Discussion:
FIA Cock Up
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CS
2020-09-06 20:45:01 UTC
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What a shambles by Chevy Chase and go. They are trying to prevent teams coaching drivers by radio but the singularly fail big time to post proper signs. A couple of weedy boards on the outside of the turn, well out of a driver's eyeline, when a humongous sign above the put Lane is flashing "BOX BOX". It should have been flashing "CLOSED" in RED.
Dipsticks. Worthy of a Texarse explosion.
Made for a good race with the young bloods though, so that was fun.
Alan Baker
2020-09-06 21:16:49 UTC
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Post by CS
What a shambles by Chevy Chase and go. They are trying to prevent teams coaching drivers by radio but the singularly fail big time to post proper signs. A couple of weedy boards on the outside of the turn, well out of a driver's eyeline, when a humongous sign above the put Lane is flashing "BOX BOX". It should have been flashing "CLOSED" in RED.
Dipsticks. Worthy of a Texarse explosion.
Made for a good race with the young bloods though, so that was fun.
1. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be displayed
and where and then to obey them.

2. The signs were not out of the driver's eyeline. Each comes into view
dead ahead of the driver has he rounds the corner. And they're displayed
at precisely the same location as are used to display all the
other signals to the drivers (yellow, blue, etc.). Drivers know where to
look for those signs.. ...because they have to.

3. There are two of them in quick succession precisely because the
parabolica is such a fast turn that you need to be certain that a driver
DOES see a sign that indicates that he may come around the corner at
speed right into a problem...

...only Hamilton wasn't AT racing speed, was he? He missed TWO signs
despite being well below racing pace. The best drivers in the world are
supposed to be better than that.

4. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be displayed
and where and then to obey them.
geoff
2020-09-07 03:14:28 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
What a shambles by Chevy Chase and go. They are trying to prevent
teams coaching drivers by radio but the singularly fail big time to
post proper signs.  A couple of weedy boards on the outside of the
turn, well out of a driver's eyeline, when a humongous sign above the
put Lane is flashing "BOX BOX". It should have been flashing "CLOSED"
in RED.
Dipsticks. Worthy of a Texarse explosion.
Made for a good race with the young bloods though, so that was fun.
1. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be displayed
and where and then to obey them.
2. The signs were not out of the driver's eyeline. Each comes into view
dead ahead of the driver has he rounds the corner. And they're displayed
at precisely the same location as are used to display all the
other signals to the drivers (yellow, blue, etc.). Drivers know where to
look for those signs.. ...because they have to.
3. There are two of them in quick succession precisely because the
parabolica is such a fast turn that you need to be certain that a driver
DOES see a sign that indicates that he may come around the corner at
speed right into a problem...
...only Hamilton wasn't AT racing speed, was he? He missed TWO signs
despite being well below racing pace. The best drivers in the world are
supposed to be better than that.
4. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be displayed
and where and then to obey them.
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.

And then he went on to move from last up to 7th in not that many laps
and nobody actually extending on him, without having the inherently
fastest car in a straight line.

Just as well he fucked up though, otherwise it would likely have been
same-old same-old yet again. for P1 at least.

geoff
texas gate
2020-09-07 04:57:31 UTC
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Post by geoff
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
And then he went on to move from last up to 7th in not that many laps
and nobody actually extending on him, without having the inherently
fastest car in a straight line.
Just as well he fucked up though, otherwise it would likely have been
same-old same-old yet again. for P1 at least.
Lay off the fucking booze.
And talk like a normal human fucking being.
If possible
geoff
2020-09-07 05:08:12 UTC
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Post by texas gate
Post by geoff
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
And then he went on to move from last up to 7th in not that many laps
and nobody actually extending on him, without having the inherently
fastest car in a straight line.
Just as well he fucked up though, otherwise it would likely have been
same-old same-old yet again. for P1 at least.
Lay off the fucking booze.
And talk like a normal human fucking being.
If possible
Hilarious, especially coming from a yank.

