Discussion:
Bizarre race ...
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geoff
2020-07-06 05:21:25 UTC
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Can't decide if it was fun or dull !

geoff
~misfit~
2020-07-06 06:51:12 UTC
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Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
I think bizarre sums it up. Other than the Mercs being quick I don't think it's indicative of how
the season will go - but I've been wrong before...

Generally F1s first race of the season is on fairly benign tracks, not shark-toothed go kart tracks
like this one. Maybe running here for the first race accelerated the pace at which faults with the
various cars showed up? Normally they'd be over a few races? Dunno really.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-06 07:14:39 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
I think bizarre sums it up.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Like your pathetic existence.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-06 07:17:38 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Dunno really.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Yet you are flapping your pie hole.
You pirating piece of shit.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-06 07:11:59 UTC
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Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
Will you make a decision?
John
2020-07-06 07:17:54 UTC
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Ferrari's lack of strait line pace is very odd considering how fast they were last year. And it's not like they made up a lot of time in the corners.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-06 07:22:59 UTC
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Post by John
Ferrari's lack of strait line pace is very odd
speaking of odd
larkim
2020-07-06 08:31:11 UTC
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Post by John
Ferrari's lack of strait line pace is very odd considering how fast they were last year. And it's not like they made up a lot of time in the corners.
Well, it's not that odd if you combine a strong suspicion that they had
something on their car they are not allowed to use any more and they've gone
for a higher downforce overall package.
Yousuf Khan
2020-07-07 04:20:33 UTC
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Post by John
Ferrari's lack of strait line pace is very odd considering how fast they were last year. And it's not like they made up a lot of time in the corners.
Yes, very odd. 🙄

It's almost like they had some kind of an illegal engine last year,
which got caught out and quietly buried with the help of the FIA?

Yousuf Khan
Sir Tim
2020-07-07 06:26:32 UTC
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Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by John
Ferrari's lack of strait line pace is very odd considering how fast they
were last year. And it's not like they made up a lot of time in the corners.
Yes, very odd. 🙄
It's almost like they had some kind of an illegal engine last year,
which got caught out and quietly buried with the help of the FIA?
Surely not 😉
--
Sir Tim
~misfit~
2020-07-07 12:17:24 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by John
Ferrari's lack of strait line pace is very odd considering how fast they
were last year. And it's not like they made up a lot of time in the corners.
Yes, very odd. 🙄
It's almost like they had some kind of an illegal engine last year,
which got caught out and quietly buried with the help of the FIA?
Surely not 😉
Surely not just last year you mean? ;)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
keithr0
2020-07-06 07:48:05 UTC
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Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
Like the curates egg, good in parts. Lets hope that the teams manage to
glue their cars together a bit better for the next race.
larkim
2020-07-06 08:34:07 UTC
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Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.

Just good to have the racing back.

I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.

I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Dex
2020-07-06 11:08:07 UTC
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Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.

Loading Image...
Mark
2020-07-06 13:14:21 UTC
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Post by Dex
Post by larkim
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
As someone who called (and still believe) it as Hamilton's fault, I am
also not sure what else he could do. Stills will always give a very
partial view of a dynamic situation.

Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.

So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
Alan Baker
2020-07-06 16:14:27 UTC
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Post by Mark
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
As someone who called (and still believe) it as Hamilton's fault, I am
also not sure what else he could do. Stills will always give a very
partial view of a dynamic situation.
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
Sorry, but on corner exit you are never completely committed to a
particular line. There is this thing called the accelerator (or
throttle) pedal.

Both cars are past the apex of the corner by the time contact is made
and that means that both drivers should be on the power. If Hamilton had
come OFF the accelerator pedal, he could have tightened his line enough
to avoid contact.
a425couple
2020-07-06 17:00:34 UTC
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Post by Mark
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
As someone who called (and still believe) it as Hamilton's fault, I am
also not sure what else he could do. Stills will always give a very
partial view of a dynamic situation.
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).

And no, Hamilton was not "committed to that line" on the
exit of the corner.

Albon had a real decent chance to win that race.
So, in an ackward way, Mercedes should be glad.
Mark
2020-07-06 17:42:56 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Post by a425couple
And no, Hamilton was not "committed to that line" on the
exit of the corner.
Okay.
Post by a425couple
Albon had a real decent chance to win that race.
So, in an ackward way, Mercedes should be glad.
I don't disagree with that.
Alan Baker
2020-07-07 03:39:51 UTC
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Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.

All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
geoff
2020-07-07 05:02:36 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the corner and
'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until pretty much through the corner.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-07-07 05:34:47 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the corner and
'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until pretty much through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to room at the
corner.

Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial turn in point
and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the turn in point.



As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton; maybe a
little more than a wheel diameter behind.

Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of Hamilton.

This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start to head for the
outside edge of the track. Hamilton is behind and Albon is entitled to
room, and Hamilton took that room away by applying too much throttle.

That's just the facts.
Bigbird
2020-07-07 15:24:49 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the
only thing he could have done was to back off before the
corner (which was before Albon was in the lead). By the
time Albon was ahead, he was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he
could have given more space without a crystal ball or not
being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's
past (before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just
give up is something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could
have tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the corner
and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until pretty much
through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to room at
the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial turn in
point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the turn in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton; maybe a
little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start to head for
the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is behind and Albon is
entitled to room, and Hamilton took that room away by applying too
much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a screen shot of
the exact point at which you think Hamilton should have ceded the
corner.

Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 03:38:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the
only thing he could have done was to back off before the
corner (which was before Albon was in the lead). By the
time Albon was ahead, he was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he
could have given more space without a crystal ball or not
being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's
past (before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just
give up is something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could
have tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the corner
and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until pretty much
through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to room at
the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial turn in
point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the turn in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton; maybe a
little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start to head for
the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is behind and Albon is
entitled to room, and Hamilton took that room away by applying too
much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a screen shot of
the exact point at which you think Hamilton should have ceded the
corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.

I UNDERSTAND it.

I have LIVED IT.

By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have finished
their braking and will be on the accelerator to use as much of the road
as they can on exit.

When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position, Albon's nose
is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not ahead, he would still
clearly be entitled to racing room.
Bigbird
2020-07-08 05:53:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think
the only thing he could have done was to back off
before the corner (which was before Albon was in the
lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how
he could have given more space without a crystal ball
or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that
he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break)
and just give up is something racers don't do in my
experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he
could have tightened his line to allow Albon the space he
had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the
corner and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until pretty
much through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to room at
the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial turn in
point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the turn in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton; maybe a
little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start to head
for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is behind and Albon is
entitled to room, and Hamilton took that room away by applying too
much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a screen shot
of the exact point at which you think Hamilton should have ceded the
corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have finished
their braking and will be on the accelerator to use as much of the
road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position, Albon's
nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not ahead, he would
still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware Albon was
next to you?
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 06:14:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think
the only thing he could have done was to back off
before the corner (which was before Albon was in the
lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how
he could have given more space without a crystal ball
or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a
hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that
he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break)
and just give up is something racers don't do in my
experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he
could have tightened his line to allow Albon the space he
had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the
corner and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until pretty
much through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to room at
the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial turn in
point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the turn in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton; maybe a
little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start to head
for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is behind and Albon is
entitled to room, and Hamilton took that room away by applying too
much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a screen shot
of the exact point at which you think Hamilton should have ceded the
corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have finished
their braking and will be on the accelerator to use as much of the
road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position, Albon's
nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not ahead, he would
still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware Albon was
next to you?
Ceded? No.

Modulated the throttle so that I don't cause contact between me and a
driver who is now ahead of me?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Albon had him beaten through that corner. Period.
Bigbird
2020-07-08 12:28:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I
think the only thing he could have done was to
back off before the corner (which was before Albon
was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he
was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see
how he could have given more space without a
crystal ball or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all
day, and are now on softs, and you are on hards,
should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that
he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll
break) and just give up is something racers don't do in
my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he
could have tightened his line to allow Albon the space he
had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the
corner and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until
pretty much through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to
room at the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial
turn in point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the turn
in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton;
maybe a little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start to
head for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is behind
and Albon is entitled to room, and Hamilton took that room
away by applying too much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a screen
shot of the exact point at which you think Hamilton should have
ceded the corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have
finished their braking and will be on the accelerator to use as
much of the road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position, Albon's
nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not ahead, he would
still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware Albon
was next to you?
Ceded? No.
Yes, ceded.
Post by Alan Baker
Modulated the throttle so that I don't cause contact between me and a
driver who is now ahead of me?
So now he's ahead of you.

Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would have
pussied out.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 18:19:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I
think the only thing he could have done was to
back off before the corner (which was before Albon
was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he
was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see
how he could have given more space without a
crystal ball or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all
day, and are now on softs, and you are on hards,
should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that
he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll
break) and just give up is something racers don't do in
my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he
could have tightened his line to allow Albon the space he
had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the
corner and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until
pretty much through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to
room at the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial
turn in point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the turn
in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton;
maybe a little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start to
head for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is behind
and Albon is entitled to room, and Hamilton took that room
away by applying too much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a screen
shot of the exact point at which you think Hamilton should have
ceded the corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have
finished their braking and will be on the accelerator to use as
much of the road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position, Albon's
nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not ahead, he would
still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware Albon
was next to you?
Ceded? No.
Yes, ceded.
Post by Alan Baker
Modulated the throttle so that I don't cause contact between me and a
driver who is now ahead of me?
So now he's ahead of you.
He was ahead before the collided doofus.
Post by Bigbird
Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would have
pussied out.
Says the guy who's never even been in a road race.
Bigbird
2020-07-08 23:28:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I
think the only thing he could have done was to
back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was
ahead, he was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't
see how he could have given more space without a
crystal ball or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that
someone has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive
all day, and are now on softs, and you are on
hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume
that he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where
he'll break) and just give up is something racers
don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator
and he could have tightened his line to allow Albon
the space he had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying
for the corner and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't
ahead until pretty much through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to
room at the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial
turn in point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the
turn in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton;
maybe a little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of
Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start
to head for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is
behind and Albon is entitled to room, and Hamilton took
that room away by applying too much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a
screen shot of the exact point at which you think Hamilton
should have ceded the corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have
finished their braking and will be on the accelerator to use
as much of the road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position,
Albon's nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not
ahead, he would still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware
Albon was next to you?
Ceded? No.
Yes, ceded.
Post by Alan Baker
Modulated the throttle so that I don't cause contact between me
and a driver who is now ahead of me?
So now he's ahead of you.
He was ahead before the collided doofus.
Post by Bigbird
Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out.
Says the guy who's never even been in a road race.
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out."

What are you finding so difficult about that?

It's as if you can't back up your own words.

You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first time I
show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your capabilities.
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 23:58:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I
think the only thing he could have done was to
back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was
ahead, he was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't
see how he could have given more space without a
crystal ball or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that
someone has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive
all day, and are now on softs, and you are on
hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume
that he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where
he'll break) and just give up is something racers
don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator
and he could have tightened his line to allow Albon
the space he had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying
for the corner and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't
ahead until pretty much through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to
room at the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial
turn in point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the
turn in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton;
maybe a little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of
Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start
to head for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is
behind and Albon is entitled to room, and Hamilton took
that room away by applying too much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a
screen shot of the exact point at which you think Hamilton
should have ceded the corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have
finished their braking and will be on the accelerator to use
as much of the road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position,
Albon's nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not
ahead, he would still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware
Albon was next to you?
Ceded? No.
Yes, ceded.
Post by Alan Baker
Modulated the throttle so that I don't cause contact between me
and a driver who is now ahead of me?
So now he's ahead of you.
He was ahead before the collided doofus.
Post by Bigbird
Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out.
Says the guy who's never even been in a road race.
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out."
What are you finding so difficult about that?
It's as if you can't back up your own words.
You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first time I
show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your capabilities.
It's not about "pussying out", fool.

It's about knowing the other guy got you, fair and square.

Hamilton defended the inside as one normally would, but Albon had too
much more grip and so was ahead by a nose when the reached the apex.

From before that point, both would have been on the accelerator, and
how much accelerator Hamilton used controlled how wide his car would go
at least as much as the steering wheel did.

He chose to keep accelerating and that caused contact with a car that
was entitled to racing room.

It really is that simple.
geoff
2020-07-09 02:08:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I
think the only  thing he could have done was to
back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was
ahead, he was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't
see how he could have given more space without a
crystal ball or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that
someone has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive
all day, and are now on softs, and you are on
hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume
that he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where
he'll break) and just give up is something racers
don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator
and he could have  tightened his line to allow Albon
the space he had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying
for the corner and  'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't
ahead until pretty much through the  corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to
room at the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial
turn in point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the
turn in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton;
maybe a little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of
Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start
to head for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is
behind and Albon is entitled to room, and Hamilton took
that room away by applying too much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a
screen shot of the exact point at which you think Hamilton
should have ceded the corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have
finished their braking and will be on the accelerator to use
as much of the road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position,
Albon's nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not
ahead, he would still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware
Albon was next to you?
Ceded? No.
Yes, ceded.
Post by Alan Baker
Modulated the throttle so that I don't cause contact between me
and a driver who is now ahead of me?
So now he's ahead of you.
He was ahead before the collided doofus.
Post by Bigbird
Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out.
Says the guy who's never even been in a road race.
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
  have pussied out."
What are you finding so difficult about that?
It's as if you can't back up your own words.
You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first time I
show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your capabilities.
It's not about "pussying out", fool.
It's about knowing the other guy got you, fair and square.
Hamilton defended the inside as one normally would, but Albon had too
much more grip and so was ahead by a nose when the reached the apex.
Early Apex maybe, but not the Late Apex, which had HAM in the way. If
ALB chose to aim for that rather than the clear outside line of the
following track, that was his option and not HAM's fault.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-07-09 02:16:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I
think the only  thing he could have done was to
back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was
ahead, he was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't
see how he could have given more space without a
crystal ball or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that
someone has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive
all day, and are now on softs, and you are on
hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume
that he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where
he'll break) and just give up is something racers
don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator
and he could have  tightened his line to allow Albon
the space he had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying
for the corner and  'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't
ahead until pretty much through the  corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to
room at the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial
turn in point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the
turn in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton;
maybe a little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of
Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start
to head for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is
behind and Albon is entitled to room, and Hamilton took
that room away by applying too much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a
screen shot of the exact point at which you think Hamilton
should have ceded the corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have
finished their braking and will be on the accelerator to use
as much of the road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position,
Albon's nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not
ahead, he would still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware
Albon was next to you?
Ceded? No.
Yes, ceded.
Post by Alan Baker
Modulated the throttle so that I don't cause contact between me
and a driver who is now ahead of me?
So now he's ahead of you.
He was ahead before the collided doofus.
Post by Bigbird
Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out.
Says the guy who's never even been in a road race.
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
  have pussied out."
What are you finding so difficult about that?
It's as if you can't back up your own words.
You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first time I
show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your capabilities.
It's not about "pussying out", fool.
It's about knowing the other guy got you, fair and square.
Hamilton defended the inside as one normally would, but Albon had too
much more grip and so was ahead by a nose when the reached the apex.
Early Apex maybe, but not the Late Apex, which had HAM in the way. If
ALB chose to aim for that rather than the clear outside line of the
following track, that was his option and not HAM's fault.
No, you utter ignoramus.

Late apexing is precisely when you get to throttle before the apex.

There was no clear outside line he could have taken. He was already on a
line which would have ended on the kerbing. Opening his line any more
would put him off track.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-09 03:21:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
No, you utter ignoramus.
oh my, listen to dipfuck losing his shit
Bigbird
2020-07-09 10:57:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out."
What are you finding so difficult about that?
It's as if you can't back up your own words.
You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first time I
show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your capabilities.
It's not about "pussying out", fool.
Still no screenshot...

So are you saying it is beyond your technical ability or that you are
scared?
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Alan Baker
2020-07-09 15:24:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out."
What are you finding so difficult about that?
It's as if you can't back up your own words.
You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first time I
show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your capabilities.
It's not about "pussying out", fool.
Still no screenshot...
So are you saying it is beyond your technical ability or that you are
scared?
I'm saying since your premise is bullshit there's not point.

Albon was along side (and actually slightly ahead) as they reached the apex.

