Discussion:
Todt wants F1 refuelling
(too old to reply)
build
2019-07-13 03:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/

Last Weekend

If you watch just inside the garage door the fire runs back into the garage and up the fuel tower. Footage showing that has been cut. It was a scary moment.

build
t***@gmail.com
2019-07-13 05:10:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by build
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/
Last Weekend
http://youtu.be/Apf_cW-WTf0
If you watch just inside the garage door the fire runs back into the garage and up the fuel tower. Footage showing that has been cut. It was a scary moment.
build
Why bring it back if it is not needed.
More hydrocarbon mess. And dangerous.
t***@gmail.com
2019-07-13 05:17:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by build
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/
Last Weekend
http://youtu.be/Apf_cW-WTf0
If you watch just inside the garage door the fire runs back into the garage and up the fuel tower. Footage showing that has been cut. It was a scary moment.
build
todt is loosing his mind
Out Cider
2019-07-14 00:01:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by build
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/
Last Weekend
http://youtu.be/Apf_cW-WTf0
If you watch just inside the garage door the fire runs back into the
garage and up the fuel tower. Footage showing that has been cut. It
was a scary moment.
build
todt is loosing his mind
As is anyone who writes a reply to one message more than one time.
--
OutCider
Bigbird
2019-07-13 10:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by build
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/
Good discussion between Ant Davidson and Jenson Button (et al).
--
Trump fact check:
The grand total as of Sunday: 4,913 false claims
Last week’s total: 31 false claims
That’s the 75th-worst week of his presidency out of 116 weeks so far.
John
2019-07-13 22:45:29 UTC
Permalink
As much as F1 needs to be a better show, refueling doesn't seem to be one of the needed changes.
Sir Tim
2019-07-13 23:26:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
As much as F1 needs to be a better show, refueling doesn't seem to be one
of the needed changes.
A bloody stupid idea that would add nothing to the show except the
possibility of seeing drivers and pit crew incinerated.
--
Sir Tim
~misfit~
2019-07-14 02:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sir Tim
Post by John
As much as F1 needs to be a better show, refueling doesn't seem to be one
of the needed changes.
A bloody stupid idea that would add nothing to the show except the
possibility of seeing drivers and pit crew incinerated.
I also think it's not the best idea but it wouldn't 'add nothing' to the show. The cars would be
quite a bit lighter so faster and it's likely that those old track records from the V10 / V8 days
that still stand would finally tumble. (Especially those that were set when refueling was part of
the race so the cars were lighter than the current cars.)

It's not good for the image of the ('pinnacle of technology') formula when the latest cars aren't
as fast as the cars from a decade ago. Having smaller fuel cells / shorter stints would likely
change that. It would also add another layer to race strategy that could possibly engage fans more
- or confuse them more depending on their level of 'fandom'.

Then you have to consider that the franchise owners are American now and refueling is an integral
part of most high profile American racing series so it might make the formula more familiar feeling
to a US audience (and add a sense of danger to attract the ghouls).

Another perhaps unseen benefit is that we might finally get rid of the farcical frangible tyres /
two compound rule (designed to make the teams consider more frequent stops and use non-optimal
rubber) and see non-artificial race strategies instead. At least then there maybe wouldn't be kilos
and kilos of petrochemicals getting scattered off-line every weekend and perhaps more of the track
would be usable for racing as a result?

