Post by keefy Post by firstname.lastname@example.org Post by keefy Post by email@example.com Post by keefy Post by firstname.lastname@example.org Post by keefy Post by email@example.com Post by keefy Post by Alan Baker Post by keefy Post by Alan Baker Post by keefy Post by . Post by ~misfit~ Post by leonard hofstatder
Nice piece, I did not know this.
" ! The uploader has not made this video available in
your country." I'm in New Zealand. Fooking HBO.
There are SOOO many ways around this, from installing
extensions in Chrome or Firefox (Proxmate, Hola,
Stealthy ...), to using Opera or Epic with their native,
built-in, browser only VPNs, to mention but a few.
And the whole point of the Internet always was ....... to
share information with people only in certain countries?
I know it is not your fault nor that of the OP but it
annoys me greatly that the resource that we know as the
Internet, which was always intended to be available to
everyone is becoming so restricted in availability.
I'm sorry, but that's specious.
I don't even know what that word means!
Then I suggest the purchase of a dictionary, because the
superficially plausible, but actually wrong: a specious argument.'
Thank you for the explanation, however I do not believe it is wrong.
Post by Alan Baker Post by keefy Post by Alan Baker
The Internet IS available.
Or at least parts of it! I have read that a lot of people,
by which I mean those living in big countries like China,
are unable to access large amounts of it due to the
government of such countries blocking a lot of it.
Post by Alan Baker
That doesn't mean that every individual and business isn't
free to decide for him/itself with whom they wish to share
I do not believe this was the intention of the originators
of the Internet. Nothing I have read makes me think they
intended information should only be available to chosen
users. And what is it about Nicolas Hamilton that people in
so many countries should not be allowed to know? I do not
know because I do not use VPN or anything similar. Why
should I? Do you know what the letters WWW stand for,
particularly the first one? Ever heard of globalisation? Or
do you think it should only apply if you happen to be in a
certain part of the globe?
The originator of the Internet was the US government, who
were looking for a method of communication between their
military installations that would remain whole even after
extensive damage due to nuclear war.
Wrong, that was ARPA net from which the Internet was
developed. It only existed in America as far as I am aware so
the Inter part would not have applied.
The ARPA net is why the networking protocols are in the public
domain. Paid for by the tax payer and not deemed to be a
strategic weapon. ARPA net slowly grew into the Internet. Read
Clifford Stoll's "The Cuckoo's Egg" for a look at a pre-web
Post by keefy Post by Alan Baker
Bottom line: the people who create something get to choose
what to do with it. The Internet doesn't change that basic
So do you believe the Internet is so different from other
types of media? For instance if you publish an article in a
or magazine everyone who reads that newspaper or magazine can
read the article. But if you publish it to the Internet you
can choose who you allow to read it.
You sell the magazine. You know that some copies will end up
in doctor's waiting rooms, but you still get money for it. And
you can enforce copyright: If, for example, James Allen lifts
an interview from Joe Saward's mag, Saward has a claim.
My point has nothing to do with money and I do not think it is a
copyright issue. I have reiterated it and tried to make it
clear in my response to Alan Baker. It is purely about
You're right, you didn't make it about money. But it is about
ownership and control, about rights. And we don't have some
automatic right to that material just because it's been
distributed on a segment of the Internet. And there's the greater
point, and it comes up all the time in
many place, and Alan goes to that to. There is not some promise,
implied or stated, that the Internet is supposed to make
information freely available (in either sense of the word).
Really? And yet my reading has led me to believe that *was* the
whole idea of the Internet in the beginning. The full and frank
exchange or information between *everyone*.
I've read claims like this before. But nobody ever seems to quote
some organisation or some prominent engineer who said that the
Internet MUST be used for that purpose, was CONCEIVED to that end.
That's probably because there was no such aim, nor any original
idea that what became the Internet would become so pervasive.
Post by keefy
What is your understanding of why
ARPAnet developed into Internet and the ideals of those who
carried out that development?
Did I say there were ideals? That's what I don't find: somebody
who conceived this massive global network and proclaimed some
lofty ideals that it must serve. It's like discussing the motivation
or philosophy behind
evolution. There isn't one, and it's not required that there be
It is not like "evolution" as what most people think of as
evolution is a natural process not one driven by humans.
That's not what I said.
Post by keefy
When people put effort into
something there is a reason they do it. Those were the ideals I was
This should be easily dealt with. I have said that I have not come
across any such statement of intent, and added that this is probably
because what we now have isn't what was planned. I don't believe
anybody dreamed up this globe spanning network of domains and the
connections between them and announced some lofty intent. Now, it's
hard for me to prove that nobody said something that I
don't recall ever being said. The resolution to all of this should be
simple enough, though. Your
position is opposite to mine, you assert that there was some such
intent, that the Internet was always intended to serve or realise
certain ideals. That being the case, all that would be necessary is
to find that statement of intent. Not a Lennonesque vision that
somebody had, but an organisation, or spokesperson thereof, that set
out to build the Internet as we know it, stating those aims.
You appear to be looking for an absolute statement set in stone which,
as you suggest, probably does not exist. But what that statement would
be, if it existed, is what I have learnt is the case. You call it
Lennonesque, I know nothing of Lennon except that he was a member of
the Beatles, if that is the Lennon you allude to. I think that in the
times of the Internet being developed everything did not have to be
so well defined as now. So yes, people did do good work with a broad
vision but perhaps no well defined aim recorded in writing. And my
learning leads me to believe they *did* have the vision of lots of
domains spread across the globe all connected via the Internet. What
they did not envisage was the greed and thirst for control of 21st
century society. My own opinion is that these traits are led by USA
and Europe and the more industrialised and wealthy countries in the
world. And that is where the ideals, which I happen to think are very
admirable, are being put to their death.
internet' and the 'world wide web'. Before the web the internet was
difficult to navigate for a layperson, the web fixed that to a large degree.
Also there was a founding vision for the web.
something that used those protocols to enable non-geeks access. Others seem
to use the terms interchagably. However I remember when the web took off and
it was a massive change. Before that I only really used my internet
connection for email and usenet.