Discussion:
When did pitstops become a strategic maneuver rather than an emergency?
(too old to reply)
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-02 02:29:02 UTC
Permalink
Been watching the old races from the early 80's, and pitstops are still
considered something that happens if the car is in trouble, and not
something done as a matter of strategy for new tires or fuel, etc.? I'm
thinking it was routine by the mid-90's, but I can't think of when it
started to change, maybe 88 or something?

Yousuf Khan
Brian Lawrence
2020-05-02 10:36:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
Been watching the old races from the early 80's, and pitstops are still
considered something that happens if the car is in trouble, and not
something done as a matter of strategy for new tires or fuel, etc.? I'm
thinking it was routine by the mid-90's, but I can't think of when it
started to change, maybe 88 or something?
An initial check suggests 1991, but I'm not quite sure.
Brian Lawrence
2020-05-02 10:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Yousuf Khan
Been watching the old races from the early 80's, and pitstops are
still considered something that happens if the car is in trouble, and
not something done as a matter of strategy for new tires or fuel,
etc.? I'm thinking it was routine by the mid-90's, but I can't think
of when it started to change, maybe 88 or something?
An initial check suggests 1991, but I'm not quite sure.
In '91 most cars only stopped once - unless they needed repairs - so
they were doing two stints with a change of tyres mid-race.

From '94 refuelling was permitted and two stops for fuel and tyres (FAT)
was normal.

Refuelling was banned from 2009.

Tyre changes were banned in 2005, but reinstated in 2006. From 2007
two tyre compounds were required to be used during a race.
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-02 12:26:02 UTC
Permalink
n '91 most cars only stopped once - unless they needed repairs - so they
were doing two stints with a change of tyres mid-race.
From '94 refuelling was permitted and two stops for fuel and tyres (FAT)
was normal.
Refuelling was banned from 2009.
Tyre changes were banned in 2005, but reinstated in 2006. From 2007
two tyre compounds were required to be used during a race.
God, I don't even remember that tire changes were banned in 2005. But I
do seem to recall that refuelling was banned at least a couple of times,
not just 2009.

Racing in the 1980's is very different than it is nowadays, but I never
noticed such huge changes over the years, because I was watching them in
real-time. Couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-02 23:10:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Yousuf Khan
Been watching the old races from the early 80's, and pitstops are
still considered something that happens if the car is in trouble, and
not something done as a matter of strategy for new tires or fuel,
etc.? I'm thinking it was routine by the mid-90's, but I can't think
of when it started to change, maybe 88 or something?
An initial check suggests 1991, but I'm not quite sure.
Just as I asked this question, I'm watching the 82 season, and it looks
like the Brabham-BMW's of that year were getting ready to introduce
pitstops for that year. They announced that they were going to do
strategic pitstop in the British GP and then the French GP, with both a
tire change and a refuel. But those BMW turbo engines were so blow-uppy
that they both went out before they could even get to their first
pitstops in both races. I'll see if they ever manage to get to a pitstop
later in the season. :-)

The announcers were even excited to see what a strategic pitstop looked
like that year. Brabham had outfitted their mechanics with fireproof
overalls too.

Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-03 04:55:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by Brian Lawrence
Post by Yousuf Khan
Been watching the old races from the early 80's, and pitstops are
still considered something that happens if the car is in trouble, and
not something done as a matter of strategy for new tires or fuel,
etc.? I'm thinking it was routine by the mid-90's, but I can't think
of when it started to change, maybe 88 or something?
An initial check suggests 1991, but I'm not quite sure.
Just as I asked this question, I'm watching the 82 season, and it looks
like the Brabham-BMW's of that year were getting ready to introduce
pitstops for that year. They announced that they were going to do
strategic pitstop in the British GP and then the French GP, with both a
tire change and a refuel. But those BMW turbo engines were so blow-uppy
that they both went out before they could even get to their first
pitstops in both races. I'll see if they ever manage to get to a pitstop
later in the season. :-)
The announcers were even excited to see what a strategic pitstop looked
like that year. Brabham had outfitted their mechanics with fireproof
overalls too.
    Yousuf Khan
So the first ever strategic pitstop finally happened in the Austrian GP
of 82, with the Brabham-BMW's! The BMW's remained reliable long enough
to actually get to their pitstops, this time. They both blew up later
after their pitstops, Patrese was in the lead when his blew up and he
spun out, and Piquet just coasted to an inglorious end.

The announcers were all very excited about it, they realized it was a
historical event.

Yousuf Khan
Brian Lawrence
2020-05-03 07:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
So the first ever strategic pitstop finally happened in the Austrian GP
of 82, with the Brabham-BMW's! The BMW's remained reliable long enough
to actually get to their pitstops, this time. They both blew up later
after their pitstops, Patrese was in the lead when his blew up and he
spun out, and Piquet just coasted to an inglorious end.
The announcers were all very excited about it, they realized it was a
historical event.
From this website: https://www.statsf1.com/en/1982/autriche.aspx

"18th: The long awaited moment finally arrives ... but too soon! Piquet
enters the pits for his refueling with eight laps ahead of schedule. Its
mechanics must get their hands on new tires. They refuel the Brabham
with petrol and attach soft “A” type tires, harder than the “B” which
blistered. The operation lasts half a minute. Piquet took the track in
fourth position, just in front of Rosberg."