I acknowledge that most of that is speculation but sometimes the ultimate results of changes aren't
immediately obvious.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
~misfit~
2019-07-14 02:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Sir Tim
Post by John
As much as F1 needs to be a better show, refueling doesn't seem to be one
of the needed changes.
A bloody stupid idea that would add nothing to the show except the
possibility of seeing drivers and pit crew incinerated.
I also think it's not the best idea but it wouldn't 'add nothing' to the show. The cars would be
quite a bit lighter so faster and it's likely that those old track records from the V10 / V8 days
that still stand would finally tumble. (Especially those that were set when refueling was part of
the race so the cars were lighter than the current cars.)
It's not good for the image of the ('pinnacle of technology') formula when the latest cars aren't
as fast as the cars from a decade ago. Having smaller fuel cells / shorter stints would likely
change that. It would also add another layer to race strategy that could possibly engage fans more
- or confuse them more depending on their level of 'fandom'.
Then you have to consider that the franchise owners are American now and refueling is an integral
part of most high profile American racing series so it might make the formula more familiar feeling
to a US audience (and add a sense of danger to attract the ghouls).
Another perhaps unseen benefit is that we might finally get rid of the farcical frangible tyres /
two compound rule (designed to make the teams consider more frequent stops and use non-optimal
rubber) and see non-artificial race strategies instead. At least then there maybe wouldn't be kilos
and kilos of petrochemicals getting scattered off-line every weekend and perhaps more of the track
would be usable for racing as a result?
I acknowledge that most of that is speculation but sometimes the ultimate results of changes aren't
immediately obvious.
I'd just like to point out that Pirelli were asked to make a frangible tyre in 2011, the year after
refueling was last banned in F1, ostensibly to improve the show / compensate for no refueling and
force pitstops. I for one would be very happy to see the back of that decision.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
John
2019-07-14 19:57:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Sir Tim
Post by John
As much as F1 needs to be a better show, refueling doesn't seem to be one
of the needed changes.
A bloody stupid idea that would add nothing to the show except the
possibility of seeing drivers and pit crew incinerated.
I also think it's not the best idea but it wouldn't 'add nothing' to the show. The cars would be
quite a bit lighter so faster and it's likely that those old track records from the V10 / V8 days
that still stand would finally tumble. (Especially those that were set when refueling was part of
the race so the cars were lighter than the current cars.)
It's not good for the image of the ('pinnacle of technology') formula when the latest cars aren't
as fast as the cars from a decade ago. Having smaller fuel cells / shorter stints would likely
change that. It would also add another layer to race strategy that could possibly engage fans more
- or confuse them more depending on their level of 'fandom'.
Then you have to consider that the franchise owners are American now and refueling is an integral
part of most high profile American racing series so it might make the formula more familiar feeling
to a US audience (and add a sense of danger to attract the ghouls).
Another perhaps unseen benefit is that we might finally get rid of the farcical frangible tyres /
two compound rule (designed to make the teams consider more frequent stops and use non-optimal
rubber) and see non-artificial race strategies instead. At least then there maybe wouldn't be kilos
and kilos of petrochemicals getting scattered off-line every weekend and perhaps more of the track
would be usable for racing as a result?
I acknowledge that most of that is speculation but sometimes the ultimate results of changes aren't
immediately obvious.
I'd just like to point out that Pirelli were asked to make a frangible tyre in 2011, the year after
refueling was last banned in F1, ostensibly to improve the show / compensate for no refueling and
force pitstops. I for one would be very happy to see the back of that decision.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
One of the simplest solutions would just be to use the Super Soft as the only dry tire.
Bigbird
2019-07-14 10:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by build
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/
Post by build
Last Weekend
http://youtu.be/Apf_cW-WTf0
If you watch just inside the garage door the fire runs back into
the garage and up the fuel tower. Footage showing that has been
cut. It was a scary moment.
Forget who it was on Channel 4's Qually show pointed out that all the
equipment needed would require an additional transport aircraft, crew
& fuel for fly-away races, and road transport for European events.
It's not very 'green'.
Shhh...

