Discussion:
Hamilton on Tuscan Pole
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Heron
2020-09-12 14:00:51 UTC
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Hamilton takes inaugural Pole in Mugello, Italy.
Alan Baker
2020-09-12 14:14:42 UTC
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Post by Heron
Hamilton takes inaugural Pole in Mugello, Italy.
You get that everyone here FOLLOWS F1...

...right?
CS
2020-09-12 20:53:54 UTC
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Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do?? Faster in all practice sessions and still can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
Alan Baker
2020-09-12 22:05:01 UTC
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Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do?? Faster in all practice sessions and still can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.

That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
alister
2020-09-12 22:39:02 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Doh. The group is called Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do?? Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
I would have to agree that on those timings there is little in it

I think a more valid way to judge would be to compare race performence,
how may times has lewis Beaten bottas from 2nd & vice versa?

I don't know the answer to that one but I am sure Brian could provide the
info
--
Conscience is a mother-in-law whose visit never ends.
-- H. L. Mencken
Alan Baker
2020-09-12 22:46:26 UTC
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Post by alister
Post by Alan Baker
Doh. The group is called Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do?? Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
I would have to agree that on those timings there is little in it
I think a more valid way to judge would be to compare race performence,
how may times has lewis Beaten bottas from 2nd & vice versa?
I don't know the answer to that one but I am sure Brian could provide the
info
I don't know either... ...but Hamilton is the team number one.

Anyone who thinks that doesn't matter to the finish order of F1 races
hasn't been paying attention for... ...well forever.
geoff
2020-09-13 02:19:10 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by alister
Post by Alan Baker
Doh. The group is called Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do??  Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
I would have to agree that on those timings there is little in it
I think a more valid way to judge would be to compare race performence,
how may times has lewis Beaten bottas from 2nd  & vice versa?
I don't know the answer to that one but I am sure Brian could provide the
info
I don't know either... ...but Hamilton is the team number one.
Anyone who thinks that doesn't matter to the finish order of F1 races
hasn't been paying attention for... ...well forever.
And HAM is not the #1 driver because he is thought to be the better.
It's because Mercedes prefer coloured people !

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-13 02:43:35 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by alister
Post by Alan Baker
Doh. The group is called Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do??  Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
I would have to agree that on those timings there is little in it
I think a more valid way to judge would be to compare race performence,
how may times has lewis Beaten bottas from 2nd  & vice versa?
I don't know the answer to that one but I am sure Brian could provide the
info
I don't know either... ...but Hamilton is the team number one.
Anyone who thinks that doesn't matter to the finish order of F1 races
hasn't been paying attention for... ...well forever.
And HAM is not the #1 driver because he is thought to be the better.
It's because Mercedes prefer coloured people !
I didn't say that. Nor do I think it.

He's just not that much better than Bottas.

So if Hamilton is supposed to be the GOAT, what does that make Bottas,
and do you believe it?
geoff
2020-09-13 06:26:24 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
I didn't say that. Nor do I think it.
He's just not that much better than Bottas.
So if Hamilton is supposed to be the GOAT, what does that make Bottas,
and do you believe it?
It seems to be mainly you who has this GOAT thing....

geoff
Bigbird
2020-09-13 14:00:15 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
He's just not that much better than Bottas.
Yes he is. Bottas's race performance has been reactively poor.
Post by Alan Baker
So if Hamilton is supposed to be the GOAT, what does that make
Bottas, and do you believe it?
Is he supposed to be the GOAT.

That what "they say" is it.

You do like your straw men.
--
Bozo bin
Texasgate
Heron
Enjoy!
Brian Lawrence
2020-09-14 02:20:03 UTC
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Post by alister
Post by Alan Baker
Doh. The group is called Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do??  Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
I would have to agree that on those timings there is little in it
I think a more valid way to judge would be to compare race performence,
how may times has lewis Beaten bottas from 2nd  & vice versa?
I don't know the answer to that one but I am sure Brian could provide
the info
I'm not going to analyse it all, but here is the data.

They have been team-mates since 2017, 71 GPs.

