Discussion:
Going back in time!
(too old to reply)
Yousuf Khan
2020-04-24 03:34:15 UTC
Permalink
So to pass away my COVID-19 free time at home, I subscribed to the F1 TV
app and started watching races from when I first started watching F1.
The F1 TV website has races going back to 1981, which is pretty close to
the years I first started watching the show (though wish they had races
going back to 1978 at least). Now, it's quite eye opening how much has
changed between now and then. I've been watching since the 80's, and I
know there have been changes but it's hard to put your finger on
everything that's changed, if you've been following it the slow way,
year after year. But when do the big rewind, OMG, it's a revelation!

For example, we complain about how much more competitive it was back
then, compared to now, there were so many different winners from so many
different teams back then. What I'm starting to remember about racing
back in the early 80's is that it was often based on random chance about
who wins it. Somebody might be leading most of the race, and then all of
a sudden his car fails, this happened quite a bit in the 80's. It wasn't
that people were passing each other all that much more often, people
were inheriting wins just by having a more reliable car during that race.

Another complaint we have these days is that too much passing is done in
the pits, compared to before. This is true, but that's because in the
past they never used the pitstops as strategic maneuvers. In fact,
they'd avoid doing pitstops if at all possible for the whole race. If a
car came into the pits back then, people would be trying to figure out
what's wrong with the car that it needed to come into the pits? Just
changing tires took over 10 seconds, rather than today's best-in-class
2.5 second stops. These days we wonder what went wrong if the stop took
more than 3.5 seconds.

There was an example from 1982's South African GP, where the two Renault
cars of Prost and Arnoux qualified on the front row of the GP. Somewhere
in the middle of the race Prost's car developed a puncture, the tire
delaminated, and Prost made it back to the pits on 3 wheels, but not
before the blown tire had slapped the bodywork of his car to all hell,
lots of aerodynamic pieces got slapped off. In the meantime, his
teammate Arnoux was continuing on, no blown tires, and his bodywork was
completely intact. Before the end of the race, Prost took his damaged
Renault and got it ahead of undamaged Renault of Arnoux and won the
race! So basically Prost was lucky to have gotten a puncture, because it
allowed him to change his tires. These days, this is already known
about, the teams all know how much life a tire has on it, and they plan
ahead of time to come in and change it. This was unthinkable back then!

Just saying, that if we think we can recapture a bit of the nostalgia of
the past, we can't, F1 is just too sophisticated and professional these
days to go back to the way things were back then. It's a victim of its
own success. And I really don't think we'd want to see things go back to
way things were back then!

