Discussion:
Dan cost Lando a better finish..
(too old to reply)
~misfit~
2019-06-24 02:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Sure he got two penalties, as he should have under the current rules (unsafe rejoin and leaving the
track to gain an advantage) but that doesn't magically put Lando back ahead of Kimi and Carlos
after he messed his tyres up and lost his momentum avoiding Dan's dangerous rejoin and then lost
those places.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
~misfit~
2019-06-24 02:22:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Sure he got two penalties, as he should have under the current rules (unsafe rejoin and leaving the
track to gain an advantage) but that doesn't magically put Lando back ahead of Kimi and Carlos
after he messed his tyres up and lost his momentum avoiding Dan's dangerous rejoin and then lost
those places.
*Correction Kimi and Nico - not Kimi and Carlos.

I guess at least Dan made sure Nico got a better result (10th to 8th in those couple corners due to
Dans shenanigans), a real team player...
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
larkim
2019-06-24 06:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Agree. But "that's racing".
Bigbird
2019-06-24 10:17:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
+1
--
Trump fact check:
The grand total as of Sunday: 4,913 false claims
Last week’s total: 31 false claims
That’s the 75th-worst week of his presidency out of 116 weeks so far.
~misfit~
2019-06-24 11:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of blood. Desperate Dan.

Mind you his team had probably been telling him for 10 laps that Lando was in trouble and maybe he
felt he had to go for it at Renault's home race. 3 points on his license though.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
larkim
2019-06-24 13:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of blood. Desperate Dan.
Mind you his team had probably been telling him for 10 laps that Lando was in trouble and maybe he
felt he had to go for it at Renault's home race. 3 points on his license though.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
I'd much rather Dan had a go at a 25% chance last lap of the race than
didn't. Not sure whether his team would have the same view, but these
are fine margins - it wasn't that desperate an attempt, he overshot by
a small margin. Norris perhaps could have been smarter and had a better
drive off the right hander by giving Dan more room on the inside, but that's
being picky.

Dan's four wheels off down the next straight though was poor decision
making, KR just stuck it straight and sensibly defensive, Dan effectively
stole extra track to allow the pass to work. A bit stupid, but nothing
is comlpetely out of the ordinary in terms of a bit of over-enthusiastic
driving.
t***@gmail.com
2019-06-25 05:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of blood. Desperate Dan.
take up knitting
Out Cider
2019-06-25 22:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of
blood. Desperate Dan.
Dan often makes half-safe dive bombs. When they succeed, he's the Driver
of the Day. But sometimes he fails, and then he's a pariah. Still, he
doesn't usually collide with his fellow racers when he fails as some
other drivers. Plus, he has a humour about it when he fails, instead of
just insisting he did nothing wrong.
--
OutCider
~misfit~
2019-06-26 01:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Out Cider
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of blood. Desperate Dan.
Dan often makes half-safe dive bombs. When they succeed, he's the Driver
of the Day. But sometimes he fails, and then he's a pariah. Still, he
doesn't usually collide with his fellow racers when he fails as some
other drivers. Plus, he has a humour about it when he fails, instead of
just insisting he did nothing wrong.
However Dan's said that the Renault is no Red Bull which limits his ability to make his trademark
late braking passes. Also I've rarely seen him being as clumsy as his attempt on Lando (then
subsequent track re-join) or outright flouting the rules as he did passing Kimi off-track.

My opinion is pressure dictated his decision making processes. Whether it was coming from the team
over the radio (in their home race) or from within due to frustration at not being able to pass a
hobbled Renault customer car. Dan's never struck me as a 'red mist' driver before.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
keithr0
2019-06-26 12:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Out Cider
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of blood. Desperate Dan.
Dan often makes half-safe dive bombs. When they succeed, he's the Driver
of the Day. But sometimes he fails, and then he's a pariah. Still, he
doesn't usually collide with his fellow racers when he fails as some
other drivers. Plus, he has a humour about it when he fails, instead of
just insisting he did nothing wrong.
However Dan's said that the Renault is no Red Bull which limits his
ability to make his trademark late braking passes. Also I've rarely seen
him being as clumsy as his attempt on Lando (then subsequent track
re-join) or outright flouting the rules as he did passing Kimi off-track.
My opinion is pressure dictated his decision making processes. Whether
it was coming from the team over the radio (in their home race) or from
within due to frustration at not being able to pass a hobbled Renault
customer car. Dan's never struck me as a 'red mist' driver before.
"It’s better to have a fight and see what happens than to just sit
behind and be a loser"