No. of wins:

HAM 37
VET 11
BOT 8
VER 8
RIC 3
LEC 2
RAI 1
GAS 1

Poles:

HAM 34
BOT 13
VET 11
LEC 7
RIC 2
RAI 2
VER 2

Hamilton & Bottas have started from the front row together 25 times,
HAM was on pole 16 times and BOT 5 times.

2017 season

Grid Race
GP HAM BOT FRow HAM BOT Won
===================================================
AUS 1 3 2 3 VET
CHN 1 3 1 6 HAM
BHR 2 1 @ 2 3 VET
RUS 4 3 4 1 BOT
ESP 1 3 1 DNF HAM
MON 13 3 7 4 VET
CDN 1 3 1 2 HAM
AZB 1 2 @ 5 2 RIC
AUT 8 1 4 1 BOT
GBR 1 9 1 2 HAM
HUN 4 3 4 3 VET
BEL 1 3 1 5 HAM
ITA 1 4 1 2 HAM
SIN 5 6 1 3 HAM
MAS 1 5 2 5 VER
JPN 1 6 1 4 HAM
USA 1 3 1 5 HAM
MEX 3 4 9 2 VER
BRA 20 1 4 2 VET
ABD 2 1 @ 2 1 BOT

Grid penalties

HAM AUT, 5-place; BRA, pitlane start
BOT GBR & JPN, both 5-place

2018

AUS 1 15 2 8 VET
BHR 9 3 3 2 VET
CHN 4 3 4 2 RIC
AZB 2 3 1 14 HAM
ESP 1 2 @ 1 2 HAM
MON 3 5 3 5 RIC
CDN 4 2 5 2 VET
FRA 1 2 @ 1 7 HAM
AUT 2 1 @ DNF DNF VER
GBR 1 2 @ 2 4 VET
GER 14 2 1 2 HAM
HUN 1 2 @ 1 5 HAM
BEL 1 17 2 4 VET
ITA 3 4 1 3 HAM
SIN 1 4 1 4 HAM
RUS 2 1 @ 1 2 HAM
JPN 1 2 @ 1 2 HAM
USA 1 3 3 5 RAI
MEX 3 5 4 5 VER
BRA 1 3 1 5 HAM
ABD 1 2 @ 1 5 HAM

Grid

HAM BHR, 5-place
BOT AUS, 5-place; BEL, started from back of grid

Race

BOT HUN, 10-sec; BEL, 5-sec

Bottas suffered a puncture while leading - AZB

2019

AUS 1 2 @ 2 1 BOT
BHR 3 4 1 2 HAM
CHN 2 1 @ 1 2 HAM
AZB 2 1 @ 2 1 BOT
ESP 2 1 @ 1 2 HAM
MON 1 2 @ 1 3 HAM
CDN 2 6 1 4 HAM
FRA 1 2 @ 1 2 HAM
AUT 4 3 5 3 VER
GBR 2 1 @ 1 2 HAM
GER 1 3 9 DNF VER
HUN 3 2 1 8 HAM
BEL 3 4 2 3 LEC
ITA 2 3 3 2 LEC
SIN 2 5 4 5 VET
RUS 2 4 1 2 HAM
JPN 4 3 3 1 BOT
MEX 3 6 1 3 HAM
USA 5 1 2 1 BOT
BRA 3 4 7 DNF VER
ABD 1 20 1 4 HAM

Grid

BOT ABD, started from the back of the grid

Race

HAM BRA, 5-sec

2020

AUT 5 1 4 1 BOT
Sty 1 4 1 2 HAM
HUN 1 2 @ 1 3 HAM
GBR 1 2 @ 1 11 HAM
Ann 2 1 @ 2 3 VER
ESP 1 2 @ 1 3 HAM
BEL 1 2 @ 1 2 HAM
ITA 1 2 @ 7 5 GAS
Tos 1 2 @ 1 2 HAM

Grid

HAM AUT, 3-place

Race

HAM AUT, 5-sec; ITA 10-sec S&G
Mark
2020-09-14 10:59:58 UTC
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Post by Brian Lawrence
I'm not going to analyse it all, but here is the data.
They have been team-mates since 2017, 71 GPs.
Okay, if I've not made some stupid mistake(s), the stats are as follows:

- Hamilton has qualified higher than Bottas 32 times more often than
vice versa (49-22)
- Hamilton has beaten Bottas 32 times more often than vice versa (51-19)
(this doesn't add up to 71 because in round 9 of 2018, both retired
and I haven't bothered nominally assigning positions).
- From starting ahead of Bottas (not necessarily on Pole), Hamilton has
beaten him 43 times
- From starting ahead of Hamilton, Bottas has beaten him 13 times
- From starting behind Bottas, Hamilton has beaten him 6 times
- From starting behind Hamilton, Bottas has beaten him 9 times

I'm not sure that tells you very much, but that's the data.

Race positions

Round 2017 2018 2019 2020
1 H(2/3) H(2/8) B(2/1) B(4/1)
2 H(1/6) B(3/2) H(1/2) H(1/2)
3 H(2/3) B(4/2) H(1/2) H(1/3)
4 B(4/1) H(1/14) B(2/1) H(1/11)
5 H(1/R) H(1/2) H(1/2) H(2/3)
6 B(7/4) H(3/5) H(1/3) H(1/3)
7 H(1/2) B(5/2) H(1/4) H(1/2)
8 B(5/2) H(1/7) H(1/2) B(7/5)
9 B(4/1) -(R/R) B(5/3) H(1/2)
10 H(1/2) H(2/4) H(1/2)
11 B(4/3) H(1/2) H(9/R)
12 H(1/5) H(1/5) H(1/8)
13 H(1/2) H(2/4) H(2/3)
14 H(1/3) H(1/3) B(3/2)
15 H(2/5) H(1/4) H(4/5)
16 H(1/4) H(1/2) H(1/2)
17 H(1/5) H(1/2) B(3/1)
18 B(9/2) H(3/5) H(1/3)
19 B(4/2) H(4/5) B(2/1)
20 B(2/1) H(1/5) H(7/R)
21 H(1/5) H(1/4)

Total: 12/8 17/3 15/6 7/2

Overall, Hamilton has beaten Bottas 32 times more often than vice versa
(51-19)

In terms of starting positions:

Round 2017 2018 2019 2020
1 H(1/3) H(1/10) H(1/2) B(2/1)
2 H(1/3) B(4/3) H(3/4) H(1/4)
3 B(2/1) B(4/3) B(2/1) H(1/2)
4 B(4/3) H(2/3) B(2/1) H(1/2)
5 H(1/3) H(1/2) B(2/1) B(2/1)
6 B(14/3) H(3/5) H(1/2) H(1/2)
7 H(1/3) B(4/2) H(2/6) H(1/2)
8 H(1/2) H(1/2) H(1/2) H(1/2)
9 B(3/1) B(2/1) H(2/4) H(1/2)
10 H(1/4) H(1/4) B(2/1)
11 B(4/3) B(14/2) H(1/3)
12 H(1/3) H(1/2) B(3/2)
13 H(1/6) H(1/10) H(3/4)
14 H(5/6) H(3/4) H(2/3)
15 H(1/5) H(1/4) H(2/5)
16 H(1/2) B(2/1) H(2/5)
17 H(1/3) H(1/2) B(4/3)
18 H(3/4) H(1/4) H(4/6)
19 B(-/1) H(3/5) B(5/1)
20 B(2/1) H(1/3) H(3/5)
21 H(1/2) H(1/2)

Total: 13-7 15-6 14-7 7-2

Overall, Hamilton has qualified higher than Bottas 32 times more often than vice versa
(49-22)

texas gate
2020-09-13 00:44:00 UTC
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Post by alister
I don't know the answer to that one but I am sure Brian could provide the
info
--
Conscience is a mother-in-law whose visit never ends.
-- H. L. Mencken
Look up your own stats.
Does someone change your shit bag too?
alister
2020-09-13 09:03:51 UTC
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Post by texas gate
Post by alister
I don't know the answer to that one but I am sure Brian could provide
the info
--
Conscience is a mother-in-law whose visit never ends.
-- H. L. Mencken
Look up your own stats.
Does someone change your shit bag too?
No I do that for myself
--
'Kitchen Sink' OS Announced

Coding has begun on a new operating system code named 'Kitchen Sink'. The
new
OS will be based entirely on GNU Emacs. One programmer explained, "Since
many
hackers spend a vast amount of their time in Emacs, why not just make it
the
operating system?" When asked about the name, he responded, "Well, it has
been
often said that Emacs has everything except a kitchen sink. Now it will."