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-07 07:34:32 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
What a shambles by Chevy Chase and go. They are trying to prevent
teams coaching drivers by radio but the singularly fail big time to
post proper signs.  A couple of weedy boards on the outside of the
turn, well out of a driver's eyeline, when a humongous sign above the
put Lane is flashing "BOX BOX". It should have been flashing "CLOSED"
in RED.
Dipsticks. Worthy of a Texarse explosion.
Made for a good race with the young bloods though, so that was fun.
1. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be
displayed and where and then to obey them.
2. The signs were not out of the driver's eyeline. Each comes into
view dead ahead of the driver has he rounds the corner. And they're
displayed at precisely the same location as are used to display all the
other signals to the drivers (yellow, blue, etc.). Drivers know where
to look for those signs.. ...because they have to.
3. There are two of them in quick succession precisely because the
parabolica is such a fast turn that you need to be certain that a
driver DOES see a sign that indicates that he may come around the
corner at speed right into a problem...
...only Hamilton wasn't AT racing speed, was he? He missed TWO signs
despite being well below racing pace. The best drivers in the world
are supposed to be better than that.
4. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be
displayed and where and then to obey them.
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
Nope. Just him.

Funny how so many want to say it's all the driver when things go well...
Post by geoff
And then he went on to move from last up to 7th in not that many laps
and nobody actually extending on him, without having the inherently
fastest car in a straight line.
Yup. Moving through back markers ain't that hard.

You DO realize that it was only a handful of cars which were inherently
faster in a straight line...

...right?
Post by geoff
Just as well he fucked up though, otherwise it would likely have been
same-old same-old yet again. for P1 at least.
The race certainly held some interest because of it.
geoff
2020-09-07 08:35:15 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
What a shambles by Chevy Chase and go. They are trying to prevent
teams coaching drivers by radio but the singularly fail big time to
post proper signs.  A couple of weedy boards on the outside of the
turn, well out of a driver's eyeline, when a humongous sign above
the put Lane is flashing "BOX BOX". It should have been flashing
"CLOSED" in RED.
Dipsticks. Worthy of a Texarse explosion.
Made for a good race with the young bloods though, so that was fun.
1. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be
displayed and where and then to obey them.
2. The signs were not out of the driver's eyeline. Each comes into
view dead ahead of the driver has he rounds the corner. And they're
displayed at precisely the same location as are used to display all the
other signals to the drivers (yellow, blue, etc.). Drivers know where
to look for those signs.. ...because they have to.
3. There are two of them in quick succession precisely because the
parabolica is such a fast turn that you need to be certain that a
driver DOES see a sign that indicates that he may come around the
corner at speed right into a problem...
...only Hamilton wasn't AT racing speed, was he? He missed TWO signs
despite being well below racing pace. The best drivers in the world
are supposed to be better than that.
4. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be
displayed and where and then to obey them.
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
Nope. Just him.
Funny how so many want to say it's all the driver when things go well...
Post by geoff
And then he went on to move from last up to 7th in not that many laps
and nobody actually extending on him, without having the inherently
fastest car in a straight line.
Yup. Moving through back markers ain't that hard.
Not even through all that dirty air that prevents everybody else from
winning the races that he does ?
Post by Alan Baker
You DO realize that it was only a handful of cars which were inherently
faster in a straight line...
...right?
And those ones that were increased their gap to him ? And the one with
totally clear air ? And the one with a 6 sec or so gap worth of clear air ?

