isn't so.
You still cannot actually quote me saying anything denigrating about him.
"still cannot" WTF is that meant to mean.
It's fairly rudimentary English. Are you sure you're fluent?
It presumes you have asked me to quote your stupid assmongery
previously, which would be a falsehood.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
I have frequently picked you
up for your obvious prejudice... including here and in another
post yesterday.
No. You've assumed prejudice where there has only been factual discussion.
No. I have seen you paint yourself into a corner and lie repeatedly
with little initial motivation other than to denigrate Hamilton.
You're lying.
No, you have been tried and tested on this.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Presumably at the time he didn't realise that he had
missed the 'flags'and thought there was some point in
debating or clarifying what had happened. If he had seen
them, he wouldn't have bothered appealing.
What Alan doesn't understand is that there is a lot more
going on in an F1 cockpit than when he is puttering around
in his hobby car.
And that doesn't relieve the driver of his obligation to see
Nobody said it does but it is a team sport and other drivers
would have made the same mistake if not for their teams warning
them.
You don't know that. I don't know that. I suspect that some would,
but Hamilton DID.
Carlos Sainz for one said as much.
Quote, please.
Post race media pen interview

"Obviously you knew that the pitlane was closed."

"Well my team honestly they did a tremendous job to tell me... because
I was coming in, I was determined to come in because it was the perfect
time to pit... but the team told me don't pit... pit lane is closed. So
at that point I was pretty angry because I wanted to pit..."
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
So you don't know that but I did.
Your conceit has always been a big flaw.
LOL
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
At (much) less than racing speed, he missed a signal at a
marshaling post... ...something even amateur drivers are NEVER
supposed to let happen.
Never miss an opportunity to denigrate him, do you?
That's not denigration.
Yes it is. There is no need to keep repeating the undisputed fact that
he missed the message boards except to denigrate Lewis.
Post by Alan Baker
That is the simple fact of being a racing
driver.
Missing a command flag is grounds to get a black flag.
--
Bozo bin
Texasgate
Heron
Enjoy!
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 01:22:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
As far as I am aware, drivers look to the apex. There should be
lights on the inside before the start of the pit lane entry. Just
like the lights at the pit lane exit.
And this is where actual experience on an actual track comes in handy.
You don't need actual experience on the actual track to know that the
lights are each visible in a direct line to the driver past the apex
at one point through the curve.
But you do to have it to know how much it is drilled into you that you
have to be aware of where the signals will be coming from...
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Drivers train themselves to look at each marshaling post as the
navigate around the track.
And sometimes they fuck up.
And Hamilton fucked up. Big time.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
One of the things we demand in potential new racers is that the see,
recognize and properly respond to flags thrown at all stations.
That would be the Royal We ?
No. The actual, simple "we" as in "we who are qualified to instruct
others in race driving".
:-)
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton would have familiarized himself with the position of every
marshaling post on the track in P1, and typically, in every practice
session, all the stations put out a (usually) yellow flag (or I'd
imagine in the case of F1, display a yellow light) on the out lap of
each session.
And he fucked up.
Correct.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Basically, drivers have no excuse for missing a signal at a marshal
post/station even at racing speed... ...and Hamilton was far from
racing speed.
And he accepts that he fucked up. Fills you with joy, eh. Certainly
made the race more interesting.
Nope.
But you DO know that he went running up to the stewards to see if he
could get that penalty rescinded... ...right?
Or did that it escape your notice?
Or did it just escape your comprehension that you don't do that if
you've "accepted you've fucked up".
Saying he accepted it after the race just isn't the same thing.
Especially if you are HAM. If it had been VER I'm sure you'd not have
pounced on him.
I would have said EXACTLY the same thing.
Post by geoff
Presumably at the time he didn't realise that he had missed the
'flags'and thought there was some point in debating or clarifying what
had happened. If he had seen them, he wouldn't have bothered appealing.
But it was HIS JOB to see them.
Post by geoff
And if he had seen the flags (and/or the team hadn't alerted him), he
wouldn't have pitted.
But chiefly his error, and to a much lesser degree that of the team, for
missing them.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing
with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the pitlane is
closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and Hamilton
should have been aware of their location.

As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the teams
in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously it is
also in what forms part of the race director's event notes, which is
used for the drivers' meeting."'

<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
CS
2020-09-09 06:36:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Still doesn't explain why the bloody great screen over the pit lane entrance was flashing Box, Box in white rather than Closed in red.
A blinding glimpse of the obvious!!
Alan Baker
2020-09-09 07:12:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CS
Still doesn't explain why the bloody great screen over the pit lane entrance was flashing Box, Box in white rather than Closed in red.
A blinding glimpse of the obvious!!
I don't know who runs that screen, but if it's not one of the official
signal stations, it doesn't matter what it said.
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