Discussion:
OT - View from Open Wheeler Cockpit
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CS
2020-06-30 09:32:45 UTC
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Slightly OT but an open wheeler driver should be able to answer - Alan Baker??
Just wondering how much head movement there is when firmly strapped in and racing??
Ie can one move to the side slightly to look over the edge and the curbs etc??
I imagine that with the straps and g forces, there is very little latitude to voluntarily move the head about. Indeed, from bob runs, I reckon it takes much strength just to keep head centered, let alone move it around to change curb view.
Thanks.
geoff
2020-06-30 10:23:06 UTC
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Post by CS
Slightly OT but an open wheeler driver should be able to answer - Alan Baker??
Just wondering how much head movement there is when firmly strapped in and racing??
Ie can one move to the side slightly to look over the edge and the curbs etc??
I imagine that with the straps and g forces, there is very little latitude to voluntarily move the head about. Indeed, from bob runs, I reckon it takes much strength just to keep head centered, let alone move it around to change curb view.
Thanks.
A waste of energy and strength to fight it, rest head on the *outside*
side, if any support there.

geoff
CS
2020-06-30 16:59:48 UTC
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A waste of energy and strength to fight it,...
Agree, but I wasn't asking that. I was asking what could be achieved??
Alan Baker
2020-06-30 17:50:55 UTC
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Post by CS
Slightly OT but an open wheeler driver should be able to answer - Alan Baker??
Happy to!
Post by CS
Just wondering how much head movement there is when firmly strapped in and racing??
There is a small amount of movement; perhaps 15 degrees rotation. You
get some more if you use a head restraint with a sliding tether.
Post by CS
Ie can one move to the side slightly to look over the edge and the curbs etc??
Not really, but that's more a function of how low one sits in a modern
open wheeler.

<https://martinsactionphotography.smugmug.com/2019-SCCBC-Race-6-Sunday-October-13-2019/i-XT2xnvq/A>

As you can see, the edge of the helmet is below the top rails of the
cockpit.
Post by CS
I imagine that with the straps and g forces, there is very little
latitude to voluntarily move the head about. Indeed, from bob runs,
I reckon it takes much strength just to keep head centered, let alone
move it around to change curb view. Thanks.
With no ability to "look over" the edge, the cars with significant
downforce (and therefore lateral gs) will typically add a head surround
that almost entirely fills the small gap between the top rails and your
helmet. That gives you something to lean against.
CS
2020-06-30 22:11:04 UTC
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Thanks.
It is actually to do with sim racing and the debate over realism. Many use the TV camera view, i.e. sat on the airbox. And they get faster times. I say cockpit view should be used, which I do. But I get a counter that in a real car, one can move around to see more. Which I reckon is pap. The 15 degrees corresponds to the 15 degrees "look to apex" I use.
Alan Baker
2020-06-30 23:49:34 UTC
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Thanks. It is actually to do with sim racing and the debate over
realism. Many use the TV camera view, i.e. sat on the airbox. And
they get faster times. I say cockpit view should be used, which I do.
But I get a counter that in a real car, one can move around to see
more. Which I reckon is pap. The 15 degrees corresponds to the 15
degrees "look to apex" I use.
Well as someone who has done both sim racing and real racing, you can
tell your competitors that you're right and they're wrong.

You cannot lean your head or somehow crane your neck enough to see even
close to where your tires are in relation to the curbs.

We had this discussion a few years back about how much of their front
wing F1 drivers can see, and I pointed out then that the reason you see
the yellow line painted out beyond the edge of each start location is
that the drivers can't see anything closer to the car:

<https://www.google.com/search?q=f1+grid+box+yellow+line>

Check out this:


CS
2020-07-01 12:10:57 UTC
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Same for helicopter long sight lines on ship flightdecks.
Calum
2020-07-03 22:11:30 UTC
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Post by CS
Thanks.
It is actually to do with sim racing and the debate over realism. Many use the TV camera view, i.e. sat on the airbox. And they get faster times. I say cockpit view should be used, which I do. But I get a counter that in a real car, one can move around to see more.
You may not be able to move your head much, but your peripheral vision
in a car, even with a helmet on, is a lot more than you get in a typical
cockpit view on a single screen racing sim.
Alan Baker
2020-07-04 00:26:12 UTC
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Post by Calum
Post by CS
Thanks.
It is actually to do with sim racing and the debate over realism. Many
use the TV camera view, i.e. sat on the airbox. And they get faster
times. I say cockpit view should be used, which I do. But I get a
counter that in a real car, one can move around to see more.
You may not be able to move your head much, but your peripheral vision
in a car, even with a helmet on, is a lot more than you get in a typical
cockpit view on a single screen racing sim.
True enough.

But don't forget that with ever more stringent safety standards for
helmets, the eye port has tended to get smaller and that does affect
one's peripheral vision.

:-)
CS
2020-07-04 07:24:37 UTC
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Post by Calum
You may not be able to move your head much, but your peripheral vision
in a car, even with a helmet on, is a lot more than you get in a typical
cockpit view on a single screen racing sim.
Peripheral vision may be better. But if one is looking ahead to aim at a corner curb, then peripheral is not much help. It is the 5-10 degrees of the central vision that will be used. PV great for car coming up alongside.
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