He is entitled to racing room. For get the edge of the track, Hamilton
is not allowed to drive into him, period. And I know this will come as a
shock to you (because you really know fuck all about driving), but
Hamilton's hands aren't the only thing determining what line the car takes.

If they had been on the straight, would it be acceptable for Hamilton to
turn the steering wheel and hit Albon as he tried to pass? No.

If they reached turn in, and Albon had gotten just mostly along side on
the INSIDE, is Hamilton allowed to drive into him? No.

So why is he allowed to drive into him by letting the car understeer
into by using the accelerator?
Bigbird
2020-07-09 17:49:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out."
What are you finding so difficult about that?
It's as if you can't back up your own words.
You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first
time I show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your
capabilities.
It's not about "pussying out", fool.
Still no screenshot...
So are you saying it is beyond your technical ability or that you
are scared?
I'm saying since your premise is bullshit there's not point.
What premise?

You made a claim and I'd like to see if you will back it up or pussy
out.

So is this you pussying out and backpedaling?
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Alan Baker
2020-07-09 18:08:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out."
What are you finding so difficult about that?
It's as if you can't back up your own words.
You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first
time I show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your
capabilities.
It's not about "pussying out", fool.
Still no screenshot...
So are you saying it is beyond your technical ability or that you
are scared?
I'm saying since your premise is bullshit there's not point.
What premise?
The premise that driving your car such that you don't hit a car that's
ahead of you is "pussying out"
Post by Bigbird
You made a claim and I'd like to see if you will back it up or pussy
out.
So is this you pussying out and backpedaling?
Is it "pussying out" if a driver outbrakes you to the inside but you
just run into him?
Bigbird
2020-07-09 19:40:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out."
What are you finding so difficult about that?
It's as if you can't back up your own words.
You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first
time I show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your
capabilities.
It's not about "pussying out", fool.
Still no screenshot...
So are you saying it is beyond your technical ability or that
you are scared?
I'm saying since your premise is bullshit there's not point.
What premise?
The premise that driving your car such that you don't hit a car
that's ahead of you is "pussying out"
No, that is a straw man.

A rather pathetic evasion at that.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
You made a claim and I'd like to see if you will back it up or pussy
out.
So is this you pussying out and backpedaling?
Is it "pussying out" if a driver outbrakes you to the inside but you
just run into him?
More evasion.

Are you going to show us where you would have backed out and ceded the
position or are you too scared to do that?

Given your assertions it was a simple enough request. I'd have thought
you would have jumped at the opportunity to share. You usually do
regardless of how little interest there usually is.

I'm puzzled.

Is this the tenth time of asking and you evading; feels like it.

What was originally just curiosity now makes you look like you know you
are full of shit.

Okay I withdraw my request.

I'll just put you back in the bin so you don't waste my time again for
at least another month.

GNF
Alan Baker
2020-07-09 20:40:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
"Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would
have pussied out."
What are you finding so difficult about that?
It's as if you can't back up your own words.
You keep bleating about your racing experience and the first
time I show any interest all of a sudden it's beyond your
capabilities.
It's not about "pussying out", fool.
Still no screenshot...
So are you saying it is beyond your technical ability or that
you are scared?
I'm saying since your premise is bullshit there's not point.
What premise?
The premise that driving your car such that you don't hit a car
that's ahead of you is "pussying out"
No, that is a straw man.
A rather pathetic evasion at that.
No. It's really not.

It is directly addressing your implicit claim.
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
You made a claim and I'd like to see if you will back it up or pussy
out.
So is this you pussying out and backpedaling?
Is it "pussying out" if a driver outbrakes you to the inside but you
just run into him?
More evasion.
Are you going to show us where you would have backed out and ceded the
position or are you too scared to do that?
I would have backed out when I realize that at the apex the other driver
was running around the outside and going faster.

I would have done so because I have an obligation as a driver to let my
competition have racing room.
Post by Bigbird
Given your assertions it was a simple enough request. I'd have thought
you would have jumped at the opportunity to share. You usually do
regardless of how little interest there usually is.
I'm puzzled.
Is this the tenth time of asking and you evading; feels like it.
What was originally just curiosity now makes you look like you know you
are full of shit.
Okay I withdraw my request.
I'll just put you back in the bin so you don't waste my time again for
at least another month.
Pussying out?

:-)
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-09 23:57:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
I'll just put you back in the bin so you don't waste my time again for
at least another month.
You pathetic idiot.
Martin Harran
2020-07-09 14:59:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 11:19:21 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I
think the only thing he could have done was to
back off before the corner (which was before Albon
was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he
was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see
how he could have given more space without a
crystal ball or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all
day, and are now on softs, and you are on hards,
should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that
he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll
break) and just give up is something racers don't do in
my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he
could have tightened his line to allow Albon the space he
had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the
corner and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until
pretty much through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to
room at the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial
turn in point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the turn
in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton;
maybe a little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start to
head for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is behind
and Albon is entitled to room, and Hamilton took that room
away by applying too much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a screen
shot of the exact point at which you think Hamilton should have
ceded the corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have
finished their braking and will be on the accelerator to use as
much of the road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position, Albon's
nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not ahead, he would
still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware Albon
was next to you?
Ceded? No.
Yes, ceded.
Post by Alan Baker
Modulated the throttle so that I don't cause contact between me and a
driver who is now ahead of me?
So now he's ahead of you.
He was ahead before the collided doofus.
Post by Bigbird
Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would have
pussied out.
Says the guy who's never even been in a road race.
Says the guy who has never driven through that turn or, for that
matter, never driven in a Formula one race. Do you really think that
there's no great difference between F1 and the driving you do?
Alan Baker
2020-07-09 15:26:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Martin Harran
On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 11:19:21 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I
think the only thing he could have done was to
back off before the corner (which was before Albon
was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he
was already committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see
how he could have given more space without a
crystal ball or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all
day, and are now on softs, and you are on hards,
should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that
he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll
break) and just give up is something racers don't do in
my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he
could have tightened his line to allow Albon the space he
had earned.
At what point should HAM have decided to stop trying for the
corner and 'bend over' for ALB ? ALB wasn't ahead until
pretty much through the corner.
You don't need to be "pretty much ahead" to have rights to
room at the corner.
Albon was along side Hamilton from from before the initial
turn in point and pretty much level with Hamilton AT the turn
in point.
http://youtu.be/EHBgQw5OecA
As they both turn in, Albon is nearly level with Hamilton;
maybe a little more than a wheel diameter behind.
Before the reach the apex, he is already ahead of Hamilton.
This all LONG before (in race driver's terms) they start to
head for the outside edge of the track. Hamilton is behind
and Albon is entitled to room, and Hamilton took that room
away by applying too much throttle.
That's just the facts.
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant. Would you mind, a screen
shot of the exact point at which you think Hamilton should have
ceded the corner.
Overlay it with the throttle traces if you have them.
I don't need to do that.
I UNDERSTAND it.
I have LIVED IT.
By the time they get to the inside curb, both drivers have
finished their braking and will be on the accelerator to use as
much of the road as they can on exit.
When Hamilton and Albon get to that inside most position, Albon's
nose is AHEAD of Hamilton's. Even if he were not ahead, he would
still clearly be entitled to racing room.
So you would have ceded the corner as soon as you were aware Albon
was next to you?
Ceded? No.
Yes, ceded.
Post by Alan Baker
Modulated the throttle so that I don't cause contact between me and a
driver who is now ahead of me?
So now he's ahead of you.
He was ahead before the collided doofus.
Post by Bigbird
Why don't you just do us the screenshot of exactly when you would have
pussied out.
Says the guy who's never even been in a road race.
Says the guy who has never driven through that turn or, for that
matter, never driven in a Formula one race. Do you really think that
there's no great difference between F1 and the driving you do?
Yes. Because there really isn't.

The speeds are higher because they have more power as well as aero and
tires, but the problem is exactly the same.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-08 04:02:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Oh you have all the facts. Brilliant.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell
Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years
"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Oh you took alan out of your famous
bozo bin for the 10th time.
You wishy washy, spineless, rotten toothed,
fucking moron.
Martin Harran
2020-07-07 20:20:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 03:41:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Except that he's talking about going IN to the corner.

