Discussion:
Torro Rosso good day
(too old to reply)
geoff
2018-04-09 07:05:46 UTC
Permalink
Gasly of course, and didn't Hartley do well apart from incurring the
penalty. All that overtaking to make up lost places, twice, once with
penalty and once for a normal second pit-stop.

Without the penalty TR may have done even better !

geoff
~misfit~
2018-04-09 07:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by geoff
Gasly of course, and didn't Hartley do well apart from incurring the
penalty. All that overtaking to make up lost places, twice, once with
penalty and once for a normal second pit-stop.
Without the penalty TR may have done even better !
Yep, agreed. Hartley hit a bird in qually and damaged his front wing (Q2 I
believe with not enough time to change it for his second hot lap). Then to
get a penalty for going into a corner a bit hot and locking up - on the
first lap when the FIA have said they'll be lenient w/r/t first lap
incidents - is unfortunate.

Even more unfortunate is to get another 30 seconds added to his time *and*
two points on his superlicence due to an issue arsising from Perez passing
him on the formation lap!
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/4/perez-and-hartley-penalised-over-pre-race-pass.html
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Sir Tim
2018-04-09 08:50:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/4/perez-and-hartley-penalised-over-pre-race-pass.html
OT: What typographer in his right mind could have designed that typeface
(and what art director could have approved it)?
--
Sir Tim
DumbedDownUSA
2018-04-09 10:08:27 UTC
Permalink
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/4/perez-and-hartley-penalised-over-pre-race-pass.html
Post by Sir Tim
OT: What typographer in his right mind could have designed that
typeface (and what art director could have approved it)?
Chrome users can use this.

https://goo.gl/4QsLSp
--
Trump averages six falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
Moderate! an unwitting ignorant cowardly racist and proud of it.
Dense, if you are reading this you lied.
larkim
2018-04-09 09:32:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by geoff
Gasly of course, and didn't Hartley do well apart from incurring the
penalty. All that overtaking to make up lost places, twice, once with
penalty and once for a normal second pit-stop.
Without the penalty TR may have done even better !
Yep, agreed. Hartley hit a bird in qually and damaged his front wing (Q2 I
believe with not enough time to change it for his second hot lap). Then to
get a penalty for going into a corner a bit hot and locking up - on the
first lap when the FIA have said they'll be lenient w/r/t first lap
incidents - is unfortunate.
Even more unfortunate is to get another 30 seconds added to his time *and*
two points on his superlicence due to an issue arsising from Perez passing
him on the formation lap!
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/4/perez-and-hartley-penalised-over-pre-race-pass.html
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Those formation lap penalties are really odd.

Perez overtakes Hartley, and the stewards say in their report that Perez
admits that Hartley wasn't unduly delayed in getting to turn 1 on the
formation lap (i.e. Perez goes past him deliberately).

He then doesn't drop back, so ends up crossing the SC line out of position
and gets a 10s stop go (30s added to race time).

All fair enough.

But then Hartley gets punished for the same PLUS points on his licence?

I must be missing something here.

Is it the fact that Hartley didn't get past and didn't pit that makes his
situation worse? The regulation there talks about "Any driver who is
delayed in this way..." seemingly not allowing for recognising that a driver
may get overtaken without being delayed.

Seems a little harsh, though there doesn't seem to be any implication that
Perez did anything to stop Hartley regaining position.
~misfit~
2018-04-09 12:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
Post by geoff
Gasly of course, and didn't Hartley do well apart from incurring the
penalty. All that overtaking to make up lost places, twice, once
with penalty and once for a normal second pit-stop.
Without the penalty TR may have done even better !
Yep, agreed. Hartley hit a bird in qually and damaged his front wing
(Q2 I believe with not enough time to change it for his second hot
lap). Then to get a penalty for going into a corner a bit hot and
locking up - on the first lap when the FIA have said they'll be
lenient w/r/t first lap incidents - is unfortunate.
Even more unfortunate is to get another 30 seconds added to his time
*and* two points on his superlicence due to an issue arsising from
Perez passing him on the formation lap!
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/4/perez-and-hartley-penalised-over-pre-race-pass.html
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Those formation lap penalties are really odd.
Perez overtakes Hartley, and the stewards say in their report that
Perez admits that Hartley wasn't unduly delayed in getting to turn 1
on the formation lap (i.e. Perez goes past him deliberately).
He then doesn't drop back, so ends up crossing the SC line out of
position and gets a 10s stop go (30s added to race time).
All fair enough.
But then Hartley gets punished for the same PLUS points on his
licence?
I must be missing something here.
Is it the fact that Hartley didn't get past and didn't pit that makes
his situation worse? The regulation there talks about "Any driver
who is delayed in this way..." seemingly not allowing for recognising
that a driver may get overtaken without being delayed.
Seems a little harsh, though there doesn't seem to be any implication
that Perez did anything to stop Hartley regaining position.
"Perez overtook Hartley on the formation lap, after Hartley was slow away
from the grid, and did not allow Hartley to recover position, while Hartley
failed to follow a procedure that dictates drivers who do not recover
position before the first safety car line must start from the pitlane."

