Discussion:
Wither Williams
(too old to reply)
Willsy
2018-06-15 00:52:39 UTC
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What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong? Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
t***@gmail.com
2018-06-15 04:11:29 UTC
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Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams?
britain
M2T
2018-06-15 09:27:11 UTC
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Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong? Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
You've only just noticed? They started slipping back down the order
after their first year with the Mercedes engine. They need a kick up the
arse and Paddy Lowe isn't the man for the job and neither is Clair
Williams. The problems may lie in a deep seated family dispute, with
Clair getting the nod over her brothers - not many people know about
Jonathan and Jaime. Elder brother Jonathan Williams runs the Williams
Heritage collection, Jaime has fucked off.
Michael Gooding
2018-06-15 10:51:07 UTC
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I don't recall the brothers even getting a mention in the Williams doc I watched recently. I can imagine Frank pissing them off, probably inadvertently.
~misfit~
2018-06-15 10:57:32 UTC
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Post by Michael Gooding
I don't recall the brothers even getting a mention in the Williams
doc I watched recently. I can imagine Frank pissing them off,
probably inadvertently.
One of them was mentioned / interviewed briefly in the 2017 "Williams" movie
/ doco and it was said he was bitter about the position going to Claire.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
M2T
2018-06-15 12:16:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Michael Gooding
I don't recall the brothers even getting a mention in the Williams
doc I watched recently. I can imagine Frank pissing them off,
probably inadvertently.
One of them was mentioned / interviewed briefly in the 2017 "Williams" movie
/ doco and it was said he was bitter about the position going to Claire.
The same film that exposed Frank Williams as an equal to the Dwarf with
his fraudulent racing car dealings.
b***@cam.ac.uk
2018-06-16 12:18:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Michael Gooding
I don't recall the brothers even getting a mention in the Williams
doc I watched recently. I can imagine Frank pissing them off,
probably inadvertently.
One of them was mentioned / interviewed briefly in the 2017 "Williams" movie
/ doco and it was said he was bitter about the position going to Claire.
Boo Hoo. If we was shit-hot he would claw is way up; obviously he's not.
Alister
2018-06-16 18:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@cam.ac.uk
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Michael Gooding
I don't recall the brothers even getting a mention in the Williams doc
I watched recently. I can imagine Frank pissing them off, probably
inadvertently.
One of them was mentioned / interviewed briefly in the 2017 "Williams"
movie / doco and it was said he was bitter about the position going to
Claire.
Boo Hoo. If we was shit-hot he would claw is way up; obviously he's not.
perhaps he is only half way there :-)
--
Q: What's the difference between USL and the Titanic?
A: The Titanic had a band.
larkim
2018-06-15 12:34:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by M2T
Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong? Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
You've only just noticed? They started slipping back down the order
after their first year with the Mercedes engine. They need a kick up the
arse and Paddy Lowe isn't the man for the job and neither is Clair
Williams. The problems may lie in a deep seated family dispute, with
Clair getting the nod over her brothers - not many people know about
Jonathan and Jaime. Elder brother Jonathan Williams runs the Williams
Heritage collection, Jaime has fucked off.
Irrespective of the deep seated problems in the family side of things, they
are just not getting the job done on the car each year.

When they had the Merc engine and could be relied on for topping the speed
gun lists, they had some hope. But this year they are truly woeful in a way
that other, less well funded teams aren't. A shame, as broadly they are a
team I'd prefer to be championing compared to McLaren for reasons of
history.
Sir Tim
2018-06-15 19:29:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong?
Arguably it all began to go wrong in 1996 when Adrian Newey, having been
blocked by Patrick Head from becoming Technical Director, was persuaded to
go to McLaren. But perhaps Williams’ decline could be more accurately dated
to 2004 when Sam Michael became Technical Director and Head was moved to
become Director of Engineering (Sam Michael later went on to spearhead the
decline of McLaren). The final blow came when Patrick Head himself resigned
from the company in 2010.
Post by Willsy
Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
I doubt that retaining Massa would have made much difference except to
diminish his reputation - the car is clearly a pig. As to Claire, her
appointment looks like nepotism, even if it wasn’t. Williams would have
done much better to appoint a well-regarded outsider (although, to be fair,
that is what they tried to do when appointing Sam Michael).

Difficult to see much future for this once great team.
--
Sir Tim
News
2018-06-15 19:31:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong?
Arguably it all began to go wrong in 1996 when Adrian Newey, having been
blocked by Patrick Head from becoming Technical Director, was persuaded to
go to McLaren. But perhaps Williams’ decline could be more accurately dated
to 2004 when Sam Michael became Technical Director and Head was moved to
become Director of Engineering (Sam Michael later went on to spearhead the
decline of McLaren). The final blow came when Patrick Head himself resigned
from the company in 2010.
Post by Willsy
Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
I doubt that retaining Massa would have made much difference except to
diminish his reputation - the car is clearly a pig. As to Claire, her
appointment looks like nepotism, even if it wasn’t. Williams would have
done much better to appoint a well-regarded outsider (although, to be fair,
that is what they tried to do when appointing Sam Michael).
Difficult to see much future for this once great team.
Meanwhile, Force India is on the Liberty dole...
Sir Tim
2018-06-15 19:37:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by News
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong?