One vi advocate said, "What the hell?!?! Those Emacs people are nuts. It
seems
that even with a programming language, a web browser, and God only knows
what
else built into their text editor, they're still not satisfied. Now they
want
it to be an operating system. Hell, even Windows ain't that bloated!"
texas gate
2020-09-13 00:50:08 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
Hey numbnuts. Why the all caps?
geoff
2020-09-13 02:13:09 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do??  Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
A pity the last laps for most of the field were spoiled.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-13 02:44:13 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do??  Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
A pity the last laps for most of the field were spoiled.
It certainly was. But while there were a few who could have gotten
close, the Mercedes is still the car to beat.
geoff
2020-09-13 02:17:05 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do??  Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
Yeah, so if HAM wins tomorrow it will be not due to the driver but due
to the car.

And if BOT wins, it will not be due to the car but due to the driver.

And if VER wins it will certainly be down to the driver, barring any
external influences.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-13 02:42:26 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do??  Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
Yeah, so if HAM wins tomorrow it will be not due to the driver but due
to the car.
Nope. I didn't say that, nor do I think it.

But the car plays a much bigger role than the driver.
Post by geoff
And if BOT wins, it will not be due to the car but due to the driver.
I certainly didn't say that.
Post by geoff
And if VER wins it will certainly be down to the driver, barring any
external influences.
Given that the Red Bull is quite obviously the slower car...

...yes; barring other factors beyond car and driver.
Sir Tim
2020-09-13 09:35:12 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do?? Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
Yes, Bottas is a superb qualifier (although having been behind throughout
practice this was a pretty good effort by Lewis). As always we will see
what happens in the race.
--
Sir Tim
build
2020-09-13 09:54:54 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do?? Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
Yes, Bottas is a superb qualifier (although having been behind throughout
practice this was a pretty good effort by Lewis). As always we will see
what happens in the race.
--
Sir Tim
Valtteri lost his second run to Ocon's yellow flag or we'd probably have and different pole.
Sir Tim
2020-09-13 10:11:13 UTC
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Post by build
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do?? Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
Yes, Bottas is a superb qualifier (although having been behind throughout
practice this was a pretty good effort by Lewis). As always we will see
what happens in the race.
--
Sir Tim
Valtteri lost his second run to Ocon's yellow flag or we'd probably have
and different pole.
Not sure about that. I think the wind affected Hamilton’s second run and
might have done the same to Valtteri. We shall never know 😊
--
Sir Tim
build
2020-09-13 10:56:27 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by build
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do?? Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
Yes, Bottas is a superb qualifier (although having been behind throughout
practice this was a pretty good effort by Lewis). As always we will see
what happens in the race.
--
Sir Tim
Valtteri lost his second run to Ocon's yellow flag or we'd probably have
and different pole.
Not sure about that. I think the wind affected Hamilton’s second run and
might have done the same to Valtteri. We shall never know 😊
True.
Post by Sir Tim
--
Sir Tim
geoff
2020-09-13 11:14:52 UTC
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Post by build
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
Doh. The group is called
Foxtrot 1🤔🤔
What does VB have to do?? Faster in all practice sessions and still
can't get pole. Just shows how far ahead LH is.
0.059 seconds faster is how far ahead Hamilton is.
That's just a little less than one TENTH of one PERCENT quicker.
Yes, Bottas is a superb qualifier (although having been behind throughout
practice this was a pretty good effort by Lewis). As always we will see
what happens in the race.
--
Sir Tim
Valtteri lost his second run to Ocon's yellow flag or we'd probably have and different pole.
I read that before I saw who posted it.
.... was surprised ;- )

Probably or possibly. One or the other.

geoff
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