Discussion:
Fernando returning to F1 with Renault in 2021
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Brian Lawrence
2020-07-07 15:35:22 UTC
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<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
News
2020-07-07 16:35:51 UTC
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    <https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Flavio needs the money...
CS
2020-07-07 21:26:39 UTC
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Becoming a real pensioners Club🤔
Dex
2020-07-08 06:45:21 UTC
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Post by Brian Lawrence
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Going to be as embarrassing as Mansel and Schumacher's return to F1.

Perhaps Brian can tell us the last time a driver returned to F1 after a
few years away and won the WDC, using his skill and not some new technology.
Brian Lawrence
2020-07-08 07:37:40 UTC
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Post by Dex
     <https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Going to be as embarrassing as Mansel and Schumacher's return to F1.
Perhaps Brian can tell us the last time a driver returned to F1 after a
few years away and won the WDC, using his skill and not some new technology.
That would be Niki Lauda, who took two years out (1980-81) and won the
WDC again in 1984.

Two won again after missing just one season:

Fangio missed 1952, won WDCs 1954-57
Prost missed 1992, won WDC 1993

Several came back after a break but didn't win the Championship.

Raikkonen 2010-11
Schumacher 2007-09
Villeneuve 2004 (did drive in last 3 GPs in '04)
Mansell 1993
Jones 1982-84 (one-off race in '83)

Button returned for Monaco in 2017 and there may be a few other brief
returns.

The above was mostly from memory.
Dex
2020-07-08 08:47:06 UTC
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Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Dex
Post by Brian Lawrence
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Going to be as embarrassing as Mansel and Schumacher's return to F1.
Perhaps Brian can tell us the last time a driver returned to F1 after
a few years away and won the WDC, using his skill and not some new
technology.
That would be Niki Lauda, who took two years out (1980-81) and won the
WDC again in 1984.
Fangio missed 1952, won WDCs 1954-57
Prost missed 1992, won WDC 1993
Several came back after a break but didn't win the Championship.
Raikkonen 2010-11
Schumacher 2007-09
Villeneuve 2004 (did drive in last 3 GPs in '04)
Mansell 1993
Jones 1982-84 (one-off race in '83)
Button returned for Monaco in 2017 and there may be a few other brief
returns.
The above was mostly from memory.
Thanks.
,
Only one I could think of was Prost, who took a year off after being
sacked by Ferrari and won in 1993.
Yousuf Khan
2020-07-08 09:39:01 UTC
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Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Dex
Perhaps Brian can tell us the last time a driver returned to F1 after
a few years away and won the WDC, using his skill and not some new
technology.
That would be Niki Lauda, who took two years out (1980-81) and won the
WDC again in 1984.
Fangio          missed 1952, won WDCs 1954-57
Prost           missed 1992, won WDC 1993
Several came back after a break but didn't win the Championship.
Raikkonen       2010-11
Schumacher      2007-09
Villeneuve      2004     (did drive in last 3 GPs in '04)
Mansell         1993
Jones           1982-84  (one-off race in '83)
Button returned for Monaco in 2017 and there may be a few other brief
returns.
The above was mostly from memory.
Yup, that's pretty much as complete as it gets.

Fernando hasn't exactly been lazying in the sun during his time off from
F1, so I don't think his skill set is going to be too rusty. Renault on
the other hand, who knows what level they will be at when he returns.

Yousuf Khan
Sir Tim
2020-07-08 20:24:22 UTC
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Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Dex
     <https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Going to be as embarrassing as Mansel and Schumacher's return to F1.
Perhaps Brian can tell us the last time a driver returned to F1 after a
few years away and won the WDC, using his skill and not some new technology.
That would be Niki Lauda, who took two years out (1980-81) and won the
WDC again in 1984.
But he was a lot younger than Alonso will be.
--
Sir Tim
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-08 11:20:19 UTC
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Post by Dex
Post by Brian Lawrence
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Going to be as embarrassing as Mansel and Schumacher's return to F1.
Perhaps Brian can tell us the last time a driver returned to F1 after a
few years away and won the WDC, using his skill and not some new technology.
Those two got embarrassed because their teammates dominated them. Alonso could dominate his teammate and still get poor results because Renault is nowhere.
The driver let alone his age is virtually irrelevant to F1 performance, as Bottas showed sunday (one of the worse drivers in F1 ever gets pole/win because of a supercar). Hamilton is laughably overrated since 2014 because of 7 years in a supercar.
Prost was slow as hell and waay past his prime in 1993. He got more poles (13) and wins (7) that year as an old man than any other year in his prime (because he had 1 year in a car like Hamilton's had for the last 7 years.)
Martin Harran
2020-07-09 13:58:36 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Dex
Post by Brian Lawrence
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Going to be as embarrassing as Mansel and Schumacher's return to F1.
Perhaps Brian can tell us the last time a driver returned to F1 after a
few years away and won the WDC, using his skill and not some new technology.
Those two got embarrassed because their teammates dominated them. Alonso could dominate his teammate and still get poor results because Renault is nowhere.
The driver let alone his age is virtually irrelevant to F1 performance, as Bottas showed sunday (one of the worse drivers in F1 ever gets pole/win because of a supercar). Hamilton is laughably overrated since 2014 because of 7 years in a supercar.
Prost was slow as hell and waay past his prime in 1993. He got more poles (13) and wins (7) that year as an old man than any other year in his prime (because he had 1 year in a car like Hamilton's had for the last 7 years.)
That reminds me of the famous golfer [*] who sank a great putt and
someone in the crowd exclaimed "Lucky shot!" to which the golfer
replied "Yeah, the funny thing is, the more I practice, the luckier I
get."

