Discussion:
Drivers and cars
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Sir Tim
2020-07-21 16:06:27 UTC
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My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls writing that
“any driver could win the WDC in a Mercedes” so he decided to check
which drivers have won championships without being in the best team. He
defined the best team as the constructors' champion for that year, which
some people may not be able to accept, but then what’s the point of
having a constructors championship? Here’s the list:

Year WDC Driver's Team Constructors Champion
2008 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes Ferrari
1999 Mika Hakkinen McLaren-Mercedes Ferrari
1994 Michael Schumacher Benneton-Ford Williams-Renault
1986 Alain Prost McLaren-TAG Williams-Honda
1983 Nelson Piquet Brabbham-BMW Ferrari
1982 Keke Rosberg Williams-Ford Ferrari
1981 Nelson Piquet Brabbham-Ford Williams-Ford
1976 James Hunt McLaren-Ford Ferrari
1973 Jackie Stewart Tyrrell-Ford Lotus-Ford
1958 Mike Hawthorn Ferrari Vanwall

He comments that Rosberg, Hunt, and Hawthorn all won under unusual
and/or fortunate circumstances but otherwise it looks like a pretty good
list of some great drivers who genuinely made a difference through skill
rather than equipment.
--
Sir Tim

“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
a425couple
2020-07-21 18:50:18 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls writing that
“any driver could win the WDC in a Mercedes” so he decided to check
which drivers have won championships without being in the best team. He
defined the best team as the constructors' champion for that year, which
some people may not be able to accept, but then what’s the point of
Year    WDC    Driver's Team    Constructors Champion
2008    Lewis Hamilton    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1999    Mika Hakkinen    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1994    Michael Schumacher    Benneton-Ford    Williams-Renault
1986    Alain Prost    McLaren-TAG    Williams-Honda
1983    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-BMW    Ferrari
1982    Keke Rosberg    Williams-Ford    Ferrari
1981    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-Ford    Williams-Ford
1976    James Hunt    McLaren-Ford    Ferrari
1973    Jackie Stewart    Tyrrell-Ford    Lotus-Ford
1958    Mike Hawthorn    Ferrari    Vanwall
He comments that Rosberg, Hunt, and Hawthorn all won under unusual
and/or fortunate circumstances but otherwise it looks like a pretty good
list of some great drivers who genuinely made a difference through skill
rather than equipment.
Nice list of very competent drivers.
And the word "skill", definitely includes prudence.
Mark Jackson
2020-07-21 19:24:54 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls writing that
“any driver could win the WDC in a Mercedes” so he decided to check
which drivers have won championships without being in the best team. He
defined the best team as the constructors' champion for that year, which
some people may not be able to accept, but then what’s the point of
Year    WDC    Driver's Team    Constructors Champion
2008    Lewis Hamilton    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1999    Mika Hakkinen    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1994    Michael Schumacher    Benneton-Ford    Williams-Renault
1986    Alain Prost    McLaren-TAG    Williams-Honda
1983    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-BMW    Ferrari
1982    Keke Rosberg    Williams-Ford    Ferrari
1981    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-Ford    Williams-Ford
1976    James Hunt    McLaren-Ford    Ferrari
1973    Jackie Stewart    Tyrrell-Ford    Lotus-Ford
1958    Mike Hawthorn    Ferrari    Vanwall
In case anyone is about to say "yeah, but it's been twelve years since
the last one," note that it was fifteen years between the first two.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
The Internet of Things is a system in which the failure
of a computer you didn't even know existed can render
your own things unusable. - Martin Ward
a425couple
2020-07-23 22:55:58 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls writing that
“any driver could win the WDC in a Mercedes” so he decided to check
which drivers have won championships without being in the best team.
He defined the best team as the constructors' champion for that year,
which some people may not be able to accept, but then what’s the point
Year    WDC    Driver's Team    Constructors Champion
2008    Lewis Hamilton    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1999    Mika Hakkinen    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1994    Michael Schumacher    Benneton-Ford    Williams-Renault
1986    Alain Prost    McLaren-TAG    Williams-Honda
1983    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-BMW    Ferrari
1982    Keke Rosberg    Williams-Ford    Ferrari
1981    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-Ford    Williams-Ford
1976    James Hunt    McLaren-Ford    Ferrari
1973    Jackie Stewart    Tyrrell-Ford    Lotus-Ford
1958    Mike Hawthorn    Ferrari    Vanwall
In case anyone is about to say "yeah, but it's been twelve years since
the last one," note that it was fifteen years between the first two.
Yes. But the qualifications / technical structure on the
2 Championships, make it that it is difficult / unlikely
in most years, to split the two titles apart.

