Discussion:
Q2 Tire Rule
(too old to reply)
dmunz
2020-07-04 16:58:38 UTC
Permalink
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.

FWIW
DLM
--
...hovering like a fly waiting for the windshield on the freeway...”
Alan Baker
2020-07-04 17:09:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
If you force the drivers to start on the tires they use in Q3, you will
get drivers making the choice to compromise their chances for pole
position by using harder tires...

...and that won't be as good a show.
John
2020-07-05 19:26:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
FWIW
DLM
--
...hovering like a fly waiting for the windshield on the freeway...”
Like many F1 rules, there isn't a good reason.
Edmund
2020-07-05 20:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
FWIW
DLM
--
...hovering like a fly waiting for the windshield on the freeway...”
Like many F1 rules, there isn't a good reason.
True, in general "they" want to bring back some artificial race elements
after "they" regulated the F1 to death.

First everything was obligated or forbidden and everything must be
exactly the same for all teams.
They succeeded, it was like a Renault Clio race and no car could
overtake another anymore.
What do elderly people do after they regulated a sport to death? Yup
they make even more and more absurd regulations in an poor attempt to
undue the results of their previous silly regulations.

We forgot most of it and are used to it but it still is pretty absurd.
Cars now drive with an obligated parachute
and have the obligated wrong tire rule.
I even remember "they" demanded a second exhaust pipe for more noise!
It must be connected to the imaginary "waste gate" that no car has. :-)

Edmund
Brian Lawrence
2020-07-06 17:17:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edmund
What do elderly people do after they regulated a sport to death? Yup
they make even more and more absurd regulations in an poor attempt to
undue the results of their previous silly regulations.
Again, you refer to 'elderly people' who write the rules. Who are these
people and what makes them 'elderly'?
Edmund
2020-07-07 13:10:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Edmund
What do elderly people do after they regulated a sport to death? Yup
they make even more and more absurd regulations in an poor attempt to
undue the results of their previous silly regulations.
Again, you refer to 'elderly people' who write the rules. Who are these
people and what makes them 'elderly'?
Well it used to be a certain Bernie but it is their behavior more then
anything that make them "elderly".

Edmund
a425couple
2020-07-07 20:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Edmund
What do elderly people do after they regulated a sport to death? Yup
they make even more and more absurd regulations in an poor attempt to
undue the results of their previous silly regulations.
Again, you refer to 'elderly people' who write the rules. Who are these
people and what makes them 'elderly'?
He, He, He!
Over on a facebook group, one person is arguing /opinioning
that the old drivers like Raikkonen, Vettel, and Hamilton
should retire to open up seats for the new young drivers.
He argued that Hamilton was 'almost 40'!

Well!!!!!
Is 35, the new 'ancient'??
Is Edmund trying to dig at us 'mature' fans?

Sheesh. Rude thoughts.
Well, I'll admit, I'm gradually winding it down.
I nominated someone else to take my seat on the
board of directors at my local motor sports club.
I've gotten 2 of my 4 race cars sold in last 3 years.
A potential buyer is coming this weekend to check out
the 3rd that is for sale.

With all the Corvid-19 concerns, and restrictions on
'social distancing', several of us that have 'experience',
are evaluating how we should participate in our shortened
race season this year.

Brutal reality, in my state, 90% of the caronavirus deaths
are patients that are over age 60. (But, kind of, on the
other hand, 52% were over age 80!!)
geoff
2020-07-05 23:32:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
FWIW
DLM
--
...hovering like a fly waiting for the windshield on the freeway...”
Like many F1 rules, there isn't a good reason.
For a good reason how about that a great qualifying lap should be about
overall driving skill that is something more than simply massacring a
disposable set of tyres to get a fastest lap ?