geoff
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 04:09:04 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
What a shambles by Chevy Chase and go. They are trying to prevent
teams coaching drivers by radio but the singularly fail big time to
post proper signs.  A couple of weedy boards on the outside of the
turn, well out of a driver's eyeline, when a humongous sign above
the put Lane is flashing "BOX BOX". It should have been flashing
"CLOSED" in RED.
Dipsticks. Worthy of a Texarse explosion.
Made for a good race with the young bloods though, so that was fun.
1. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be
displayed and where and then to obey them.
2. The signs were not out of the driver's eyeline. Each comes into
view dead ahead of the driver has he rounds the corner. And they're
displayed at precisely the same location as are used to display all the
other signals to the drivers (yellow, blue, etc.). Drivers know
where to look for those signs.. ...because they have to.
3. There are two of them in quick succession precisely because the
parabolica is such a fast turn that you need to be certain that a
driver DOES see a sign that indicates that he may come around the
corner at speed right into a problem...
...only Hamilton wasn't AT racing speed, was he? He missed TWO signs
despite being well below racing pace. The best drivers in the world
are supposed to be better than that.
4. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be
displayed and where and then to obey them.
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
Nope. Just him.
Funny how so many want to say it's all the driver when things go well...
Post by geoff
And then he went on to move from last up to 7th in not that many laps
and nobody actually extending on him, without having the inherently
fastest car in a straight line.
Yup. Moving through back markers ain't that hard.
Not even through all that dirty air that prevents everybody else from
winning the races that he does ?
The dirty air that contributes to it affects Hamilton's Mercedes of
course...

...but it's quite a bit faster than most of the cars he passed getting
to 7th.

The speed trap results for Monza were:

Raikkonen 354.5
Ocon 349.0
Perez 348.4
Stroll 344.3
Gasly 343.9
Kvyat 343.5
Ricciardo 342.9
Albon 342.8
Hamilton 341.4

(and if you want evidence of why Bottas didn't do better, look no
further than his best speed trap speed of 337.8)

Of those 8 drivers who were faster than Hamilton, 5 of them finished
ahead of him and Albon's car was clearly badly damaged.

All the rest of the cars he passed were slower than the Mercedes in a
straight line.
Post by geoff
Post by Alan Baker
You DO realize that it was only a handful of cars which were
inherently faster in a straight line...
...right?
And those ones that were increased their gap to him ? And the one with
totally clear air ? And the one with a 6 sec or so gap worth of clear air ?
Bigbird
2020-09-07 12:41:00 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
Not to disparage Hamilton but...
Post by Alan Baker
Nope. Just him.
LOL.

So you claim to know the team had no way of knowing the pit lane was
closed?
Post by Alan Baker
Funny how so many want to say it's all the driver when things go well...
Nothing like being a touch disingenuous... or just lying.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
And then he went on to move from last up to 7th in not that many
laps and nobody actually extending on him, without having the
inherently fastest car in a straight line.
Yup. Moving through back markers ain't that hard.
LOL
--
Bozo bin
Texasgate
Heron
Enjoy!
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 01:19:48 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
Not to disparage Hamilton but...
Post by Alan Baker
Nope. Just him.
LOL.
So you claim to know the team had no way of knowing the pit lane was
closed?
No. I claim that Hamilton was aware of where the marshaling posts for
the event were located...

...and that it is ultimately the driver's responsibility to follow the
rules.

'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing
with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the pitlane is
closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and Hamilton
should have been aware of their location.

As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the teams
in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously it is
also in what forms part of the race director's event notes, which is
used for the drivers' meeting."'

<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
Bigbird
2020-09-08 16:25:33 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
Not to disparage Hamilton but...
Post by Alan Baker
Nope. Just him.
LOL.
So you claim to know the team had no way of knowing the pit lane was
closed?
No. I claim that Hamilton was aware of where the marshaling posts for
the event were located...
...and that it is ultimately the driver's responsibility to follow
the rules.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes
and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's event
notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>

Well then the comment "Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself),
fucked up hugely." does not seem inaccurate unless your only motivation
is to denigrate Hamilton.
--
Bozo bin
Texasgate
Heron
Enjoy!
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 19:44:11 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
Not to disparage Hamilton but...
Post by Alan Baker
Nope. Just him.
LOL.
So you claim to know the team had no way of knowing the pit lane was
closed?
No. I claim that Hamilton was aware of where the marshaling posts for
the event were located...
...and that it is ultimately the driver's responsibility to follow
the rules.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes
and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's event
notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
Well then the comment "Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself),
fucked up hugely." does not seem inaccurate unless your only motivation
is to denigrate Hamilton.
The team fucked up. But their fuck-up was in a moment of confusion in
the pits where someone failed to check "page" 4 of the information
they're provided by timing and scoring (by "page" I mean a video monitor).