The results so often factor on a small event, and that
very often will throw both WCC & WDC the same way.

Idea, 1962 was a rather classic match up.
Graham Hill, a quite high quality good driver,
was in the new BRM, a quite quality good car.
Jim Clark was also having a good year. Clark in his
Lotus was most often quicker, but DNFed almost
half the time.
Hill, and his BRM, both had substantial leads in their
championships, but IF Clark and his Lotus could win
at South Africa, they each would win championships.
Clark led the race until lap 62, an oil leak from
a small part, put them out.
Both Hill and his BRM were worthy champions and well matched.

In 1963 and 1965 the Lotus had a good finishing record, and
so it, and Jim Clark easily won their championships.

In 1964 it was a very close 3 way fight, Hill in BRM,
Clark in Lotus, and Surtees in Ferrari all (6) could
have won their championships in Mexico the last race.
Small things = Bandini's Ferrari hit Hill, and slowed him
down to 6th place, and then on the last lap Clark's
Lotus lost an oil line, and both lost their potential
championships. Surtees and his Ferrari finished 2nd,
and that was enough for both, to win their championships.
("Best team" = all three were closely matched, but the
final results showed what they showed.)
fnot
2020-07-22 03:26:51 UTC
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Congrats to you and your son for turning boredom into a pleasant read
for others ! History is one of the great entertainments (never mind the
mileage you get at socials.)
Post by Sir Tim
My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls writing that
“any driver could win the WDC in a Mercedes” so he decided to check
which drivers have won championships without being in the best team. He
defined the best team as the constructors' champion for that year, which
some people may not be able to accept, but then what’s the point of
Year    WDC    Driver's Team    Constructors Champion
2008    Lewis Hamilton    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1999    Mika Hakkinen    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1994    Michael Schumacher    Benneton-Ford    Williams-Renault
1986    Alain Prost    McLaren-TAG    Williams-Honda
1983    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-BMW    Ferrari
1982    Keke Rosberg    Williams-Ford    Ferrari
1981    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-Ford    Williams-Ford
1976    James Hunt    McLaren-Ford    Ferrari
1973    Jackie Stewart    Tyrrell-Ford    Lotus-Ford
1958    Mike Hawthorn    Ferrari    Vanwall
He comments that Rosberg, Hunt, and Hawthorn all won under unusual
and/or fortunate circumstances but otherwise it looks like a pretty good
list of some great drivers who genuinely made a difference through skill
rather than equipment.
Dan the Man
2020-07-23 13:26:48 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls writing that
“any driver could win the WDC in a Mercedes” so he decided to check
which drivers have won championships without being in the best team. He
defined the best team as the constructors' champion for that year, which
some people may not be able to accept, but then what’s the point of
Year WDC Driver's Team Constructors Champion
2008 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes Ferrari
1999 Mika Hakkinen McLaren-Mercedes Ferrari
1994 Michael Schumacher Benneton-Ford Williams-Renault
1986 Alain Prost McLaren-TAG Williams-Honda
1983 Nelson Piquet Brabbham-BMW Ferrari
1982 Keke Rosberg Williams-Ford Ferrari
1981 Nelson Piquet Brabbham-Ford Williams-Ford
1976 James Hunt McLaren-Ford Ferrari
1973 Jackie Stewart Tyrrell-Ford Lotus-Ford
1958 Mike Hawthorn Ferrari Vanwall
He comments that Rosberg, Hunt, and Hawthorn all won under unusual
and/or fortunate circumstances but otherwise it looks like a pretty good
list of some great drivers who genuinely made a difference through skill
rather than equipment.
--
Sir Tim
“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
Interesting list; this is one of those 'you didn't know you wanted to know' kind of things!