Auto-translated from French.

'The operation lasts half a minute'!

Patrese pitted on lap 25 and retained the lead. There were a total
of 6 pit stops in the race - the other 4 were Tambay (lap 2), Arnoux
(15), Mansell (16), Surer (25).
Mark Jackson
2020-05-03 13:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
So the first ever strategic pitstop finally happened in the Austrian
GP of 82, with the Brabham-BMW's!
So does the 1958 Argentine GP count as the first strategic non-pitstop
(Moss, Cooper-Climax)?
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
After a certain point in one's career, the worry that
they'll finally notice your true absence of talent
morphs into worrying that they'll finally notice
that you've Lost It. - William Gibson
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-03 15:26:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Jackson
So does the 1958 Argentine GP count as the first strategic non-pitstop
(Moss, Cooper-Climax)?
Don't know, they don't have that one in the F1 Archives. What was it about?

Yousuf Khan
Mark Jackson
2020-05-03 18:16:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by Mark Jackson
So does the 1958 Argentine GP count as the first strategic non-pitstop
(Moss, Cooper-Climax)?
Don't know, they don't have that one in the F1 Archives. What was it about?
"With the race set to be held in very hot conditions the race was
shortened from 400 kilometres to 313. The shorter race led the Walker
team to consider running the race without stopping for tyres. The car's
four stud wheels would take almost two laps to complete a tyre change,
much slower than their Ferrari and Maserati rivals. Moss and his team
began a deception, complaining about the tyre situation and how much
time they would lose changing tyres."

And then they didn't stop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Argentine_Grand_Prix

There seem to be short videos. Google "argentine gp 1958".
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
After a certain point in one's career, the worry that
they'll finally notice your true absence of talent
morphs into worrying that they'll finally notice
that you've Lost It. - William Gibson
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-04 07:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by Mark Jackson
So does the 1958 Argentine GP count as the first strategic non-pitstop
(Moss, Cooper-Climax)?
Don't know, they don't have that one in the F1 Archives. What was it about?
"With the race set to be held in very hot conditions the race was
shortened from 400 kilometres to 313. The shorter race led the Walker
team to consider running the race without stopping for tyres. The car's
four stud wheels would take almost two laps to complete a tyre change,
much slower than their Ferrari and Maserati rivals. Moss and his team
began a deception, complaining about the tyre situation and how much
time they would lose changing tyres."
And then they didn't stop.
That sounds like a strategic non-pitstop, rather than a strategic pitstop.

Yousuf Khan
Sir Tim
2020-05-04 09:15:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by Mark Jackson
So does the 1958 Argentine GP count as the first strategic non-pitstop
(Moss, Cooper-Climax)?
Don't know, they don't have that one in the F1 Archives. What was it about?
"With the race set to be held in very hot conditions the race was
shortened from 400 kilometres to 313. The shorter race led the Walker
team to consider running the race without stopping for tyres. The car's
four stud wheels would take almost two laps to complete a tyre change,
much slower than their Ferrari and Maserati rivals. Moss and his team
began a deception, complaining about the tyre situation and how much
time they would lose changing tyres."
And then they didn't stop.
That sounds like a strategic non-pitstop, rather than a strategic pitstop.
Yousuf Khan
Errr ... that’s what Mark said :-)
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-05 03:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
That sounds like a strategic non-pitstop, rather than a strategic pitstop.
Yousuf Khan
Errr ... that’s what Mark said:-)
Well then, I guess that would be the first strategic non-pitstop.
--
Sent from Giganews on Thunderbird on my Toshiba laptop
Bigbird
2020-05-02 11:00:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
Been watching the old races from the early 80's, and pitstops are
still considered something that happens if the car is in trouble, and
not something done as a matter of strategy for new tires or fuel,
etc.? I'm thinking it was routine by the mid-90's, but I can't think
of when it started to change, maybe 88 or something?
Here's an article on refuelling you may like.

https://www.enterf1.com/blog/083-the-bite-point
--
"However much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing."
~ George Orwell

Impeached President Trump 16,241 false or misleading claims in his
first three years

"So if you only watch Fox News, because it's
reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
m***@yahoo.co.uk
2020-05-12 15:04:34 UTC
Permalink
as others have answered, it was first tried by the Brabham team (Nelson Piquet and Riccardo Patrese) at the 1982 Austrian GP - a tactic devised by Gordon Murray - he of the `fan car' from a few years earlier - he was always looking for an edge.

(it was a chaotic race in a chaotic season - highlights still get shown on Sky Sports F1 but I don't think it gets a mention in the commentary because of all the other background issues that were going on and the various dramas in the race itself).

It didn't work anyway - both cars retired with engine trouble around the halfway point.

It took a few races to start working, and wasn't copied by the other teams until it did and the theory had become conclusive a few races further on from that.

I seem to remember it was banned the season after Keke Rosberg's car caught fire during a pit stop (which Google says was the 1983 Brazilian GP - the first race of the next year!) In fact he carried on after it was put out and "finished" 2nd - but was dq'd for being pushed out of the pits.

this website confirms the 1984 ban but doesn't cite the Rosberg incident - but i'm sure that was the reason - https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2202731-the-evolution-of-formula-1-pit-stops-speed-and-consistency
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