The FIA/organizers fucked up by using a yellow cross, but writing up the
event notes that said it would be red.

But only Hamilton fucked up hugely:

'Hamilton admitted that he had not spotted the signals, as his focus was
on the right-hand side of the track and where the Magnussen incident was.'

<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>

He didn't say he saw the signals and failed to understand them because
of the colour: he just missed seeing them.

That's the huge fuck-up:

Missing a signal at (two!) marshaling post(s).
Bigbird
2020-09-11 17:06:28 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
Not to disparage Hamilton but...
Post by Alan Baker
Nope. Just him.
LOL.
So you claim to know the team had no way of knowing the pit
lane was closed?
No. I claim that Hamilton was aware of where the marshaling posts
for the event were located...
...and that it is ultimately the driver's responsibility to follow
the rules.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on
the outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both
Mercedes and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's
event notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Well then the comment "Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself),
fucked up hugely." does not seem inaccurate unless your only
motivation is to denigrate Hamilton.
The team fucked up. But their fuck-up was in a moment of confusion in
the pits where someone failed to check "page" 4 of the information
they're provided by timing and scoring (by "page" I mean a video monitor).
The FIA/organizers fucked up by using a yellow cross, but writing up
the event notes that said it would be red.
I see so you are pretending not to understand English.
--
Bozo bin
Texasgate
Heron
Enjoy!
Alan Baker
2020-09-11 17:48:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by geoff
Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself), fucked up hugely.
Not to disparage Hamilton but...
Post by Alan Baker
Nope. Just him.
LOL.
So you claim to know the team had no way of knowing the pit
lane was closed?
No. I claim that Hamilton was aware of where the marshaling posts
for the event were located...
...and that it is ultimately the driver's responsibility to follow
the rules.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on
the outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both
Mercedes and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's
event notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Well then the comment "Yes he, and the team (but moreso himself),
fucked up hugely." does not seem inaccurate unless your only
motivation is to denigrate Hamilton.
The team fucked up. But their fuck-up was in a moment of confusion in
the pits where someone failed to check "page" 4 of the information
they're provided by timing and scoring (by "page" I mean a video monitor).
The FIA/organizers fucked up by using a yellow cross, but writing up
the event notes that said it would be red.
I see so you are pretending not to understand English.
I see you fail to actually explain what you're claiming I didn't
understand...

Martin Harran
2020-09-07 09:28:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 14:16:49 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by CS
What a shambles by Chevy Chase and go. They are trying to prevent teams coaching drivers by radio but the singularly fail big time to post proper signs. A couple of weedy boards on the outside of the turn, well out of a driver's eyeline, when a humongous sign above the put Lane is flashing "BOX BOX". It should have been flashing "CLOSED" in RED.
Dipsticks. Worthy of a Texarse explosion.
Made for a good race with the young bloods though, so that was fun.
1. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be displayed
and where and then to obey them.
2. The signs were not out of the driver's eyeline. Each comes into view
dead ahead of the driver has he rounds the corner. And they're displayed
at precisely the same location as are used to display all the
other signals to the drivers (yellow, blue, etc.). Drivers know where to
look for those signs.. ...because they have to.
Yet again you know better than David Coulthard who has actually driven
an F1 car.
Post by Alan Baker
3. There are two of them in quick succession precisely because the
parabolica is such a fast turn that you need to be certain that a driver
DOES see a sign that indicates that he may come around the corner at
speed right into a problem...
...only Hamilton wasn't AT racing speed, was he? He missed TWO signs
despite being well below racing pace. The best drivers in the world are
supposed to be better than that.
4. It is the driver's responsibility to know what signs can be displayed
and where and then to obey them.
CS
2020-09-07 10:20:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Yet again you know better than David Coulthard who has actually driven an F1 car
Exactly. And he commented at the time that boards were out of the eyeline. 🤔
Bob Latham
2020-09-07 13:01:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CS
Yet again you know better than David Coulthard who has actually driven an F1 car
Exactly. And he commented at the time that boards were out of the
eyeline. #
Can't believe I'm defending Lewis a bit but in all fairness...