By the apex, Albon is ahead of Hamilton and literally right beside him.
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
Martin Harran
2020-07-08 07:39:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 20:41:09 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Except that he's talking about going IN to the corner.
No, he wasn't, he was talking about the point where they collided.
Post by Alan Baker
By the apex, Albon is ahead of Hamilton and literally right beside him.
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 18:18:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Martin Harran
On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 20:41:09 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Except that he's talking about going IN to the corner.
No, he wasn't, he was talking about the point where they collided.
Sorry, but I'll need an actual quote.

Because at the point where they collided Albon was clearly ahead of
Hamilton and there is NO WAY Hamilton could not have seen him.
Martin Harran
2020-07-09 13:47:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 11:18:00 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Martin Harran
On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 20:41:09 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Except that he's talking about going IN to the corner.
No, he wasn't, he was talking about the point where they collided.
Sorry, but I'll need an actual quote.
Because at the point where they collided Albon was clearly ahead of
Hamilton and there is NO WAY Hamilton could not have seen him.
You can get it on C4 catch-up.

At just after 1:36:00 mins, Coulthard talks about how people with lack
of experience of driving a Formula One car don't really understand the
full context of incidents like this. At 1:36:43 he says "At turn 4,
when you are through that apex, you don't have an eye in the back of
your head - if you know someone who does, let me know - so you know,
there's an assumption, especially as you roll into that apex, you've
got track position."

You might note the bit about *when you are through that apex* and
apologise for trying to call me out on this but I won't hold my breath
waiting.
Alan Baker
2020-07-10 09:28:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Martin Harran
On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 11:18:00 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Martin Harran
On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 20:41:09 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Except that he's talking about going IN to the corner.
No, he wasn't, he was talking about the point where they collided.
Sorry, but I'll need an actual quote.
Because at the point where they collided Albon was clearly ahead of
Hamilton and there is NO WAY Hamilton could not have seen him.
You can get it on C4 catch-up.
At just after 1:36:00 mins, Coulthard talks about how people with lack
of experience of driving a Formula One car don't really understand the
full context of incidents like this. At 1:36:43 he says "At turn 4,
when you are through that apex, you don't have an eye in the back of
your head - if you know someone who does, let me know - so you know,
there's an assumption, especially as you roll into that apex, you've
got track position."
You might note the bit about *when you are through that apex* and
apologise for trying to call me out on this but I won't hold my breath
waiting.
And where in my previous post did I for one instant imply that I knew
what he said more than you.

What you ignore is the SECOND part about "apex":

'so you know, there's an assumption, especially as you roll INTO that
apex, you've got track position.'

But Hamilton KNEW where Albon had to be as they rolled INTO the apex.

And he most certainly saw where Albon was when they were AT the apex.

Albon was right beside him and slightly ahead; completely unmissable.
a425couple
2020-07-08 16:50:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
a425couple
2020-07-09 03:11:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
It just seems to me, that 2 of us are experienced,
and we agree with the words from the top authorities:

from
https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/07/why-stewards-ruled-hamilton-albon-collision-wasnt-a-racing-incident/

excerpted
"FIA race director Michael Masi has given insight into the stewards’
decision to penalise Lewis Hamilton for his late-race collision with
Alexander Albon. ----

While Masi does not rule on incidents himself, he can refer them to
stewards for their deliberation. He believes the positioning of the cars
at the time of contact prompted their decision to penalise Hamilton.

“I think from what the stewards saw and having looked at it, obviously
Alex had some momentum around the outside,” he said. “And the fact of
the contact point, from what I’ve understood from their explanation,
from Lewis’s front-left to Alex’s rear-right, was why they did not deem
that a racing incident.

“They felt that Alex effectively was on the edge of the track, give or
take, and had completed the overtaking manoeuvre. So for them, there
wasn’t anything more to add, it was a quite simple driving infringement
for causing a collision.”

A few years ago I had similarly passed someone around
the outside, and I was right at the edge of the track,
when the other car came out from the apex and hit me.
He got a ticket / citation and fine.
It was clear to the Steward, when he saw the other cars
tire 'donuts' were to the rear of my wheels.
(He was a Formula C, I was in a Sports Racer.)
That ticket really irritated him, because I had suffered
no damage, but his car bounced accross and off track badly.
geoff
2020-07-09 05:51:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
It just seems to me, that 2 of us are experienced,
from
https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/07/why-stewards-ruled-hamilton-albon-collision-wasnt-a-racing-incident/
excerpted
"FIA race director Michael Masi has given insight into the stewards’
decision to penalise Lewis Hamilton for his late-race collision with
Alexander Albon. ----
While Masi does not rule on incidents himself, he can refer them to
stewards for their deliberation. He believes the positioning of the cars
at the time of contact prompted their decision to penalise Hamilton.
“I think from what the stewards saw and having looked at it, obviously
Alex had some momentum around the outside,” he said. “And the fact of
the contact point, from what I’ve understood from their explanation,
from Lewis’s front-left to Alex’s rear-right, was why they did not deem
that a racing incident.
“They felt that Alex effectively was on the edge of the track, give or
take, and had completed the overtaking manoeuvre. So for them, there
wasn’t anything more to add, it was a quite simple driving infringement
for causing a collision.”
A few years ago I had similarly passed someone around
the outside, and I was right at the edge of the track,
when the other car came out from the apex and hit me.
He got a ticket / citation and fine.
It was clear to the Steward, when he saw the other cars
tire 'donuts' were to the rear of my wheels.
(He was a Formula C, I was in a Sports Racer.)
That ticket really irritated him, because I had suffered
no damage, but his car bounced accross and off track badly.
"...,give or take, ...." . Well that's hardly compelling.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-07-09 05:55:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by a425couple
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
It just seems to me, that 2 of us are experienced,
from
https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/07/why-stewards-ruled-hamilton-albon-collision-wasnt-a-racing-incident/
excerpted
"FIA race director Michael Masi has given insight into the stewards’
decision to penalise Lewis Hamilton for his late-race collision with
Alexander Albon. ----
While Masi does not rule on incidents himself, he can refer them to
stewards for their deliberation. He believes the positioning of the
cars at the time of contact prompted their decision to penalise Hamilton.
“I think from what the stewards saw and having looked at it, obviously
Alex had some momentum around the outside,” he said. “And the fact of
the contact point, from what I’ve understood from their explanation,
from Lewis’s front-left to Alex’s rear-right, was why they did not
deem that a racing incident.
“They felt that Alex effectively was on the edge of the track, give or
take, and had completed the overtaking manoeuvre. So for them, there
wasn’t anything more to add, it was a quite simple driving
infringement for causing a collision.”
A few years ago I had similarly passed someone around
the outside, and I was right at the edge of the track,
when the other car came out from the apex and hit me.
He got a ticket / citation and fine.
It was clear to the Steward, when he saw the other cars
tire 'donuts' were to the rear of my wheels.
(He was a Formula C, I was in a Sports Racer.)
That ticket really irritated him, because I had suffered
no damage, but his car bounced accross and off track badly.
"...,give or take, ...." . Well that's hardly compelling.
geoff
Look.

A driver has to give someone who out brakes him on the inside once get
gets a lot less than fully alongside, so why is this any different.

Hamilton chose to drive a wider line than he had to and Albon was
entitled to the line he had earned. He left Hamilton sufficient room to
complete the corner.
~misfit~
2020-07-09 06:52:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by a425couple
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
It just seems to me, that 2 of us are experienced,
from
https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/07/why-stewards-ruled-hamilton-albon-collision-wasnt-a-racing-incident/
excerpted
"FIA race director Michael Masi has given insight into the stewards’ decision to penalise Lewis
Hamilton for his late-race collision with Alexander Albon. ----
While Masi does not rule on incidents himself, he can refer them to stewards for their
deliberation. He believes the positioning of the cars at the time of contact prompted their
decision to penalise Hamilton.
“I think from what the stewards saw and having looked at it, obviously Alex had some momentum
around the outside,” he said. “And the fact of the contact point, from what I’ve understood from
their explanation, from Lewis’s front-left to Alex’s rear-right, was why they did not deem that
a racing incident.
“They felt that Alex effectively was on the edge of the track, give or take, and had completed
the overtaking manoeuvre. So for them, there wasn’t anything more to add, it was a quite simple
driving infringement for causing a collision.”
A few years ago I had similarly passed someone around
the outside, and I was right at the edge of the track,
when the other car came out from the apex and hit me.
He got a ticket / citation and fine.
It was clear to the Steward, when he saw the other cars
tire 'donuts' were to the rear of my wheels.
(He was a Formula C, I was in a Sports Racer.)
That ticket really irritated him, because I had suffered
no damage, but his car bounced accross and off track badly.
"...,give or take, ...." . Well that's hardly compelling.
geoff
Look.
A driver has to give someone who out brakes him on the inside once get gets a lot less than fully
alongside, so why is this any different.
Hamilton chose to drive a wider line than he had to and Albon was entitled to the line he had
earned. He left Hamilton sufficient room to complete the corner.
I'll go with what Peter Windsor has to say. He's been around F1 for decades at almost every race
and knows his stuff.