Daniel Ricciardo (after the race)
~misfit~
2019-06-27 01:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Out Cider
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of blood. Desperate Dan.
Dan often makes half-safe dive bombs. When they succeed, he's the Driver
of the Day. But sometimes he fails, and then he's a pariah. Still, he
doesn't usually collide with his fellow racers when he fails as some
other drivers. Plus, he has a humour about it when he fails, instead of
just insisting he did nothing wrong.
However Dan's said that the Renault is no Red Bull which limits his ability to make his trademark
late braking passes. Also I've rarely seen him being as clumsy as his attempt on Lando (then
subsequent track re-join) or outright flouting the rules as he did passing Kimi off-track.
My opinion is pressure dictated his decision making processes. Whether it was coming from the
team over the radio (in their home race) or from within due to frustration at not being able to
pass a hobbled Renault customer car. Dan's never struck me as a 'red mist' driver before.
"It’s better to have a fight and see what happens than to just sit behind and be a loser"
Daniel Ricciardo (after the race)
After the fact justification. Also he ended up as MORE of a loser so there's that...

I'm really annoyed lately with the drivers and commentators all bitching about the latest penalties
and saying 'just let them race'. Not so long ago they were bitching about vague rules and no
consistency with penalties and some drivers not staying between the white lines so the rules were
made very specific in response to the criticism.

Now they're bitching because the stewards don't have leeway to say it was a 'racing incident'.

Be careful what you wish for - and when you get it don't whine about it and denigrate the people
who made it happen. Because you asked for it and people worked hard to give it to you.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
t***@gmail.com
2019-06-27 01:56:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Be careful what you wish for - and when you get it don't whine about it and denigrate the people
who made it happen. Because you asked for it and people worked hard to give it to you.
get a job
t***@gmail.com
2019-06-27 01:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
I'm really annoyed lately
lol
t***@gmail.com
2019-06-27 02:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
I'm really annoyed lately
lately? fuck thats why you are in that rut
Sir Tim
2019-06-27 07:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Be careful what you wish for - and when you get it don't whine about it
and denigrate the people
who made it happen. Because you asked for it and people worked hard to give it to you.
+1
--
Sir Tim
keithr0
2019-06-27 09:47:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by keithr0
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Out Cider
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of
blood. Desperate Dan.
Dan often makes half-safe dive bombs. When they succeed, he's the Driver
of the Day. But sometimes he fails, and then he's a pariah. Still, he
doesn't usually collide with his fellow racers when he fails as some
other drivers. Plus, he has a humour about it when he fails, instead of
just insisting he did nothing wrong.
However Dan's said that the Renault is no Red Bull which limits his
ability to make his trademark late braking passes. Also I've rarely
seen him being as clumsy as his attempt on Lando (then subsequent
track re-join) or outright flouting the rules as he did passing Kimi
off-track.
My opinion is pressure dictated his decision making processes.
Whether it was coming from the team over the radio (in their home
race) or from within due to frustration at not being able to pass a
hobbled Renault customer car. Dan's never struck me as a 'red mist' driver before.
"It’s better to have a fight and see what happens than to just sit
behind and be a loser"
Daniel Ricciardo (after the race)
After the fact justification. Also he ended up as MORE of a loser so there's that...
I don't know what you get out of watching F1, but I'd rather watch
somebody who is willing to give it a go when he sees half a chance that
the ones who will only try when it is a foregone conclusion.
Post by ~misfit~
I'm really annoyed lately with the drivers and commentators all bitching
about the latest penalties and saying 'just let them race'. Not so long
ago they were bitching about vague rules and no consistency with
penalties and some drivers not staying between the white lines so the
rules were made very specific in response to the criticism.
No-one here bitching about the rules, what he did was
uncharacteristically clumsy, but over the years I've seen far worse go
unpunished.
Post by ~misfit~
Now they're bitching because the stewards don't have leeway to say it
was a 'racing incident'.
Be careful what you wish for - and when you get it don't whine about it
and denigrate the people who made it happen. Because you asked for it
and people worked hard to give it to you.
Who exactly is whining?
~misfit~
2019-06-27 11:20:33 UTC
Permalink
<snipped>
Post by ~misfit~
"It’s better to have a fight and see what happens than to just sit behind and be a loser"
Daniel Ricciardo (after the race)
After the fact justification. Also he ended up as MORE of a loser so there's that...
I don't know what you get out of watching F1, but I'd rather watch somebody who is willing to give
it a go when he sees half a chance that the ones who will only try when it is a foregone conclusion.
I love to watch good drivers driving cleanly and well. I'd rather see drivers give it a go when
they see at least 3/4 of a chance. If it's only 1/2 a chance then 50% of the time they're likely to
fuck up the race for others instead.
Post by ~misfit~
I'm really annoyed lately with the drivers and commentators all bitching about the latest
penalties and saying 'just let them race'. Not so long ago they were bitching about vague rules
and no consistency with penalties and some drivers not staying between the white lines so the
rules were made very specific in response to the criticism.
No-one here bitching about the rules, what he did was uncharacteristically clumsy, but over the
years I've seen far worse go unpunished.
People here have been bitching about the penalties handed down for the last couple of weeks.
They're a result of the rules. I almost said the above last week but after reading a few comments
about Dan's (first) penalty in France I decided to say it now.
Post by ~misfit~
Now they're bitching because the stewards don't have leeway to say it was a 'racing incident'.
Be careful what you wish for - and when you get it don't whine about it and denigrate the people
who made it happen. Because you asked for it and people worked hard to give it to you.
Who exactly is whining?
Vettel and most of the Sky commentators (and according to some hobbyist racer almost every past
WDC). A lot of these are the people who previously spat the dummy and inferred bias whenever there
was a penalty handed down that was different to the penalty given for a similar incident at a
different time.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
Alan Baker
2019-06-27 15:11:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
<snipped>
Post by keithr0
Post by ~misfit~
Post by keithr0
"It’s better to have a fight and see what happens than to just sit
behind and be a loser"
Daniel Ricciardo (after the race)
After the fact justification. Also he ended up as MORE of a loser so there's that...
I don't know what you get out of watching F1, but I'd rather watch
somebody who is willing to give it a go when he sees half a chance
that the ones who will only try when it is a foregone conclusion.
I love to watch good drivers driving cleanly and well. I'd rather see
drivers give it a go when they see at least 3/4 of a chance. If it's
only 1/2 a chance then 50% of the time they're likely to fuck up the
race for others instead.
It wasn't his having a go that fucked it up for Norris, it was his
choice (and he had a choice) about how to rejoin after his go had gone
wrong.
Post by ~misfit~
Post by keithr0
Post by ~misfit~
I'm really annoyed lately with the drivers and commentators all
bitching about the latest penalties and saying 'just let them race'.
Not so long ago they were bitching about vague rules and no
consistency with penalties and some drivers not staying between the
white lines so the rules were made very specific in response to the
criticism.
No-one here bitching about the rules, what he did was
uncharacteristically clumsy, but over the years I've seen far worse go
unpunished.
People here have been bitching about the penalties handed down for the
last couple of weeks. They're a result of the rules. I almost said the
above last week but after reading a few comments about Dan's (first)
penalty in France I decided to say it now.
The difference between Riccardio's penalty and Vettel's is that
Riccardio was clearly back in control of the car BEFORE he brought it
back onto the track.
Post by ~misfit~
Post by keithr0
Post by ~misfit~
Now they're bitching because the stewards don't have leeway to say it
was a 'racing incident'.
Be careful what you wish for - and when you get it don't whine about
it and denigrate the people who made it happen. Because you asked for
it and people worked hard to give it to you.
Who exactly is whining?
Vettel and most of the Sky commentators (and according to some hobbyist
racer almost every past WDC). A lot of these are the people who
previously spat the dummy and inferred bias whenever there was a penalty
handed down that was different to the penalty given for a similar
incident at a different time.
I don't know that any of us are whining...

