Discussion:
Indy car and cameras
(too old to reply)
Bobster
2018-04-11 20:24:36 UTC
Permalink
It's a bumper season here in SA. We are getting F1, Le Mans (the race, not the entire series), NASCAR, F2, Aussie V8s and Indycar this year.

I am watching a recording of the Phoenix race, with rookie Robert Wickens leading but on old tyres.

What is striking is the camera shots from the cars, and I think F1 needs to give serious consideration to two of the camera positions used in Indy - in the nose (the CAR's nose) and on the helmet visor.
bra
2018-04-11 22:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bobster
What is striking is the camera shots from the cars, and I think F1 needs to give serious consideration to two of the camera positions used in Indy - in the nose (the CAR's nose) and on the helmet visor.
Helmet cams are dreadful on Motocross helmets, though :-(

On-bike cameras are brilliant in m'cycle road racing; the rider's eyes/face and knee angles:
https://www.facebook.com/daniela.weingartner.r6/videos/vl.856434187810559/436601553197349/?type=1
D Munz
2018-04-12 12:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bobster
It's a bumper season here in SA. We are getting F1, Le Mans (the race, not the entire series), NASCAR, F2, Aussie V8s and Indycar this year.
I am watching a recording of the Phoenix race, with rookie Robert Wickens leading but on old tyres.
What is striking is the camera shots from the cars, and I think F1 needs to give serious consideration to two of the camera positions used in Indy - in the nose (the CAR's nose) and on the helmet visor.
Indycar (and CART before them) made massive jumps in on-car tech. They recognized that the viewing audience had far more untapped value than the track audience and went after it. They have always been a step ahead of F1, IMHO, because Bernie focused too much on how to monetize everything.

This will eventually be the biggest change under Liberty as they recognize the value of free publicity. Consider the loosening up of the social media rules. I don't think Bernie ever considered that there was value in allowing the drivers and teams to build and manage their own brands. He wanted it all within FOM and that stifled audience development.

FWIW
DLM
~misfit~
2018-04-12 14:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by D Munz
Post by Bobster
It's a bumper season here in SA. We are getting F1, Le Mans (the
race, not the entire series), NASCAR, F2, Aussie V8s and Indycar
this year.
I am watching a recording of the Phoenix race, with rookie Robert
Wickens leading but on old tyres.
What is striking is the camera shots from the cars, and I think F1
needs to give serious consideration to two of the camera positions
used in Indy - in the nose (the CAR's nose) and on the helmet visor.
Indycar (and CART before them) made massive jumps in on-car tech.
They recognized that the viewing audience had far more untapped value
than the track audience and went after it. They have always been a
step ahead of F1, IMHO, because Bernie focused too much on how to
monetize everything.
This will eventually be the biggest change under Liberty as they
recognize the value of free publicity. Consider the loosening up of
the social media rules. I don't think Bernie ever considered that
there was value in allowing the drivers and teams to build and manage
their own brands. He wanted it all within FOM and that stifled
audience development.
Don't forget that it's easy to get clean radio signals to and from cameras
when they're doing 22 second laps around the infield as they were last
weekend. Most F1 tracks are a different story. On a lot of the tracks they
struggle to get clean telemetry and voice communication to and from the car.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
D Munz
2018-04-12 16:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
Post by Bobster
It's a bumper season here in SA. We are getting F1, Le Mans (the
race, not the entire series), NASCAR, F2, Aussie V8s and Indycar
this year.
I am watching a recording of the Phoenix race, with rookie Robert
Wickens leading but on old tyres.
What is striking is the camera shots from the cars, and I think F1
needs to give serious consideration to two of the camera positions
used in Indy - in the nose (the CAR's nose) and on the helmet visor.
Indycar (and CART before them) made massive jumps in on-car tech.
They recognized that the viewing audience had far more untapped value
than the track audience and went after it. They have always been a
step ahead of F1, IMHO, because Bernie focused too much on how to
monetize everything.
This will eventually be the biggest change under Liberty as they
recognize the value of free publicity. Consider the loosening up of
the social media rules. I don't think Bernie ever considered that
there was value in allowing the drivers and teams to build and manage
their own brands. He wanted it all within FOM and that stifled
audience development.
Don't forget that it's easy to get clean radio signals to and from cameras
when they're doing 22 second laps around the infield as they were last
weekend. Most F1 tracks are a different story. On a lot of the tracks they
struggle to get clean telemetry and voice communication to and from the car.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
That is a really good point. Even with all the upgrades it is still a massive amount of data.

I remember reading an article many years ago on the Bernievision technology. They were basically running a fiber loop around the complete circuits to maintain contact. Sadly we never got to see any of that in the states, we have always been saddled with the world feed.

Supposedly all that kit is in storage on a farm somewhere now. It's probably pretty useless these days anyway.

It will be interesting to see what actually develops from Liberty with their OTT and to have a look at the how the technology has evolved.