He makes an excellent point about lap 1. (I just re-watched the same corner on lap 1.) Lewis and
Alex, situations reversed and Lewis got out of the throttle rather than get pushed wide (and Alex
was heading for the outside of the track to stop him passing).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Alan Baker
2020-07-09 06:57:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by a425couple
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
It just seems to me, that 2 of us are experienced,
from
https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/07/why-stewards-ruled-hamilton-albon-collision-wasnt-a-racing-incident/
excerpted
"FIA race director Michael Masi has given insight into the stewards’
decision to penalise Lewis Hamilton for his late-race collision with
Alexander Albon. ----
While Masi does not rule on incidents himself, he can refer them to
stewards for their deliberation. He believes the positioning of the
cars at the time of contact prompted their decision to penalise Hamilton.
“I think from what the stewards saw and having looked at it,
obviously Alex had some momentum around the outside,” he said. “And
the fact of the contact point, from what I’ve understood from their
explanation, from Lewis’s front-left to Alex’s rear-right, was why
they did not deem that a racing incident.
“They felt that Alex effectively was on the edge of the track, give
or take, and had completed the overtaking manoeuvre. So for them,
there wasn’t anything more to add, it was a quite simple driving
infringement for causing a collision.”
A few years ago I had similarly passed someone around
the outside, and I was right at the edge of the track,
when the other car came out from the apex and hit me.
He got a ticket / citation and fine.
It was clear to the Steward, when he saw the other cars
tire 'donuts' were to the rear of my wheels.
(He was a Formula C, I was in a Sports Racer.)
That ticket really irritated him, because I had suffered
no damage, but his car bounced accross and off track badly.
"...,give or take, ...." . Well that's hardly compelling.
geoff
Look.
A driver has to give someone who out brakes him on the inside once get
gets a lot less than fully alongside, so why is this any different.
Hamilton chose to drive a wider line than he had to and Albon was
entitled to the line he had earned. He left Hamilton sufficient room
to complete the corner.
I'll go with what Peter Windsor has to say. He's been around F1 for
decades at almost every race and knows his stuff.
http://youtu.be/CyMjm0pOv8s
He makes an excellent point about lap 1. (I just re-watched the same
corner on lap 1.) Lewis and Alex, situations reversed and Lewis got out
of the throttle rather than get pushed wide (and Alex was heading for
the outside of the track to stop him passing).
Riiiight.

Go with one guy who's been around and "knows his stuff"...

...but not the stewards... ...or any other actual racer who has chimed in.

Hamilton took a particular part of the track to defending going in to
the corner and Albon took what was left and got ahead of Hamilton. When
two cars are side by side, BOTH are entitled not to be squeezed off the
track.
~misfit~
2020-07-09 10:01:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by geoff
Post by a425couple
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
It just seems to me, that 2 of us are experienced,
from
https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/07/why-stewards-ruled-hamilton-albon-collision-wasnt-a-racing-incident/
excerpted
"FIA race director Michael Masi has given insight into the stewards’ decision to penalise
Lewis Hamilton for his late-race collision with Alexander Albon. ----
While Masi does not rule on incidents himself, he can refer them to stewards for their
deliberation. He believes the positioning of the cars at the time of contact prompted their
decision to penalise Hamilton.
“I think from what the stewards saw and having looked at it, obviously Alex had some momentum
around the outside,” he said. “And the fact of the contact point, from what I’ve understood
from their explanation, from Lewis’s front-left to Alex’s rear-right, was why they did not
deem that a racing incident.
“They felt that Alex effectively was on the edge of the track, give or take, and had completed
the overtaking manoeuvre. So for them, there wasn’t anything more to add, it was a quite
simple driving infringement for causing a collision.”
A few years ago I had similarly passed someone around
the outside, and I was right at the edge of the track,
when the other car came out from the apex and hit me.
He got a ticket / citation and fine.
It was clear to the Steward, when he saw the other cars
tire 'donuts' were to the rear of my wheels.
(He was a Formula C, I was in a Sports Racer.)
That ticket really irritated him, because I had suffered
no damage, but his car bounced accross and off track badly.
"...,give or take, ...." . Well that's hardly compelling.
geoff
Look.
A driver has to give someone who out brakes him on the inside once get gets a lot less than
fully alongside, so why is this any different.
Hamilton chose to drive a wider line than he had to and Albon was entitled to the line he had
earned. He left Hamilton sufficient room to complete the corner.
I'll go with what Peter Windsor has to say. He's been around F1 for decades at almost every race
and knows his stuff.
http://youtu.be/CyMjm0pOv8s
He makes an excellent point about lap 1. (I just re-watched the same corner on lap 1.) Lewis and
Alex, situations reversed and Lewis got out of the throttle rather than get pushed wide (and Alex
was heading for the outside of the track to stop him passing).
Riiiight.
Go with one guy who's been around and "knows his stuff"...
...but not the stewards... ...or any other actual racer who has chimed in.
He may not have driven a second-hand Formula Ford in club meetings but he did manage a Formula 1 team.
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton took a particular part of the track to defending going in to the corner and Albon took
what was left and got ahead of Hamilton. When two cars are side by side, BOTH are entitled not to
be squeezed off the track.
You try so hard to be relevant and to milk your budget bought-and-paid-for driving experience for
all it's worth (which is frankly SFA). It's sad really - or it would be if you didn't keep shifting
to get out of killfiles.

When you popped back out I wondered how long it'd be until you tried to assert yourself as THE
expert on all things racing. It didn't take long. Bye now - it only takes seconds to filter your
posts again, in future I'll do it as soon as I see you've weaseled out.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-09 13:58:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
You try so hard to be relevant and to milk your budget bought-and-paid-for driving experience for
all it's worth (which is frankly SFA). It's sad really - or it would be if you didn't keep shifting
to get out of killfiles.
When you popped back out I wondered how long it'd be until you tried to assert yourself as THE
expert on all things racing. It didn't take long. Bye now - it only takes seconds to filter your
posts again, in future I'll do it as soon as I see you've weaseled out.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
This from a pirating piece if shit
who steals from F1, contributes fuck all,
except to piss and moan about it.
Yup a real fucking fan.
Alan Baker
2020-07-09 15:19:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Alan Baker
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by a425couple
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the
only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
It just seems to me, that 2 of us are experienced,
from
https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/07/why-stewards-ruled-hamilton-albon-collision-wasnt-a-racing-incident/
excerpted
"FIA race director Michael Masi has given insight into the
stewards’ decision to penalise Lewis Hamilton for his late-race
collision with Alexander Albon. ----
While Masi does not rule on incidents himself, he can refer them
to stewards for their deliberation. He believes the positioning of
the cars at the time of contact prompted their decision to
penalise Hamilton.
“I think from what the stewards saw and having looked at it,
obviously Alex had some momentum around the outside,” he said.
“And the fact of the contact point, from what I’ve understood from
their explanation, from Lewis’s front-left to Alex’s rear-right,
was why they did not deem that a racing incident.
“They felt that Alex effectively was on the edge of the track,
give or take, and had completed the overtaking manoeuvre. So for
them, there wasn’t anything more to add, it was a quite simple
driving infringement for causing a collision.”
A few years ago I had similarly passed someone around
the outside, and I was right at the edge of the track,
when the other car came out from the apex and hit me.
He got a ticket / citation and fine.
It was clear to the Steward, when he saw the other cars
tire 'donuts' were to the rear of my wheels.
(He was a Formula C, I was in a Sports Racer.)
That ticket really irritated him, because I had suffered
no damage, but his car bounced accross and off track badly.
"...,give or take, ...." . Well that's hardly compelling.
geoff
Look.
A driver has to give someone who out brakes him on the inside once
get gets a lot less than fully alongside, so why is this any different.
Hamilton chose to drive a wider line than he had to and Albon was
entitled to the line he had earned. He left Hamilton sufficient room
to complete the corner.
I'll go with what Peter Windsor has to say. He's been around F1 for
decades at almost every race and knows his stuff.
http://youtu.be/CyMjm0pOv8s
He makes an excellent point about lap 1. (I just re-watched the same
corner on lap 1.) Lewis and Alex, situations reversed and Lewis got
out of the throttle rather than get pushed wide (and Alex was heading
for the outside of the track to stop him passing).
Riiiight.
Go with one guy who's been around and "knows his stuff"...
...but not the stewards... ...or any other actual racer who has chimed in.
He may not have driven a second-hand Formula Ford in club meetings but
he did manage a Formula 1 team.
Post by Alan Baker
Hamilton took a particular part of the track to defending going in to
the corner and Albon took what was left and got ahead of Hamilton.
When two cars are side by side, BOTH are entitled not to be squeezed
off the track.
You try so hard to be relevant and to milk your budget
bought-and-paid-for driving experience for all it's worth (which is
frankly SFA). It's sad really - or it would be if you didn't keep
shifting to get out of killfiles.
Sorry, sonny. But my "budget bought-and-paid-for" racing school was 8
years ago, and since then I've been racing my own car every year, and
doing so well enough that the best race drivers in our club invited me
to join them in instructing others.