We are told that Lewis' side of the garage didn't pick up on the "Pit
lane closed" message but the other side did. So I assume Lewis was
told by his crew - Box Box. He then drives through one of the worlds
most challenging corners all be it, not flat out.

He would have in his mind 'leaving the track' and keeping as close to
the right hand side as possible to keep out of the way of others and
to enable pit lane entry.

I can well see that with a mind set like that he would subconsciously
dismiss the signs on the LHS as being about the track, which he was
leaving.

He did make a mistake I agree but it was a very understandable
mistake which I'm sure many would fall for just the same. Going to
see the stewards was a bit of a tantrum though which didn't do him
any favours.

It was such a rare event and that was also a factor. If this is about
safety, I would like to see pit lane close lights on the RHS well
before the pit entrance and some improvements in the messaging
system to teams to make sure they don't miss 'pit lane closed' in the
panic over 'safety car deployed'.

So for me he made an understandable mistake which was very bad luck.
He's still a tax dodging, preaching, virtue signalling....... pain.


Bob.
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 01:21:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Latham
Post by CS
Yet again you know better than David Coulthard who has actually driven an F1 car
Exactly. And he commented at the time that boards were out of the
eyeline. #
Can't believe I'm defending Lewis a bit but in all fairness...
We are told that Lewis' side of the garage didn't pick up on the "Pit
lane closed" message but the other side did. So I assume Lewis was
told by his crew - Box Box. He then drives through one of the worlds
most challenging corners all be it, not flat out.
He would have in his mind 'leaving the track' and keeping as close to
the right hand side as possible to keep out of the way of others and
to enable pit lane entry.
I can well see that with a mind set like that he would subconsciously
dismiss the signs on the LHS as being about the track, which he was
leaving.
It is in his job description that he knows where signals will be shown...

...that he pays attention to the signals that appear...

...and that he obeys the restrictions they place on him.

And the pit lane is a PART of the track.
Post by Bob Latham
He did make a mistake I agree but it was a very understandable
mistake which I'm sure many would fall for just the same. Going to
see the stewards was a bit of a tantrum though which didn't do him
any favours.
It was such a rare event and that was also a factor. If this is about
safety, I would like to see pit lane close lights on the RHS well
before the pit entrance and some improvements in the messaging
system to teams to make sure they don't miss 'pit lane closed' in the
panic over 'safety car deployed'.
So for me he made an understandable mistake which was very bad luck.
He's still a tax dodging, preaching, virtue signalling....... pain.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing
with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the pitlane is
closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and Hamilton
should have been aware of their location.

As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the teams
in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously it is
also in what forms part of the race director's event notes, which is
used for the drivers' meeting."'

<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
Bob Latham
2020-09-08 09:15:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bob Latham
Post by CS
Yet again you know better than David Coulthard who has actually driven an F1 car
Exactly. And he commented at the time that boards were out of the
eyeline. #
Can't believe I'm defending Lewis a bit but in all fairness...
We are told that Lewis' side of the garage didn't pick up on the
"Pit lane closed" message but the other side did. So I assume
Lewis was told by his crew - Box Box. He then drives through one
of the worlds most challenging corners all be it, not flat out.
He would have in his mind 'leaving the track' and keeping as
close to the right hand side as possible to keep out of the way
of others and to enable pit lane entry.
I can well see that with a mind set like that he would
subconsciously dismiss the signs on the LHS as being about the
track, which he was leaving.
It is in his job description that he knows where signals will be shown...
...that he pays attention to the signals that appear...
...and that he obeys the restrictions they place on him.
And the pit lane is a PART of the track.
Post by Bob Latham
He did make a mistake I agree but it was a very understandable
mistake which I'm sure many would fall for just the same. Going
to see the stewards was a bit of a tantrum though which didn't do
him any favours.
It was such a rare event and that was also a factor. If this is
about safety, I would like to see pit lane close lights on the
RHS well before the pit entrance and some improvements in the
messaging system to teams to make sure they don't miss 'pit lane
closed' in the panic over 'safety car deployed'.
So for me he made an understandable mistake which was very bad
luck. He's still a tax dodging, preaching, virtue
signalling....... pain.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on
the outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both
Mercedes and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's
event notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
I have not and do not deny anything you've said, but you've not
changed my opinion.