geoff
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-06 06:53:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by geoff
For a good reason how about that a great qualifying lap should be about
overall driving skill that is something more than simply massacring a
disposable set of tyres to get a fastest lap ?
geoff
Did you quit school early?
Alan Baker
2020-07-06 16:16:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by John
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
FWIW
DLM
--
...hovering like a fly waiting for the windshield on the freeway...”
Like many F1 rules, there isn't a good reason.
For a good reason how about that a great qualifying lap should be about
overall driving skill that is something more than simply massacring a
disposable set of tyres to get a fastest lap ?
The tires are (or can be) the same for everyone, so it's still overall
driving skill.
geoff
2020-07-07 04:55:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by John
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the
fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
FWIW
DLM
--
...hovering like a fly waiting for the windshield on the freeway...”
Like many F1 rules, there isn't a good reason.
For a good reason how about that a great qualifying lap should be
about overall driving skill that is something more than simply
massacring a disposable set of tyres to get a fastest lap ?
The tires are (or can be) the same for everyone, so it's still overall
driving skill.
More skill over the period of thrashing a set of tyres to death, rather
than with consideration of a wider overall driving ability .

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-07-07 05:35:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by John
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the
fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
FWIW
DLM
--
...hovering like a fly waiting for the windshield on the freeway...”
Like many F1 rules, there isn't a good reason.
For a good reason how about that a great qualifying lap should be
about overall driving skill that is something more than simply
massacring a disposable set of tyres to get a fastest lap ?
The tires are (or can be) the same for everyone, so it's still overall
driving skill.
More skill over the period of thrashing a set of tyres to death, rather
than with consideration of a wider overall driving ability .
geoff
Do even YOU know what you meant by that?

Using the tires to their utmost is what setting a fast lap is all about.
geoff
2020-07-07 22:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by John
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the
fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
FWIW
DLM
--
...hovering like a fly waiting for the windshield on the freeway...”
Like many F1 rules, there isn't a good reason.
For a good reason how about that a great qualifying lap should be
about overall driving skill that is something more than simply
massacring a disposable set of tyres to get a fastest lap ?
The tires are (or can be) the same for everyone, so it's still
overall driving skill.
More skill over the period of thrashing a set of tyres to death,
rather than with consideration of a wider overall driving ability .
geoff
Do even YOU know what you meant by that?
Yes.
Post by Alan Baker
Using the tires to their utmost is what setting a fast lap is all about.
Maybe the ability to do 'a lap' with no regard to an overall race is not
the criteria deemed as desirable.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-07-08 03:32:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by John
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
FWIW
DLM
--
...hovering like a fly waiting for the windshield on the freeway...”
Like many F1 rules, there isn't a good reason.
For a good reason how about that a great qualifying lap should be
about overall driving skill that is something more than simply
massacring a disposable set of tyres to get a fastest lap ?
The tires are (or can be) the same for everyone, so it's still
overall driving skill.
More skill over the period of thrashing a set of tyres to death,
rather than with consideration of a wider overall driving ability .
geoff
Do even YOU know what you meant by that?
Yes.
Post by Alan Baker
Using the tires to their utmost is what setting a fast lap is all about.
Maybe the ability to do 'a lap' with no regard to an overall race is not
the criteria deemed as desirable.
If that's so, it's a very recent development.

Qualifying on the fastest tires you can find has been a fixture of F1
forever.

Brian Lawrence
2020-07-06 08:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the fastest-lap tires
from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many things in F1 these days...)
and I can’t for the life of me remember.
So far I'm not finding it easy to discover when that rule was introduced.

That said, the FIA's World Motor Sports Council approved the 2016 Tyre
Regs. on Dec 3 2015. That included this:

"The top 10 at the end of qualifying will still have to give back the
set of the softer compound nominated for Q3, and start the race on the
tyres with which they set their fastest time in Q2 (the same rule as is
the case currently). All other drivers will be able to use the set that
is saved for Q3 during the race."

'the same rule as is the case currently' implies that the rule was used
in 2015, and the 2015 version of the Sporting Regs. confirms that.

And the 2014 Regs. did not have that rule - so it looks like it started
in 2015.

I suspect the logic was to discourage teams from sitting in their
garages for most of Q3. They seem to have given them an extra set of
the softer compound just for Q3 - which they had to return at the end
of qualifying. Since all 10 drivers in Q3 would naturally use the softer
tyre to decide the top 10 grid order, the starting set was decided on
Q2 rather than Q3.