What are your credentials again?
Post by ~misfit~
When you popped back out I wondered how long it'd be until you tried to
assert yourself as THE expert on all things racing. It didn't take long.
Bye now - it only takes seconds to filter your posts again, in future
I'll do it as soon as I see you've weaseled out.
Meh. I had a problem with one Usenet provider so switch to another.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-09 14:01:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
(I just re-watched the same corner on lap 1.)
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
On your pirated copy.
You fucking useless cunt.
Fuck off.
Martin Harran
2020-07-09 13:51:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
He thought that Hamilton was too harshly punished and that what
happened certainly did not deserve a podium loss. FWIW, I'd agree with
that. Webber seemed to agree too, he was nodding hsi head as Coulthard
spoke.
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
Post by Alan Baker
All Hamilton had to do was ease off the accelerator and he could have
tightened his line to allow Albon the space he had earned.
~misfit~
2020-07-10 01:58:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Martin Harran
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
He thought that Hamilton was too harshly punished and that what
happened certainly did not deserve a podium loss. FWIW, I'd agree with
that. Webber seemed to agree too, he was nodding hsi head as Coulthard
spoke.
FWIW I agree with those two ex-F1 drivers. Especially in light of Verstappen getting away with a
very similar situation recently against Leclerc which was let go and then led to Leclerc (and
others) doing exactly this ever since.

I like Albon but think that he was too impatient and put his car onto a part of the track that had
too high a risk:reward ratio. If he'd held his cool and picked his fights better he could have won
the race.

(It's argued that his car failed anyway but maybe it wouldn't have in a different 'time line'. The
coming-together may have exacerbated any problems in the car.)

My years of watching F1 have also bought me to the conclusion that (especially recently) the
stewards may have an unconscious bias that leads to them penalising 'compliant' drivers/teams more
often than they do 'reactive' drivers/teams. After all it's not good for the image of the sport to
have frequent team protests and driver tantrums being televised world-wide.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Alan Baker
2020-07-10 02:24:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Martin Harran
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
He thought that Hamilton was too harshly punished and that what
happened certainly did not deserve a podium loss. FWIW, I'd agree with
that. Webber seemed to agree too, he was nodding hsi head as Coulthard
spoke.
FWIW I agree with those two ex-F1 drivers. Especially in light of
Verstappen getting away with a very similar situation recently against
Leclerc which was let go and then led to Leclerc (and others) doing
exactly this ever since.
I like Albon but think that he was too impatient and put his car onto a
part of the track that had too high a risk:reward ratio. If he'd held
his cool and picked his fights better he could have won the race.
He held his cool just fine. He knew that his best opportunity was when
his faster warming soft tires were at their very best and Hamilton's
hard tires would be as cold as they would ever be.

Hamilton opened the door and Albon did PRECISELY what he was supposed to
do: occupy the track as close to Hamilton as he could without making
contact. Albon's line was clearly taking him to the track edge, so it
wasn't even that he was crowding Hamilton off the track.

Hamilton, OTOH, had Albon ahead of him—just ahead, but ahead
nonetheless, and thus in clear view. He is not entitled at that point to
drive any way he likes. In specific, he's not allowed to run his car
into another car.

Anything else, and you're just playing bumper cars out there and there
is literally no legal way for a driver behind to pass other than
outrunning someone down the straight.

If there is no penalty for failing to keep clear of a driver who got
where he got legally, then you are putting an end to any passing in any
corner.
Bigbird
2020-07-10 10:19:02 UTC
Reply
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Post by ~misfit~
On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 09:50:16 -0700, a425couple
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think
the only thing he could have done was to back off
before the corner (which was before Albon was in the
lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how
he could have given more space without a crystal ball
or not being committed to racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that
he's past (before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break)
and just give up is something racers don't do in my
experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that
corner, a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at
that point. As Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a
few times, i think I will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
He thought that Hamilton was too harshly punished and that what
happened certainly did not deserve a podium loss. FWIW, I'd agree
with that. Webber seemed to agree too, he was nodding hsi head as
Coulthard spoke.
FWIW I agree with those two ex-F1 drivers. Especially in light of
Verstappen getting away with a very similar situation recently
against Leclerc which was let go and then led to Leclerc (and others)
doing exactly this ever since.
I like Albon but think that he was too impatient and put his car onto
a part of the track that had too high a risk:reward ratio. If he'd
held his cool and picked his fights better he could have won the race.
Yup, putting blame, fault and penalties to one side, I do think that if
you look at his positioning and the circumstances he was asking rather
a lot of Hamilton to avoid him. Even if he had given Lewis another
foot of track, and he had plenty, it might have ended differently. He
had plenty of grip to put the car where he wanted

Putting yourself on the outside is never risk free. Crowding a driver
with much less grip multiplies that risk significantly. Doing so on a
restart when the level of grip is unpredictable...

It is exactly the kind of racing I want to see but I don't want to see
drivers rolling over.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Sir Tim
2020-07-10 11:28:57 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
I like Albon but think that he was too impatient and put his car onto a
part of the track that had
too high a risk:reward ratio. If he'd held his cool and picked his fights
better he could have won
the race.
Of course Senna’s dictum was: “if you see a gap and don’t go for it you are
not a racing driver” but in this case I agree with you - Albon showed his
inexperience by attempting a pass that was always going to be risky and, in
doing so, lost all.

My view is that it was a racing incident and I think that Hamilton was
unlucky to be penalized. But then he had a rather unlucky weekend
altogether what with the mysterious “new footage” of an incident that was
reminiscent of Rosberg at Monaco in 2014 (or am I being unfair to Bottas?)
and a safety car that let Valtteri off the hook.
--
Sir Tim
Alan Baker
2020-07-10 02:03:54 UTC
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Post by Martin Harran
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
He thought that Hamilton was too harshly punished and that what
happened certainly did not deserve a podium loss. FWIW, I'd agree with
that. Webber seemed to agree too, he was nodding hsi head as Coulthard
spoke.
Then they were both agreeing that he was in the wrong, but the
punishment was too harsh.

Thank you.
Martin Harran
2020-07-10 08:51:09 UTC
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Permalink
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:03:54 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Martin Harran
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
He thought that Hamilton was too harshly punished and that what
happened certainly did not deserve a podium loss. FWIW, I'd agree with
that. Webber seemed to agree too, he was nodding hsi head as Coulthard
spoke.
Then they were both agreeing that he was in the wrong,
but the
punishment was too harsh.
So says the expert who claimed he knew better than me what Coulthard
said without even having heard it; now you claim to know what
Coulthard and Webber said without even listening to it.