(From
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/perez-hartley-penalised-for-formation-lap-error-1023832/ )

"... and didn't allow Hartley to recover position..." So Perez was being a
dick and Hartley didn't know that he should have pushed past Perez or, if
not he had to start from the pit lane.

Charlie says "Hartley didn't know what he had to do".
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Bobster
2018-04-09 12:45:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
"Perez overtook Hartley on the formation lap, after Hartley was slow away
from the grid, and did not allow Hartley to recover position, while Hartley
failed to follow a procedure that dictates drivers who do not recover
position before the first safety car line must start from the pitlane."
(From
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/perez-hartley-penalised-for-formation-lap-error-1023832/ )
"... and didn't allow Hartley to recover position..." So Perez was being a
dick and Hartley didn't know that he should have pushed past Perez or, if
not he had to start from the pit lane.
Charlie says "Hartley didn't know what he had to do".
Reading the rules, it seems that all drivers have a duty to maintain the grid order on the parade lap. That Perez was a dick didn't let Hartley off the hook.

Drivers don't always know the rules - as we saw with Schumacher at Silverstone 1994. And ignorance is no defense - as we saw with Schumacher at Silverstone 1994.
larkim
2018-04-09 12:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bobster
Post by ~misfit~
"Perez overtook Hartley on the formation lap, after Hartley was slow away
from the grid, and did not allow Hartley to recover position, while Hartley
failed to follow a procedure that dictates drivers who do not recover
position before the first safety car line must start from the pitlane."
(From
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/perez-hartley-penalised-for-formation-lap-error-1023832/ )
"... and didn't allow Hartley to recover position..." So Perez was being a
dick and Hartley didn't know that he should have pushed past Perez or, if
not he had to start from the pit lane.
Charlie says "Hartley didn't know what he had to do".
Reading the rules, it seems that all drivers have a duty to maintain the grid order on the parade lap. That Perez was a dick didn't let Hartley off the hook.
Drivers don't always know the rules - as we saw with Schumacher at Silverstone 1994. And ignorance is no defense - as we saw with Schumacher at Silverstone 1994.
Yep, sounds about right. They've penalised Hartley for not taking a more
positive action to resolve it himself, and a driver who is out of position
because they have overtaken the a driver on the formation lap doesn't get
caught by the requirement to enter the pit lane.

Though clearly the team should have been onto this too.
geoff
2018-04-09 23:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bobster
Post by ~misfit~
"Perez overtook Hartley on the formation lap, after Hartley was slow away
from the grid, and did not allow Hartley to recover position, while Hartley
failed to follow a procedure that dictates drivers who do not recover
position before the first safety car line must start from the pitlane."
(From
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/perez-hartley-penalised-for-formation-lap-error-1023832/ )
"... and didn't allow Hartley to recover position..." So Perez was being a
dick and Hartley didn't know that he should have pushed past Perez or, if
not he had to start from the pit lane.
Charlie says "Hartley didn't know what he had to do".
Reading the rules, it seems that all drivers have a duty to maintain the grid order on the parade lap. That Perez was a dick didn't let Hartley off the hook.
Drivers don't always know the rules - as we saw with Schumacher at Silverstone 1994. And ignorance is no defense - as we saw with Schumacher at Silverstone 1994.
Still, surely HAR's penalty was disproportionate high compared with PER's ?

geoff

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