[*] Often attributed to Gary Player but he himself attributed it to
Jerry Barber.
Calum
2020-07-10 20:57:44 UTC
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Post by Martin Harran
[*] Often attributed to Gary Player but he himself attributed it to
Jerry Barber.
It's been around in various forms a lot longer than that, however.
<https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/07/14/luck/>
Martin Harran
2020-08-04 20:25:10 UTC
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On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 21:57:44 +0100, Calum
Post by Calum
Post by Martin Harran
[*] Often attributed to Gary Player but he himself attributed it to
Jerry Barber.
It's been around in various forms a lot longer than that, however.
<https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/07/14/luck/>
David Coulthard quoted it on Sunday when someone talked about an
element of luck in Hamilton getting through the last lap :)
Alan Baker
2020-07-09 17:28:43 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Dex
Post by Brian Lawrence
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Going to be as embarrassing as Mansel and Schumacher's return to F1.
Perhaps Brian can tell us the last time a driver returned to F1
after a few years away and won the WDC, using his skill and not
some new technology.
Those two got embarrassed because their teammates dominated them.
Alonso could dominate his teammate and still get poor results because
Renault is nowhere. The driver let alone his age is virtually
irrelevant to F1 performance, as Bottas showed sunday (one of the
worse drivers in F1 ever gets pole/win because of a supercar).
Hamilton is laughably overrated since 2014 because of 7 years in a
supercar. Prost was slow as hell and waay past his prime in 1993. He
got more poles (13) and wins (7) that year as an old man than any
other year in his prime (because he had 1 year in a car like
Hamilton's had for the last 7 years.)
Let's see:

First of all, just because Mansell and Schumacher didn't do well in
their returns, doesn't mean Alonso won't. The largest part of the
problem is not one of aging, but one of DESIRE. To be the best in F1,
you have to want it pretty badly, and it's hard to want it as much when
you've already achieved so much and are basically set for life.

The driver is NOT irrelevant to F1 performance. Certainly, these days,
the car is the bigger factor—probably upwards of 75%, but your own
chosen example shows why the driver matters. If the driver was as
irrelevant as you claim, then Bottas's and Hamilton's records of the
last few years would be a lot closer to equal.

And I don't know who the worst driver in F1 right now is...

...and neither do you.

Hamilton probably IS overrated, but that's only because so many want to
declare him the greatest F1 driver of all time. He's not.

Prost in 1993 had Damon Hill for a teammate, and if it's escaped your
notice, Hill was runner up for the championship the next year and
eventually a world champion himself. Yes, the Williams was undoubtedly
the best car that year, but Prost basically crushed a future World
Driving Champion.
Edmund
2020-08-04 21:51:12 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Dex
Post by Brian Lawrence
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Going to be as embarrassing as Mansel and Schumacher's return to F1.
Perhaps Brian can tell us the last time a driver returned to F1
after a few years away and won the WDC, using his skill and not
some new technology.
Those two got embarrassed because their teammates dominated them.
Alonso could dominate his teammate and still get poor results because
Renault is nowhere. The driver let alone his age is virtually
irrelevant to F1 performance, as Bottas showed sunday (one of the
worse drivers in F1 ever gets pole/win because of a supercar).
Hamilton is laughably overrated since 2014 because of 7 years in a
supercar. Prost was slow as hell and waay past his prime in 1993. He
got more poles (13) and wins (7) that year as an old man than any
other year in his prime (because he had 1 year in a car like
Hamilton's had for the last 7 years.)
First of all, just because Mansell and Schumacher didn't do well in
their returns, doesn't mean Alonso won't. The largest part of the
problem is not one of aging, but one of DESIRE.
How do you thonk you know that?
Post by Alan Baker
To be the best in F1,
you have to want it pretty badly, and it's hard to want it as much when
you've already achieved so much and are basically set for life.
The driver is NOT irrelevant to F1 performance. Certainly, these days,
the car is the bigger factor—probably upwards of 75%,
Make that 95%
Post by Alan Baker
but your own
chosen example shows why the driver matters. If the driver was as
irrelevant as you claim, then Bottas's and Hamilton's records of the
last few years would be a lot closer to equal.
Never, Merc did never allow that and they never will.
Post by Alan Baker
And I don't know who the worst driver in F1 right now is...
...and neither do you.
Hamilton probably IS overrated, but that's only because so many want to
declare him the greatest F1 driver of all time. He's not.
Prost in 1993 had Damon Hill for a teammate, and if it's escaped your
notice, Hill was runner up for the championship the next year and
eventually a world champion himself. Yes, the Williams was undoubtedly
the best car that year, but Prost basically crushed a future World
Driving Champion.
Martin Harran
2020-07-08 11:14:13 UTC
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On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 16:35:22 +0100, Brian Lawrence
Post by Brian Lawrence
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Based on Alonso's track record with a whole series of teams, that
could well be Renault's death knell.
Dan the Man
2020-07-09 16:27:49 UTC
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Post by Brian Lawrence
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53325412>
Interesting. The last time Fred 'returned' to Renault ('08-09), he finished 5th in '08 and 9th in '09. If he equals that, he will probably exceed expectations for a guy pushing 40.

Dan
John
2020-07-13 01:26:33 UTC
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Could he get some seat time this year in FP1 or something?
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