FWIW
DLM
Bobster
2018-04-12 17:41:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by D Munz
Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
Post by Bobster
It's a bumper season here in SA. We are getting F1, Le Mans (the
race, not the entire series), NASCAR, F2, Aussie V8s and Indycar
this year.
I am watching a recording of the Phoenix race, with rookie Robert
Wickens leading but on old tyres.
What is striking is the camera shots from the cars, and I think F1
needs to give serious consideration to two of the camera positions
used in Indy - in the nose (the CAR's nose) and on the helmet visor.
Indycar (and CART before them) made massive jumps in on-car tech.
They recognized that the viewing audience had far more untapped value
than the track audience and went after it. They have always been a
step ahead of F1, IMHO, because Bernie focused too much on how to
monetize everything.
This will eventually be the biggest change under Liberty as they
recognize the value of free publicity. Consider the loosening up of
the social media rules. I don't think Bernie ever considered that
there was value in allowing the drivers and teams to build and manage
their own brands. He wanted it all within FOM and that stifled
audience development.
Don't forget that it's easy to get clean radio signals to and from cameras
when they're doing 22 second laps around the infield as they were last
weekend. Most F1 tracks are a different story. On a lot of the tracks they
struggle to get clean telemetry and voice communication to and from the car.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
That is a really good point. Even with all the upgrades it is still a massive amount of data.
More than the cameras that F1 uses? They used the nosecam, the visorcam and the 360 degree camera at the opening round - a street circuit. They don't, that I can see, give a different quality picture than F1 serves up, but give more interesting shots. At St Petersburg they used used the 360 degree camera to give a shot of the pit crew during stops. And they also had cameras on some of the pit crew helmets.

I doubt it's a different technology (though it amuses some to imagine that everything the US does is a bit more... agricultural) it's just better use of the same technology. You were right the first time.

And what I do like about Indy is that the various parties work together better - they see the bigger picture.
Post by D Munz
I remember reading an article many years ago on the Bernievision technology. They were basically running a fiber loop around the complete circuits to maintain contact. Sadly we never got to see any of that in the states, we have always been saddled with the world feed.
Supposedly all that kit is in storage on a farm somewhere now. It's probably pretty useless these days anyway.
It will be interesting to see what actually develops from Liberty with their OTT and to have a look at the how the technology has evolved.
OTT started under Bernie. Before LM bought F1, there had already been a real time stream from Singapore (or Malaysia) to London. Bernie did the deal with Tata, who provide the feed from the track side.

Whatever Bernievision was using is probably old hat by now.
Bobster
2018-04-12 17:32:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
Post by Bobster
It's a bumper season here in SA. We are getting F1, Le Mans (the
race, not the entire series), NASCAR, F2, Aussie V8s and Indycar
this year.
I am watching a recording of the Phoenix race, with rookie Robert
Wickens leading but on old tyres.
What is striking is the camera shots from the cars, and I think F1
needs to give serious consideration to two of the camera positions
used in Indy - in the nose (the CAR's nose) and on the helmet visor.
Indycar (and CART before them) made massive jumps in on-car tech.
They recognized that the viewing audience had far more untapped value
than the track audience and went after it. They have always been a
step ahead of F1, IMHO, because Bernie focused too much on how to
monetize everything.
This will eventually be the biggest change under Liberty as they
recognize the value of free publicity. Consider the loosening up of
the social media rules. I don't think Bernie ever considered that
there was value in allowing the drivers and teams to build and manage
their own brands. He wanted it all within FOM and that stifled
audience development.
Don't forget that it's easy to get clean radio signals to and from cameras
when they're doing 22 second laps around the infield as they were last
weekend. Most F1 tracks are a different story. On a lot of the tracks they
struggle to get clean telemetry and voice communication to and from the car.
--
The nosecam doesn't pose any more problems than the cameras that F1 use. But that position gives really great shots.

They used it at the opening race, which was on a much longer street circuit, and I recall thinking "boy, that will be great at Monaco".
geoff
2018-04-12 20:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bobster
The nosecam doesn't pose any more problems than the cameras that F1 use. But that position gives really great shots.
They used it at the opening race, which was on a much longer street circuit, and I recall thinking "boy, that will be great at Monaco".
I think the current F1 "behind the helmet-cam' is great. it shows the
front of the car, the front wheels, and where the driver is looking.

Nose-cam sound rather limited to me.

geoff
t***@gmail.com
2018-04-12 21:57:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by geoff
I think the current F1 "behind the helmet-cam' is great.
You like a lot of things from behind.
Bobster
2018-04-17 17:47:55 UTC
Permalink
They used the nosecam at Long Beach. Longer track, no open central area in the middle. Great shots.

We got something close at Shanghai from Ricciardo's car. But not as good. There was a chunk of Red Bull nose in the way,and with the camera not right at the front of the car you don't get the same sense of how quickly the track comes at you and how quickly the cars change direction.

The shot from the roll hoop is better too without the halo getting in the way.

But there's a down side to the nosecam. When Ryan Hunter-Reay cane in for a new nose cone, the damaged cone came off easily enough, but it was necessary to connect the nosecam in the new cone before the nose could be fastened. Hunter-Reay was probably not amused.
Heron
2018-04-17 18:14:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bobster
They used the nosecam at Long Beach. Longer track, no open central area in the middle. Great shots.
We got something close at Shanghai from Ricciardo's car. But not as good. There was a chunk of Red Bull nose in the way,and with the camera not right at the front of the car you don't get the same sense of how quickly the track comes at you and how quickly the cars change direction.
The shot from the roll hoop is better too without the halo getting in the way.
But there's a down side to the nosecam. When Ryan Hunter-Reay cane in for a new nose cone, the damaged cone came off easily enough, but it was necessary to connect the nosecam in the new cone before the nose could be fastened. Hunter-Reay was probably not amused.
He has no one to blame but himself. He seems to go
through his salary every year in replacement cars,
hitting everything but the pace car most every race.
He went through at least two nose cones alone in Long
Beach. Rahal is another big abuser of not only parts,
but using other competitors' rides as his brakes.

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