And once again you are wrong - just about sums up you and your
egotistic arrogance.
Post by Alan Baker
Thank you.
Alan Baker
2020-07-10 09:09:42 UTC
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Post by Martin Harran
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:03:54 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Martin Harran
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:39:51 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark
Post by a425couple
Post by Mark
Given the relative speeds and road positions, I think the only thing he
could have done was to back off before the corner (which was before
Albon was in the lead). By the time Albon was ahead, he was already
committed to that line.
So, right to be penalised, but I honestly can't see how he could have
given more space without a crystal ball or not being committed to
racing.
It does not take a "crystal ball" to know that someone
has gotten a run on you and has taken you.
(Also the fact they have been fairly competitive all day,
and are now on softs, and you are on hards, should be a hint).
To know he has a run doesn't take it, but to assume that he's past
(before he is - i.e. knowing where he'll break) and just give up is
something racers don't do in my experience.
Sorry, but Hamilton could SEE he was passING.
David Coulthard said that due to the particular nature of that corner,
a driver cannot see a car overtaking on his left at that point. As
Coulthard has acually driven the corner quite a few times, i think I
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
He thought that Hamilton was too harshly punished and that what
happened certainly did not deserve a podium loss. FWIW, I'd agree with
that. Webber seemed to agree too, he was nodding hsi head as Coulthard
spoke.
Then they were both agreeing that he was in the wrong,
but the
punishment was too harsh.
So says the expert who claimed he knew better than me what Coulthard
said without even having heard it; now you claim to know what
Coulthard and Webber said without even listening to it.
And once again you are wrong - just about sums up you and your
egotistic arrogance.
You just told me what they said: "Hamilton was too harshly punished".

How do you twist that in your head to think that Coulthard was saying
that Hamilton did nothing wrong?

I never claimed I knew better than you what Coulthard said, but unless
you've ever actually raced a car, I might have some insight into what he
MEANT.

Do you really he think he meant that Hamilton couldn't see Albon when
they were both at the apex...

...and Albon was right beside him...

...and ahead?

I can guarantee you that I could have seen Albon, because I've actually
had drivers in open wheel race car right beside me as we go through a
corner inches apart.
geoff
2020-07-10 09:08:54 UTC
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Post by Martin Harran
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
He thought that Hamilton was too harshly punished and that what
happened certainly did not deserve a podium loss. FWIW, I'd agree with
that. Webber seemed to agree too, he was nodding hsi head as Coulthard
spoke.
What would THEY know - they're not BAK.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-07-10 09:10:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Martin Harran
Post by a425couple
Post by Martin Harran
will take his opinion over yours.
Does Coulthard offer an opinion that Hamilton
should not have been given a penalty?
He thought that Hamilton was too harshly punished and that what
happened certainly did not deserve a podium loss. FWIW, I'd agree with
that. Webber seemed to agree too, he was nodding hsi head as Coulthard
spoke.
What would THEY know - they're not BAK.
geoff
And how do you twist a statement that he punishment was too harsh...

...into one where not punishment was warranted at all?

Is that typically what people say when they believe someone is
completely blameless?
Edmund
2020-07-06 15:54:43 UTC
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Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Almost always they let him get away with these tactic, so of course he
will continue to drive like that.

Edmund
geoff
2020-07-07 04:59:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Though attempting to turn in at that speed under braking may well have
put him into a spin and collected Albon with his rear instead.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-07-07 05:28:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Though attempting to turn in at that speed under braking may well have
put him into a spin and collected Albon with his rear instead.
geoff
Ummm... ...no.

Hamilton got through turn-in without trouble and what caused the contact
was that he didn't go easier on the accelerator from the apex onward.

Albon had him, and Hamilton has a well-known penchant for squeezing his
rivals and not leaving them room to race.
Dex
2020-07-07 07:50:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Though attempting to turn in at that speed under braking may well have
put him into a spin and collected Albon with his rear instead.
geoff
You do your braking before the turn.
Sir Tim
2020-07-07 23:09:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dex
Post by geoff
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Though attempting to turn in at that speed under braking may well have
put him into a spin and collected Albon with his rear instead.
geoff
You do your braking before the turn.
Not if you are trail braking.
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 03:41:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Dex
Post by geoff
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Though attempting to turn in at that speed under braking may well have
put him into a spin and collected Albon with his rear instead.
geoff
You do your braking before the turn.
Not if you are trail braking.
No one does all their braking before they turn anymore.

It's nonsense.
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 03:35:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dex
Post by geoff
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Though attempting to turn in at that speed under braking may well have
put him into a spin and collected Albon with his rear instead.
geoff
You do your braking before the turn.
No. You absolutely do not. Every modern F1 driver is braking until very
much after turn in has begun.

But you certainly don't brake past the apex, and what you DO do is
accelerate. The more you accelerate, the more the car will run wide.

All Hamilton had to do to avoid Albon was use a little less throttle pedal.
Bigbird
2020-07-07 15:25:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty
being a little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove
into him, rather than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed
to take the penalty with a reasonable degree of grace
(externally, for the press anyway) and he knows there's plenty
of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a
"two by two" race as each team has learned so much from this run
out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-inc
idente-soymotor.jpg
Though attempting to turn in at that speed under braking may well
have put him into a spin and collected Albon with his rear instead.
IIRC he was at full lock already.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 03:39:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty
being a little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove
into him, rather than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed
to take the penalty with a reasonable degree of grace
(externally, for the press anyway) and he knows there's plenty
of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a
"two by two" race as each team has learned so much from this run
out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-inc
idente-soymotor.jpg
Though attempting to turn in at that speed under braking may well
have put him into a spin and collected Albon with his rear instead.
IIRC he was at full lock already.
You have no fucking clue. Literally none.
Bigbird
2020-07-07 15:37:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty
being a little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove
into him, rather than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to
take the penalty with a reasonable degree of grace (externally, for
the press anyway) and he knows there's plenty of time to claw back
the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a
"two by two" race as each team has learned so much from this run
out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg

You don't think Albon had plenty of room. He had another cars width of
usable track.

I am not interested in arguing the penalty but some of the
justification people are claiming is dodgy.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 03:40:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dex
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty
being a little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove
into him, rather than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to
take the penalty with a reasonable degree of grace (externally, for
the press anyway) and he knows there's plenty of time to claw back
the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a
"two by two" race as each team has learned so much from this run
out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
You don't think Albon had plenty of room. He had another cars width of
usable track.
I am not interested in arguing the penalty but some of the
justification people are claiming is dodgy.
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left side
tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
Bigbird
2020-07-08 05:57:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's
penalty being a little over-harsh - it felt to me more like
Albon drove into him, rather than the other way around, but
Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a reasonable degree of
grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows there's
plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be
a "two by two" race as each team has learned so much from this
run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
You don't think Albon had plenty of room. He had another cars width
of usable track.
I am not interested in arguing the penalty but some of the
justification people are claiming is dodgy.
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 06:12:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dex
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's
penalty being a little over-harsh - it felt to me more like
Albon drove into him, rather than the other way around, but
Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a reasonable degree of
grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows there's
plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be
a "two by two" race as each team has learned so much from this
run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
You don't think Albon had plenty of room. He had another cars width
of usable track.
I am not interested in arguing the penalty but some of the
justification people are claiming is dodgy.
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
Bigbird
2020-07-08 12:34:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's
penalty being a little over-harsh - it felt to me more like
Albon drove into him, rather than the other way around, but
Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a reasonable
degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he
knows there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might
it be a "two by two" race as each team has learned so much
from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
You don't think Albon had plenty of room. He had another cars
width of usable track.
I am not interested in arguing the penalty but some of the
justification people are claiming is dodgy.
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
You need telling what track limits are now?
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 18:16:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dex
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Dex
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German
commentary, so on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's
penalty being a little over-harsh - it felt to me more like
Albon drove into him, rather than the other way around, but
Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a reasonable
degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he
knows there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might
it be a "two by two" race as each team has learned so much
from this run out?
Hamilton should have given him more room.
https://www.explica.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/albon-hamilton-incidente-soymotor.jpg
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
You don't think Albon had plenty of room. He had another cars
width of usable track.
I am not interested in arguing the penalty but some of the
justification people are claiming is dodgy.
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
You need telling what track limits are now?
Nope. The rules are explicit. You have to leave a car's width WITHIN the
track limits.
Bigbird
2020-07-08 13:04:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
"a few inches "

Let's just see how many inches...

https://ibb.co/RPb5XgN
https://ibb.co/ZchPj3P

You might also take a look at a similar move being made by Lando on
Perez behind and compare how much room was being given.

