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Discussion:
Mercedes Strategy - Barking
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CS
2020-07-05 21:25:53 UTC
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LH got a 5 second penalty. So why not switch to gap VB by say 4 secs and then switch back at the last corner???
Very poor strategy throwing away a 1-2, unless Mercedes hierarchy want VB to have a realistic Championship chance??
larkim
2020-07-06 06:56:28 UTC
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No guarantee that Bottas wouldn't have struggled to follow Hamilton, thus putting 2nd Mercedes at risk from a Ferrari on fresher tyres.

Would have been madness to try your strategy, imho.
Mark Jackson
2020-07-06 13:44:47 UTC
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Post by CS
LH got a 5 second penalty. So why not switch to gap VB by say 4 secs
and then switch back at the last corner???
Ineffective. Even if Bottas could hold Leclerc off while letting
Hamilton build a near-5 second lead Leclerc would be right behind (and
therefore much closer to Hamilton than 5 seconds) when they switched back.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
The Internet of Things is a system in which the failure
of a computer you didn't even know existed can render
your own things unusable. - Martin Ward
Bigbird
2020-07-06 18:52:08 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by CS
LH got a 5 second penalty. So why not switch to gap VB by say 4 secs
and then switch back at the last corner???
Ineffective. Even if Bottas could hold Leclerc off while letting
Hamilton build a near-5 second lead Leclerc would be right behind
(and therefore much closer to Hamilton than 5 seconds) when they
switched back.
Why would they switch back?
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
Mark Jackson
2020-07-06 19:07:30 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by CS
LH got a 5 second penalty. So why not switch to gap VB by say 4 secs
and then switch back at the last corner???
Ineffective. Even if Bottas could hold Leclerc off while letting
Hamilton build a near-5 second lead Leclerc would be right behind
(and therefore much closer to Hamilton than 5 seconds) when they
switched back.
Why would they switch back?
That was the OP's "brilliant" proposal, not mine.

If your point is "why not let Hamilton past and have Bottas hold Leclerc
more than 5 seconds behind to the end, preserving the 1-2," well:

- Leclerc might well have gotten by Bottas, and by getting within 5
seconds of Hamilton convert a 1-3 into a 2-3.*
- Ordering Bottas to do that would have destroyed any intra-team
cooperation for the remainder of the season

*Yes, I know Merc ended up with a 1-4. I don't believe anybody was
thinking that Norris would pull of the late charge he did.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
The Internet of Things is a system in which the failure
of a computer you didn't even know existed can render
your own things unusable. - Martin Ward
Bigbird
2020-07-06 20:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Bigbird
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by CS
LH got a 5 second penalty. So why not switch to gap VB by say 4
secs and then switch back at the last corner???
Ineffective. Even if Bottas could hold Leclerc off while letting
Hamilton build a near-5 second lead Leclerc would be right behind
(and therefore much closer to Hamilton than 5 seconds) when they
switched back.
Why would they switch back?
That was the OP's "brilliant" proposal, not mine.
If your point is "why not let Hamilton past and have Bottas hold
Leclerc more than 5 seconds behind to the end, preserving the 1-2,"
Nope, never an option given the risky state of the cars.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
a425couple
2020-07-06 17:03:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by CS
LH got a 5 second penalty. So why not switch to gap VB by say 4 secs and then switch back at the last corner???
Very poor strategy throwing away a 1-2, unless Mercedes hierarchy want VB to have a realistic Championship chance??
There are lots of ways for that to go totally wrong.
When you have a solid safe first, deposit it in the bank!
geoff
2020-07-07 04:58:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by CS
LH got a 5 second penalty. So why not switch to gap VB by say 4 secs
and then switch back at the last corner???
Very poor strategy throwing away a 1-2, unless Mercedes hierarchy want
VB to have a realistic Championship chance??
There are lots of ways for that to go totally wrong.
When you have a solid safe first, deposit it in the bank!
But that doesn't fit in with the mindset of those who prefer to think
that Merc would try anything just to bolster HAM.

geoff
a425couple
2020-07-08 15:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by CS
LH got a 5 second penalty. So why not switch to gap VB by say 4 secs
and then switch back at the last corner???
Very poor strategy throwing away a 1-2, unless Mercedes hierarchy want
VB to have a realistic Championship chance??
There are lots of ways for that to go totally wrong.
When you have a solid safe first, deposit it in the bank!
Support for my "lots of ways for that to go totally wrong"
comes from:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bottas-hamilton-austrian-gp-multi-21/4826695/

"The only time Mercedes did consider perhaps interfering with the
positions was in the closing stages when Hamilton had a five-second
penalty for his collision with Alex Albon.

The pit wall discussed the idea of telling Bottas to let Hamilton
through so the British driver could extend a gap to protect second
place, but in the end it was felt too complicated a situation to manage.

Wolff added: "Maybe with all the information afterwards we would have
gotten P3. There was a discussion, but that starts to get really messy.

"We've had it in Budapest many years ago, and we nearly got overtaken by
[Max] Verstappen. The thinking that I had was that you need to explain
to Valtteri what is going on, that there is a five-second penalty, and
then ask Lewis in the last lap to let Valtteri pass again.

"So if Valtteri can't keep up, he can't let him past, and if [Charles]
Leclerc and [Lando] Norris on fresh tyres are on his gearbox, then
obviously Valtteri rather than winning the race ends up fourth. Too much
complexity to do such a switch. Too much risk."
CS
2020-07-10 11:35:16 UTC
Permalink
What seems simple watching Ch4 highlights is clearly more problematic and accept Toto's "all too difficult" category!!
Bigbird
2020-07-06 19:03:38 UTC
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Post by CS
LH got a 5 second penalty. So why not switch to gap VB by say 4 secs
and then switch back at the last corner???
There is a logic fail there. If both cars could have gapped LEC why
would they switch in the first place?

Ignoring the switch back the problem was that both cars were thought to
be on the verge of a malfunction.

Keeping things as they were protected the win.

Switching would have put VB under pressure and not guaranteed LH the
gap. If LEC put VB under pressure he might be within half a second at
the line. Tricky to give LH second and not steal the win. Those optics
would have been awful.
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
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