I think I posted this link before, but it won't hurt to remind you all:

<http://www.somersf1.co.uk/p/fia-formula-one-technical-regulations.html>

It includes the Sporting Regs. as well as Technical ones.

There are pdf files for Tech Regs. for 1968, 72, 88, 94 and every year
from 1997 to 2018. And Sporting Regs. for 2013-18.

Doesn't seem to have been updated recently, but Matt Somerfield is still
active on Twitter, and is the technical editor at Motorsport.com.
Mark Jackson
2020-07-06 14:01:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the
fastest-lap tires from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many
things in F1 these days...) and I can’t for the life of me
remember.
So far I'm not finding it easy to discover when that rule was introduced.
That said, the FIA's World Motor Sports Council approved the 2016 Tyre
"The top 10 at the end of qualifying will still have to give back the
set of the softer compound nominated for Q3, and start the race on the
tyres with which they set their fastest time in Q2 (the same rule as is
the case currently). All other drivers will be able to use the set that
is saved for Q3 during the race."
'the same rule as is the case currently' implies that the rule was used
in 2015, and the 2015 version of the Sporting Regs. confirms that.
And the 2014 Regs. did not have that rule - so it looks like it started
in 2015.
This was first applied in 2014. See below.
Post by Brian Lawrence
<http://www.somersf1.co.uk/p/fia-formula-one-technical-regulations.html>
It includes the Sporting Regs. as well as Technical ones.
The 2014 Sporting regs on that site are the version issued in July 2013;
section 25.4(e) says:

"At the start of the race each car which took part in Q3 must be fitted
with the tyres with which the driver set his grid time. This will only
be necessary if dry-weather tyres were used to set the grid time and if
dry-weather are used at the start of the race."

There were, however, at least three subsequent revisions before the 2014
season began, the last of which is dated 28 February 2014 and changed
25.4(e) to:

"At the start of the race each car which qualified for Q3 must be fitted
with the tyres with which the driver set his fastest time during Q2.
This will only be necessary if dry-weather tyres were used to set the
grid time and if dry-weather tyres are used at the start of the race."

(I have both Technical and Sporting regs from 1998 forward, and from
2003 at least some of the multiple revisions issued.)
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
The Internet of Things is a system in which the failure
of a computer you didn't even know existed can render
your own things unusable. - Martin Ward
Brian Lawrence
2020-07-06 14:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by dmunz
What was the logic behind the requirement to start on the
fastest-lap tires from Q2? It seems kind of artificial (like many
things in F1 these days...) and I can’t for the life of me
remember.
So far I'm not finding it easy to discover when that rule was introduced.
That said, the FIA's World Motor Sports Council approved the 2016 Tyre
"The top 10 at the end of qualifying will still have to give back the
set of the softer compound nominated for Q3, and start the race on the
tyres with which they set their fastest time in Q2 (the same rule as
is the case currently). All other drivers will be able to use the set
that is saved for Q3 during the race."
'the same rule as is the case currently' implies that the rule was used
in 2015, and the 2015 version of the Sporting Regs. confirms that.
And the 2014 Regs. did not have that rule - so it looks like it started
in 2015.
This was first applied in 2014.  See below.
Post by Brian Lawrence
<http://www.somersf1.co.uk/p/fia-formula-one-technical-regulations.html>
It includes the Sporting Regs. as well as Technical ones.
The 2014 Sporting regs on that site are the version issued in July 2013;
"At the start of the race each car which took part in Q3 must be fitted
with the tyres with which the driver set his grid time. This will only
be necessary if dry-weather tyres were used to set the grid time and if
dry-weather are used at the start of the race."
There were, however, at least three subsequent revisions before the 2014
season began, the last of which is dated 28 February 2014 and changed
"At the start of the race each car which qualified for Q3 must be fitted
with the tyres with which the driver set his fastest time during Q2.
This will only be necessary if dry-weather tyres were used to set the
grid time and if dry-weather tyres are used at the start of the race."
(I have both Technical and Sporting regs from 1998 forward, and from
2003 at least some of the multiple revisions issued.)
Thanks Mark.
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