Yousuf Khan
Bruce Hoult
2020-04-24 07:00:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
So to pass away my COVID-19 free time at home, I subscribed to the F1 TV
app and started watching races from when I first started watching F1.
The F1 TV website has races going back to 1981, which is pretty close to
the years I first started watching the show (though wish they had races
going back to 1978 at least). Now, it's quite eye opening how much has
changed between now and then. I've been watching since the 80's, and I
know there have been changes but it's hard to put your finger on
everything that's changed, if you've been following it the slow way,
year after year. But when do the big rewind, OMG, it's a revelation!
For example, we complain about how much more competitive it was back
then, compared to now, there were so many different winners from so many
different teams back then. What I'm starting to remember about racing
back in the early 80's is that it was often based on random chance about
who wins it. Somebody might be leading most of the race, and then all of
a sudden his car fails, this happened quite a bit in the 80's. It wasn't
that people were passing each other all that much more often, people
were inheriting wins just by having a more reliable car during that race.
Another complaint we have these days is that too much passing is done in
the pits, compared to before. This is true, but that's because in the
past they never used the pitstops as strategic maneuvers. In fact,
they'd avoid doing pitstops if at all possible for the whole race. If a
car came into the pits back then, people would be trying to figure out
what's wrong with the car that it needed to come into the pits? Just
changing tires took over 10 seconds, rather than today's best-in-class
2.5 second stops. These days we wonder what went wrong if the stop took
more than 3.5 seconds.
There was an example from 1982's South African GP, where the two Renault
cars of Prost and Arnoux qualified on the front row of the GP. Somewhere
in the middle of the race Prost's car developed a puncture, the tire
delaminated, and Prost made it back to the pits on 3 wheels, but not
before the blown tire had slapped the bodywork of his car to all hell,
lots of aerodynamic pieces got slapped off. In the meantime, his
teammate Arnoux was continuing on, no blown tires, and his bodywork was
completely intact. Before the end of the race, Prost took his damaged
Renault and got it ahead of undamaged Renault of Arnoux and won the
race! So basically Prost was lucky to have gotten a puncture, because it
allowed him to change his tires. These days, this is already known
about, the teams all know how much life a tire has on it, and they plan
ahead of time to come in and change it. This was unthinkable back then!
Just saying, that if we think we can recapture a bit of the nostalgia of
the past, we can't, F1 is just too sophisticated and professional these
days to go back to the way things were back then. It's a victim of its
own success. And I really don't think we'd want to see things go back to
way things were back then!
Yes. The other day I was watching an old Monaco race (mid 90s) where only three cars took the chequered flag! Not one but two drivers (Damon Hill and Jean Alesi) had absolutely unassailable leads -- like 30 or 40 seconds over 2nd place -- and then had car failures.
Yousuf Khan
2020-04-26 03:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Hoult
Yes. The other day I was watching an old Monaco race (mid 90s) where only three cars took the chequered flag! Not one but two drivers (Damon Hill and Jean Alesi) had absolutely unassailable leads -- like 30 or 40 seconds over 2nd place -- and then had car failures.
Rewatching some of these old races, I'm starting to have different
opinions of some of these drivers. I didn't think Keke Rosberg was a
really deserving WC of 1982, since he only had 1 win and others had had
2 or 3 wins that year, but now I see that he was in the hunt in most of
those races, always finishing pretty far up, consistent points finishes,
even while being robbed of podium finishes at some races due to
scrutineering, he still ended up winning it.

Another one is Andrea De Cesaris, who I mainly think of as a joke who
stayed way too long, you know the James Hunt "Andrea De Crasheris"
smear, etc. But there were moments of brilliance especially in 1982. He
sort of reminds me of Romain Grosjean now.

Another thing I had a skewed impression of was the Ford Cosworth engines
and how much of a disadvantage they had to the turbos. They really
weren't at much of a disadvantage in the races, they may not have been
producing the pole positions next to the Renaults, but they were more
than capable of overtaking the Renaults & Ferraris in certain races.

Yousuf Khan
D Munz
2020-04-24 14:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
So to pass away my COVID-19 free time at home, I subscribed to the F1 TV
app and started watching races from when I first started watching F1.
The F1 TV website has races going back to 1981, which is pretty close to
the years I first started watching the show (though wish they had races
going back to 1978 at least).
<snip>
Post by Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
This is interesting. I'm sure that they had the much older material loaded in the archive at one time. When they first opened up F1TV, I remember going through the years and watching some of the very old (70's) material. I think I remember that anyway...

It wasn't full races but there were highlight videos. (I think I even posted about it. I'll have a look through the RASF1 archive.)

I wonder why that may have changed?