I think Albon will look back and realise he took far too high a risk by
cutting so close and the collision was almost inevitable.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Heron
2020-07-08 13:25:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
"a few inches"
Let's just see how many inches...
https://ibb.co/RPb5XgN
https://ibb.co/ZchPj3P
Excellent! That's pretty damned definitive and provides even further
proof of the pretentious poseur that baker's has ALWAYS proved to be.
You might also take a look at a similar move being made by Lando on
Perez behind and compare how much room was being given.
I think Albon will look back and realise he took far too high a risk by
cutting so close and the collision was almost inevitable.
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 18:38:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Heron
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
"a few inches"
Let's just see how many inches...
https://ibb.co/RPb5XgN
https://ibb.co/ZchPj3P
Excellent! That's pretty damned definitive and provides even further
proof of the pretentious poseur that baker's has ALWAYS proved to be.
Neither of them is at the moment of contact, so how much before impact
were they?

<Loading Image...

That is the exact moment of impact.

Tell me how much space there is between Albon's car and the kerbing.

This guy nails it:



"Hamilton is doing the line that he would have done without Albon. This
is the ideal line for Hamilton, but Hamilton should keep in mind that
there is a car outside.

So at this point, knowing he has less grip than Albon, he should have
lifted in order to get rid of the understeer, let the car close the
corner and leave space to Albon."

And you get that the stewards agree that Hamilton was in the wrong, yes?
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-08 18:46:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Heron
Excellent! That's pretty damned definitive and provides even further
proof of the pretentious poseur that baker's has ALWAYS proved to be.
Thanks Heron the Moron
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 18:21:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
"a few inches"
Let's just see how many inches...
https://ibb.co/RPb5XgN
And that's before the collision.
https://ibb.co/ZchPj3P
Why is it neither of the images you show is from the moment of collision?
You might also take a look at a similar move being made by Lando on
Perez behind and compare how much room was being given.
I think Albon will look back and realise he took far too high a risk by
cutting so close and the collision was almost inevitable.
And I KNOW that how far a car moves out from the apex towards the track
edge depends on how much accelerator the driver uses.

Just lift a little and your line WILL tighten.
geoff
2020-07-08 21:57:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
"a few inches"
Let's just see how many inches...
https://ibb.co/RPb5XgN
And that's before the collision.
https://ibb.co/ZchPj3P
Why is it neither of the images you show is from the moment of collision?
You might also take a look at a similar move being made by Lando on
Perez behind and compare how much room was being given.
I think Albon will look back and realise he took far too high a risk by
cutting so close and the collision was almost inevitable.
And I KNOW that how far a car moves out from the apex towards the track
edge depends on how much accelerator the driver uses.
Just lift a little and your line WILL tighten.
ALB needn't have turned in so far - he had clear space further outside
to complete his pass cleanly.

Ooops, sorry, I'm not an expert experience open-wheel racing driving, so
what would I know.

geoff
Heron
2020-07-08 22:06:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
"a few inches"
Let's just see how many inches...
https://ibb.co/RPb5XgN
And that's before the collision.
https://ibb.co/ZchPj3P
Why is it neither of the images you show is from the moment of collision?
You might also take a look at a similar move being made by Lando on
Perez behind and compare how much room was being given.
I think Albon will look back and realise he took far too high a risk by
cutting so close and the collision was almost inevitable.
And I KNOW that how far a car moves out from the apex towards the
track edge depends on how much accelerator the driver uses.
Just lift a little and your line WILL tighten.
ALB needn't have turned in so far - he had clear space further outside
to complete his pass cleanly.
Ooops, sorry, I'm not an expert experience open-wheel racing driving, so
what would I know.
geoff
Having driven a go kart, baker's an expert don't cha know.
It's the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 23:55:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Heron
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
"a few inches"
Let's just see how many inches...
https://ibb.co/RPb5XgN
And that's before the collision.
https://ibb.co/ZchPj3P
Why is it neither of the images you show is from the moment of collision?
You might also take a look at a similar move being made by Lando on
Perez behind and compare how much room was being given.
I think Albon will look back and realise he took far too high a risk by
cutting so close and the collision was almost inevitable.
And I KNOW that how far a car moves out from the apex towards the
track edge depends on how much accelerator the driver uses.
Just lift a little and your line WILL tighten.
ALB needn't have turned in so far - he had clear space further outside
to complete his pass cleanly.
Ooops, sorry, I'm not an expert experience open-wheel racing driving,
so what would I know.
geoff
Having driven a go kart, baker's an expert don't cha know.
It's the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.
Haven't driven a kart except for the occasional indoor (last time, maybe
4 or 5 years ago) for the hell of it.

But what I do drive is an open wheel race car.

What about you?

:-)
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-09 00:43:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Heron
Having driven a go kart, baker's an expert don't cha know.
It's the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.
Thanks for fuck all, Heron the Moron
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-09 01:22:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Heron
don't cha know.
Who talks like that?
Are you a homosexual?
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 23:54:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
"a few inches"
Let's just see how many inches...
https://ibb.co/RPb5XgN
And that's before the collision.
https://ibb.co/ZchPj3P
Why is it neither of the images you show is from the moment of collision?
You might also take a look at a similar move being made by Lando on
Perez behind and compare how much room was being given.
I think Albon will look back and realise he took far too high a risk by
cutting so close and the collision was almost inevitable.
And I KNOW that how far a car moves out from the apex towards the
track edge depends on how much accelerator the driver uses.
Just lift a little and your line WILL tighten.
ALB needn't have turned in so far - he had clear space further outside
to complete his pass cleanly.
Ooops, sorry, I'm not an expert experience open-wheel racing driving, so
what would I know.
Albon was ahead and Hamilton was obliged to keep clear.

And yeah: I have actually been in the situation of having to decide how
much accelerator to use.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-09 00:41:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Ooops, sorry, I'm not an expert experience open-wheel racing driving, so
what would I know.
yup, so fuck off
Bigbird
2020-07-08 23:21:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his
left side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full
car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
"a few inches"
Let's just see how many inches...
https://ibb.co/RPb5XgN
And that's before the collision.
https://ibb.co/ZchPj3P
Why is it neither of the images you show is from the moment of
collision?
They are momentarily before collision.

When the cars collide they move, dipshit, don't you know anything.
Post by Alan Baker
You might also take a look at a similar move being made by Lando on
Perez behind and compare how much room was being given.
I think Albon will look back and realise he took far too high a
risk by cutting so close and the collision was almost inevitable.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
geoff
2020-07-08 21:52:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Sorry, but no. Albon might have had a few inches between his left
side tires and the curb, but he had nowhere NEAR a full car's width.
A distance to the kerb and a cars width from there.
Nope. You're simply and utterly wrong.
Certainly ALB had way more space available on the outside than the
couple of inches of overlap that caused the contact. Without even
getting to the the rumble strips.

geoff
keithr0
2020-07-06 11:47:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by larkim
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It kept me watching from beginning to end, even with German commentary, so
on that basis I enjoyed it.
Just good to have the racing back.
I seem to be at odds with others in my view of Hamilton's penalty being a
little over-harsh - it felt to me more like Albon drove into him, rather
than the other way around, but Hamilton seemed to take the penalty with a
reasonable degree of grace (externally, for the press anyway) and he knows
there's plenty of time to claw back the points.
Since it was Hamiltons front wheel and Albons back wheel that came into
contact, Albon had to be significantly ahead and it was Hamiltons job to
stay clear.
Post by larkim
I'm intrigued to see how the next race shakes out - might it be a "two by
two" race as each team has learned so much from this run out?
AnthonyL
2020-07-06 11:48:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
It's F1, Geoff, but not as we know it.
--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?
Yousuf Khan
2020-07-07 04:16:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by geoff
Can't decide if it was fun or dull !
geoff
It reminded you of races of the 60's, 70's and early 80's, when car
reliablity wasn't yet down to a science (or even more aptly, a
technology). Half the field dropped out with reliability issues, and the
whole race got randomized.

Regarding fun vs. dull? Dull during the early parts, fun in the last few
laps.

Yousuf Khan
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