Arguably it all began to go wrong in 1996 when Adrian Newey, having been
blocked by Patrick Head from becoming Technical Director, was persuaded to
go to McLaren. But perhaps Williams’ decline could be more accurately dated
to 2004 when Sam Michael became Technical Director and Head was moved to
become Director of Engineering (Sam Michael later went on to spearhead the
decline of McLaren). The final blow came when Patrick Head himself resigned
from the company in 2010.
Post by Willsy
Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
I doubt that retaining Massa would have made much difference except to
diminish his reputation - the car is clearly a pig. As to Claire, her
appointment looks like nepotism, even if it wasn’t. Williams would have
done much better to appoint a well-regarded outsider (although, to be fair,
that is what they tried to do when appointing Sam Michael).
Difficult to see much future for this once great team.
Meanwhile, Force India is on the Liberty dole...
Where would you put money, Force India or Williams?
News
2018-06-15 19:56:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sir Tim
Post by News
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong?
Arguably it all began to go wrong in 1996 when Adrian Newey, having been
blocked by Patrick Head from becoming Technical Director, was persuaded to
go to McLaren. But perhaps Williams’ decline could be more accurately dated
to 2004 when Sam Michael became Technical Director and Head was moved to
become Director of Engineering (Sam Michael later went on to spearhead the
decline of McLaren). The final blow came when Patrick Head himself resigned
from the company in 2010.
Post by Willsy
Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
I doubt that retaining Massa would have made much difference except to
diminish his reputation - the car is clearly a pig. As to Claire, her
appointment looks like nepotism, even if it wasn’t. Williams would have
done much better to appoint a well-regarded outsider (although, to be fair,
that is what they tried to do when appointing Sam Michael).
Difficult to see much future for this once great team.
Meanwhile, Force India is on the Liberty dole...
Where would you put money, Force India or Williams?
Liberty shouldn't be in the business of propping up "exhibitors"
M2T
2018-06-15 19:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sir Tim
Post by News
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong?
Arguably it all began to go wrong in 1996 when Adrian Newey, having been
blocked by Patrick Head from becoming Technical Director, was persuaded to
go to McLaren. But perhaps Williams’ decline could be more accurately dated
to 2004 when Sam Michael became Technical Director and Head was moved to
become Director of Engineering (Sam Michael later went on to spearhead the
decline of McLaren). The final blow came when Patrick Head himself resigned
from the company in 2010.
Post by Willsy
Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
I doubt that retaining Massa would have made much difference except to
diminish his reputation - the car is clearly a pig. As to Claire, her
appointment looks like nepotism, even if it wasn’t. Williams would have
done much better to appoint a well-regarded outsider (although, to be fair,
that is what they tried to do when appointing Sam Michael).
Difficult to see much future for this once great team.
Meanwhile, Force India is on the Liberty dole...
Where would you put money, Force India or Williams?
Neither get money from LM
Post by Sir Tim
https://www.pitpass.com/62042/Rivals-teams-blocked-Force-India-cash-advances
News
2018-06-15 20:24:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by M2T
Post by Sir Tim
Post by News
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong?
Arguably it all began to go wrong in 1996 when Adrian Newey, having been
blocked by Patrick Head from becoming Technical Director, was persuaded to
go to McLaren. But perhaps Williams’ decline could be more accurately dated
to 2004 when Sam Michael became Technical Director and Head was moved to
become Director of Engineering (Sam Michael later went on to spearhead the
decline of McLaren). The final blow came when Patrick Head himself resigned
from the company in 2010.
Post by Willsy
Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
I doubt that retaining Massa would have made much difference except to
diminish his reputation - the car is clearly a pig. As to Claire, her
appointment looks like nepotism, even if it wasn’t. Williams would have
done much better to appoint a well-regarded outsider (although, to be fair,
that is what they tried to do when appointing Sam Michael).
Difficult to see much future for this once great team.
Meanwhile, Force India is on the Liberty dole...
Where would you put money, Force India or Williams?
Neither get money from LM
Post by Sir Tim
https://www.pitpass.com/62042/Rivals-teams-blocked-Force-India-cash-advances
FI did reportedly get a guarantee out of LM...
M2T
2018-06-15 19:56:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Willsy
What the hell has happened to Williams? Where did it start to go wrong?
Arguably it all began to go wrong in 1996 when Adrian Newey, having been
blocked by Patrick Head from becoming Technical Director, was persuaded to
go to McLaren. But perhaps Williams’ decline could be more accurately dated
to 2004 when Sam Michael became Technical Director and Head was moved to
become Director of Engineering (Sam Michael later went on to spearhead the
decline of McLaren). The final blow came when Patrick Head himself resigned
from the company in 2010.
Post by Willsy
Should they have kept Massa for another season? Is it time for Claire to go?
I doubt that retaining Massa would have made much difference except to
diminish his reputation - the car is clearly a pig. As to Claire, her
appointment looks like nepotism, even if it wasn’t. Williams would have
done much better to appoint a well-regarded outsider (although, to be fair,
that is what they tried to do when appointing Sam Michael).
Difficult to see much future for this once great team.
Adam Parr was lined up to run Williams, until Frank was ordered by the
Dwarf to dump him. I don't suppose we'll every get to the bottom of that
episode until the Dwarf pops his clogs. It does bring up the question,
how much does Williams owe Bernie for its survival?
John
2018-06-15 19:43:15 UTC
Permalink
I suppose it depends on what one expects from the team. They don't need a lot to be predictable mid placers. If your expecting them to replace Merc or Ferrari or RB at the top, yeah, it'd take wholesale change.
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