FWIW
DLM
Sir Tim
2020-04-24 18:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by D Munz
Post by Yousuf Khan
So to pass away my COVID-19 free time at home, I subscribed to the F1 TV
app and started watching races from when I first started watching F1.
The F1 TV website has races going back to 1981, which is pretty close to
the years I first started watching the show (though wish they had races
going back to 1978 at least).
<snip>
Post by Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
This is interesting. I'm sure that they had the much older material
loaded in the archive at one time. When they first opened up F1TV, I
remember going through the years and watching some of the very old (70's)
material. I think I remember that anyway...
I’m struggling to think of material from the 1970s as “very old” :-)
--
Sir Tim
D Munz
2020-04-25 16:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sir Tim
Post by D Munz
Post by Yousuf Khan
So to pass away my COVID-19 free time at home, I subscribed to the F1 TV
app and started watching races from when I first started watching F1.
The F1 TV website has races going back to 1981, which is pretty close to
the years I first started watching the show (though wish they had races
going back to 1978 at least).
<snip>
Post by Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
This is interesting. I'm sure that they had the much older material
loaded in the archive at one time. When they first opened up F1TV, I
remember going through the years and watching some of the very old (70's)
material. I think I remember that anyway...
I’m struggling to think of material from the 1970s as “very old” :-)
--
Sir Tim
Fair Point!

I don't consider myself that old but I did recently complete a survey where I fell to the last tick on the list which was "born before 1964". A bit of a cold slap...

FWIW
DLM
Mark Jackson
2020-04-25 18:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by D Munz
I don't consider myself that old but I did recently complete a survey
where I fell to the last tick on the list which was "born before
1964". A bit of a cold slap...
Could be worse:

Loading Image...
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Why have citizens when you can have customers?
- Sebastien Hayakawa (Aaron Diaz)
Yousuf Khan
2020-04-26 01:41:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by D Munz
I don't consider myself that old but I did recently complete a survey
where I fell to the last tick on the list which was "born before
1964". A bit of a cold slap...
http://www.mark-jackson.online/Zits_scroll_down.gif
Yeah, I got that problem nowadays too, I gotta keep scrolling down to
get to my year. They should just let you type your year in, it's a lot
faster.

Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
2020-04-26 03:21:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by D Munz
This is interesting. I'm sure that they had the much older material loaded in the archive at one time. When they first opened up F1TV, I remember going through the years and watching some of the very old (70's) material. I think I remember that anyway...
It wasn't full races but there were highlight videos. (I think I even posted about it. I'll have a look through the RASF1 archive.)
I wonder why that may have changed?
FWIW
DLM
I assume perhaps the reason is that they wanted only full seasons
available, and they may not have had full seasons prior to 1981? I
really want to watch the 1979 French GP, and the 1978 Canadian GP. I've
obviously seen the snippets from those races before, but I'd like to see
it from start to finish.

Yousuf Khan
Vasco Costa
2020-05-05 11:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by D Munz
This is interesting. I'm sure that they had the much older material loaded in the archive at one time. When they first opened up F1TV, I remember going through the years and watching some of the very old (70's) material. I think I remember that anyway...
It wasn't full races but there were highlight videos. (I think I even posted about it. I'll have a look through the RASF1 archive.)
I wonder why that may have changed?
FWIW
DLM
I assume perhaps the reason is that they wanted only full seasons
available, and they may not have had full seasons prior to 1981? I
really want to watch the 1979 French GP, and the 1978 Canadian GP. I've
obviously seen the snippets from those races before, but I'd like to see
it from start to finish.
Yousuf Khan
I believe the problem is that F1 doesn't own the rights to most races
before the 2000s. Race footage was done by the local TVs around each
country and they still hold the rights to most of those races. In the
2000s FOM started shooting the races with their own team all around the
world.
--
Vasco Costa

AKA gluon. Enthusiastic about computers, motorsports, science,
technology, travelling and TV series. Yes I'm a bit of a geek.

Gopher hole: gopher://gopher.gluon.me/
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-06 04:53:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vasco Costa
I believe the problem is that F1 doesn't own the rights to most races
before the 2000s. Race footage was done by the local TVs around each
country and they still hold the rights to most of those races. In the
2000s FOM started shooting the races with their own team all around the
world.
I think Liberty probably has the money to buy licenses to these older
material, if available? They could even enter into revenue sharing
agreements with original rights holders.

Yousuf Khan

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