Bob.
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 19:45:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Latham
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bob Latham
Post by CS
Yet again you know better than David Coulthard who has actually driven an F1 car
Exactly. And he commented at the time that boards were out of the
eyeline. #
Can't believe I'm defending Lewis a bit but in all fairness...
We are told that Lewis' side of the garage didn't pick up on the
"Pit lane closed" message but the other side did. So I assume
Lewis was told by his crew - Box Box. He then drives through one
of the worlds most challenging corners all be it, not flat out.
He would have in his mind 'leaving the track' and keeping as
close to the right hand side as possible to keep out of the way
of others and to enable pit lane entry.
I can well see that with a mind set like that he would
subconsciously dismiss the signs on the LHS as being about the
track, which he was leaving.
It is in his job description that he knows where signals will be shown...
...that he pays attention to the signals that appear...
...and that he obeys the restrictions they place on him.
And the pit lane is a PART of the track.
Post by Bob Latham
He did make a mistake I agree but it was a very understandable
mistake which I'm sure many would fall for just the same. Going
to see the stewards was a bit of a tantrum though which didn't do
him any favours.
It was such a rare event and that was also a factor. If this is
about safety, I would like to see pit lane close lights on the
RHS well before the pit entrance and some improvements in the
messaging system to teams to make sure they don't miss 'pit lane
closed' in the panic over 'safety car deployed'.
So for me he made an understandable mistake which was very bad
luck. He's still a tax dodging, preaching, virtue
signalling....... pain.
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on
the outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were
flashing with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the
pitlane is closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to
teams in pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both
Mercedes and Hamilton should have been aware of their location.
As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the
teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram.
Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's
event notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."'
<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
I have not and do not deny anything you've said, but you've not
changed my opinion.
Your opinion informed by how many years of racing?

He admits to missing a signal at a marshaling post. That is a huge
failure on the part of a driver.
Bob Latham
2020-09-09 11:09:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bob Latham
I have not and do not deny anything you've said, but you've not
changed my opinion.
Your opinion informed by how many years of racing?
Really, you're really going to play that card?
Post by Alan Baker
He admits to missing a signal at a marshaling post. That is a huge
failure on the part of a driver.
Have I denied that? No.

Have you changed my opinion that it was understandable - no.
And I no longer even like LH.

Bob.
Mark
2020-09-09 11:12:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Latham
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bob Latham
I have not and do not deny anything you've said, but you've not
changed my opinion.
Your opinion informed by how many years of racing?
Really, you're really going to play that card?
Appeal to Accomplishment is a well known logical fallacy...
Alan Baker
2020-09-08 01:18:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CS
Yet again you know better than David Coulthard who has actually driven an F1 car
Exactly. And he commented at the time that boards were out of the eyeline. 🤔
'As he came through the corner, two red Pit Lane Status lights on the
outside, which are the regular marshalling signal posts, were flashing
with a cross. This cross is to signal to drivers that the pitlane is
closed. The location of these lights is highlighted to teams in
pre-event notes issued by the FIA (below), so both Mercedes and Hamilton
should have been aware of their location.

As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the teams
in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously it is
also in what forms part of the race director's event notes, which is
used for the drivers' meeting."'

<https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151960/the-key-questions-about-hamilton-closed-pit-penalty>
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