(...but while you bring it up has someone worked out whether the cars
would use more or less fuel during the race; under current fuel flow
regs.)
--
Trump fact check:
The grand total as of Sunday: 4,913 false claims
Last week’s total: 31 false claims
That’s the 75th-worst week of his presidency out of 116 weeks so far.
Brian Lawrence
2019-07-14 10:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by build
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/
Last Weekend
http://youtu.be/Apf_cW-WTf0
If you watch just inside the garage door the fire runs back into the
garage and up the fuel tower. Footage showing that has been cut. It
was a scary moment.
Forget who it was on Channel 4's Qually show pointed out that all the
equipment needed would require an additional transport aircraft, crew
& fuel for fly-away races, and road transport for European events.
It's not very 'green'.
It was actually during the live FP3 show, mainly a discussion between
Mark Webber in the commentary box and Christian Horner on the pit wall.
Both were against the idea, also because the cars would be always
running with a light fuel load, and would therefore be faster, which
would reduce overtaking.
~misfit~
2019-07-14 12:02:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by build
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/
Last Weekend
http://youtu.be/Apf_cW-WTf0
If you watch just inside the garage door the fire runs back into the garage and up the fuel
tower. Footage showing that has been cut. It was a scary moment.
Forget who it was on Channel 4's Qually show pointed out that all the
equipment needed would require an additional transport aircraft, crew
& fuel for fly-away races, and road transport for European events.
It's not very 'green'.
It was actually during the live FP3 show, mainly a discussion between
Mark Webber in the commentary box and Christian Horner on the pit wall.
Both were against the idea, also because the cars would be always running with a light fuel load,
and would therefore be faster, which would reduce overtaking.
Did either of them get the irony involved with moaning about the additional crew and transport
required when most teams have many hundreds of tons of luxurious 'motor homes'?
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
t***@gmail.com
2019-07-14 15:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Did either of them get the irony involved with moaning about the additional crew and transport
required when most teams have many hundreds of tons of luxurious 'motor homes'?
Oh poor you, pirating F1 tv coverage,
on a 11 yr old laptop, living off government handouts.
Willsy
2019-07-14 15:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by ~misfit~
Did either of them get the irony involved with moaning about the additional crew and transport
required when most teams have many hundreds of tons of luxurious 'motor homes'?
Oh poor you, pirating F1 tv coverage,
on a 11 yr old laptop, living off government handouts.
Fuck off homo.
Brian Lawrence
2019-07-15 07:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by build
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/
Last Weekend
http://youtu.be/Apf_cW-WTf0
If you watch just inside the garage door the fire runs back into the
garage and up the fuel tower. Footage showing that has been cut. It
was a scary moment.
Forget who it was on Channel 4's Qually show pointed out that all the
equipment needed would require an additional transport aircraft, crew
& fuel for fly-away races, and road transport for European events.
It's not very 'green'.
It was actually during the live FP3 show, mainly a discussion between
Mark Webber in the commentary box and Christian Horner on the pit wall.
Both were against the idea, also because the cars would be always
running with a light fuel load, and would therefore be faster, which
would reduce overtaking.
Did either of them get the irony involved with moaning about the
additional crew and transport required when most teams have many
hundreds of tons of luxurious 'motor homes'?
Hard to tell, we couldn't see them, only hear them.
Mark
2019-07-15 11:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Brian Lawrence
It was actually during the live FP3 show, mainly a discussion between
Mark Webber in the commentary box and Christian Horner on the pit wall.
Both were against the idea, also because the cars would be always
running with a light fuel load, and would therefore be faster, which
would reduce overtaking.
Did either of them get the irony involved with moaning about the
additional crew and transport required when most teams have many
hundreds of tons of luxurious 'motor homes'?
Hard to tell, we couldn't see them, only hear them.
No irony, really. F1 runs on money. The luxury suites they take along
are an important part of bringing the circus of glitz and glamour to the
paddock. It's not the bit I'm interested in - or am ever likely to get
near to - but without something radical changing in terms of funding
(like an enforced and low budget cap), it's an important part of the
roadshow.

I don't think refuelling adds anything but complexity and risk.

D Munz
2019-07-14 15:58:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by build
Todt wants F1 to consider refuelling return for 2021
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-refuelling-return-2021-fia/4493575/
Last Weekend
http://youtu.be/Apf_cW-WTf0
If you watch just inside the garage door the fire runs back into the garage and up the fuel tower. Footage showing that has been cut. It was a scary moment.
build
Ok, I admit that I'm in the "bring back refueling" camp especially if it helps eliminate the whole crappy reserve your tires garbage.

But I also get that it would probably be a step back safety and cost wise.

How about eliminating all the fuel capacity and flow rules instead? A team can pack as much fuel as they want on the car (within the capabilities for a fuel safety cell) and burn it as fast or slow as they want? Does that change the math? Or will we end up back in the "optimum strategy" loop?

I think the artificial restrictions are just silly. The only reason we have the tire rule to make sure there is a pit stop (for the show). Granted taking the fuel limits off does not fix that but there has to be lots of wonky math in the mix when you calculate how much fuel you start with vs tire wear etc.

FWIW
DLM
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