Dan
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-24 00:10:39 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls
Sir Tim
“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
Stop fucking crying you miserable old senile bitch.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-24 00:18:09 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
My son
--
Sir Tim
“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
Did you pass your homosexual gene to him?
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-24 04:33:21 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls
--
Sir Tim
“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
Does he have any other hobbies?
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-24 06:39:58 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
My son
--
Sir Tim
“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
Are his teeth healthy?
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-24 06:50:27 UTC
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Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Sir Tim
My son
--
Sir Tim
“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
Are his teeth healthy?
I can see a dental problem in britain
when I see them on tv
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-24 06:55:12 UTC
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Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Sir Tim
My son
--
Sir Tim
“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
Are his teeth healthy?
I can see a dental problem in britain
when I see them on tv
That will not help tourism there. Gross
keithr0
2020-07-25 10:26:07 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls writing that
“any driver could win the WDC in a Mercedes” so he decided to check
which drivers have won championships without being in the best team. He
defined the best team as the constructors' champion for that year, which
some people may not be able to accept, but then what’s the point of
Year    WDC    Driver's Team    Constructors Champion
2008    Lewis Hamilton    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1999    Mika Hakkinen    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1994    Michael Schumacher    Benneton-Ford    Williams-Renault
1986    Alain Prost    McLaren-TAG    Williams-Honda
1983    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-BMW    Ferrari
1982    Keke Rosberg    Williams-Ford    Ferrari
1981    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-Ford    Williams-Ford
1976    James Hunt    McLaren-Ford    Ferrari
1973    Jackie Stewart    Tyrrell-Ford    Lotus-Ford
1958    Mike Hawthorn    Ferrari    Vanwall
He comments that Rosberg, Hunt, and Hawthorn all won under unusual
and/or fortunate circumstances but otherwise it looks like a pretty good
list of some great drivers who genuinely made a difference through skill
rather than equipment.
So, in 62 years there have been 10 occasions where the WDC was not in
the WCC car. That would imply that getting to be the WDC is 84% being in
the best car.
Geoff May
2020-07-25 14:02:02 UTC
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Post by keithr0
Post by Sir Tim
My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls writing that
“any driver could win the WDC in a Mercedes” so he decided to check
which drivers have won championships without being in the best team.
He defined the best team as the constructors' champion for that year,
which some people may not be able to accept, but then what’s the point
Year    WDC    Driver's Team    Constructors Champion
2008    Lewis Hamilton    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1999    Mika Hakkinen    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1994    Michael Schumacher    Benneton-Ford    Williams-Renault
1986    Alain Prost    McLaren-TAG    Williams-Honda
1983    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-BMW    Ferrari
1982    Keke Rosberg    Williams-Ford    Ferrari
1981    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-Ford    Williams-Ford
1976    James Hunt    McLaren-Ford    Ferrari
1973    Jackie Stewart    Tyrrell-Ford    Lotus-Ford
1958    Mike Hawthorn    Ferrari    Vanwall
He comments that Rosberg, Hunt, and Hawthorn all won under unusual
and/or fortunate circumstances but otherwise it looks like a pretty
good list of some great drivers who genuinely made a difference
through skill rather than equipment.
So, in 62 years there have been 10 occasions where the WDC was not in
the WCC car. That would imply that getting to be the WDC is 84% being in
the best car.
I'm not sure you can compare like that. In the early years, only the
leading car in the team counted toward the WCC and also, the WCC never
earned the fastest lap point.

What it needs is for Sir Tim's son to convert all seasons into modern
point system and then list who would be WDC whether or not their team
would have had the WCC. I'm sure he will have fun with the shared drives ;-)

Cheers

Geoff
~misfit~
2020-07-26 02:18:07 UTC
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My son has been getting a bit bored with all the trolls writing that “any driver could win the
WDC in a Mercedes” so he decided to check which drivers have won championships without being in
the best team. He defined the best team as the constructors' champion for that year, which some
people may not be able to accept, but then what’s the point of having a constructors
Year    WDC    Driver's Team    Constructors Champion
2008    Lewis Hamilton    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1999    Mika Hakkinen    McLaren-Mercedes    Ferrari
1994    Michael Schumacher    Benneton-Ford    Williams-Renault
1986    Alain Prost    McLaren-TAG    Williams-Honda
1983    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-BMW    Ferrari
1982    Keke Rosberg    Williams-Ford    Ferrari
1981    Nelson Piquet    Brabbham-Ford    Williams-Ford
1976    James Hunt    McLaren-Ford    Ferrari
1973    Jackie Stewart    Tyrrell-Ford    Lotus-Ford
1958    Mike Hawthorn    Ferrari    Vanwall
He comments that Rosberg, Hunt, and Hawthorn all won under unusual and/or fortunate circumstances
but otherwise it looks like a pretty good list of some great drivers who genuinely made a
difference through skill rather than equipment.
So, in 62 years there have been 10 occasions where the WDC was not in the WCC car. That would imply
that getting to be the WDC is 84% being in the best car.
Also that the teams who are top of the heap get to the pick of the best drivers. Would you like
some egg with that chicken?
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
t***@gmail.com
2020-07-26 06:59:27 UTC
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Would you like some egg with that chicken?
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
?

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