...but I do know that I trust the collected opinion of dozens of F1
drivers about this.

I've never inferred bias in any penalty.
Out Cider
2019-06-27 17:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Out Cider
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of blood. Desperate Dan.
Dan often makes half-safe dive bombs. When they succeed, he's the Driver
of the Day. But sometimes he fails, and then he's a pariah. Still, he
doesn't usually collide with his fellow racers when he fails as some
other drivers. Plus, he has a humour about it when he fails, instead of
just insisting he did nothing wrong.
However Dan's said that the Renault is no Red Bull which limits his
ability to make his trademark late braking passes. Also I've rarely
seen him being as clumsy as his attempt on Lando (then subsequent
track re-join) or outright flouting the rules as he did passing Kimi
off-track.
I agree. His divebombs have almost always been stylish, for a lack of a
better word. And, to me, clean. And spectacularly exciting.
Post by ~misfit~
My opinion is pressure dictated his decision making processes. Whether
it was coming from the team over the radio (in their home race) or
from within due to frustration at not being able to pass a hobbled
Renault customer car. Dan's never struck me as a 'red mist' driver
before.
Your analysis might well be correct.
--
OutCider
Bruce Hoult
2019-06-27 02:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of blood. Desperate Dan.
Mind you his team had probably been telling him for 10 laps that Lando was in trouble and maybe he
felt he had to go for it at Renault's home race. 3 points on his license though.
I wonder how much of that was down to his drink bottle not being connected.
~misfit~
2019-06-27 05:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Agree. But "that's racing".
Yeah I guess. To me it smacks of desperation, last lap rush of blood. Desperate Dan.
Mind you his team had probably been telling him for 10 laps that Lando was in trouble and maybe he
felt he had to go for it at Renault's home race. 3 points on his license though.
I wonder how much of that was down to his drink bottle not being connected.
Good point - I'd almost forgotten about that. He was probably under quite a bit of stress.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
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