Discussion:
Lewis and Max
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D Munz
2018-04-12 12:23:26 UTC
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I'm not quite sure what to make of Lewis' outreach to Max this week. On one had, going over for a quick handshake and all that seems like a good thing to do.

On the other hand, throwing out comments to the effect of '...as the older, wiser driver...' and '...since my team is competing at the front, I have to be more careful...' just screams "mind games."

And then DR jumped right in with his "I would have gone for the pass" comment.

Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.

We will see.

FWIW
DLM
~misfit~
2018-04-12 14:09:28 UTC
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Post by D Munz
I'm not quite sure what to make of Lewis' outreach to Max this week.
On one had, going over for a quick handshake and all that seems like
a good thing to do.
On the other hand, throwing out comments to the effect of '...as the
older, wiser driver...' and '...since my team is competing at the
front, I have to be more careful...' just screams "mind games."
Max has been saying to the media that he thinks Lewis has been blaming hinm
because he's the younger driver and not a front runner. Never mind that he
chopped Lewis off and left him nowhere to go.
Post by D Munz
And then DR jumped right in with his "I would have gone for the pass" comment.
DR? Oh Dan Ric? Yeah he would have but I bet he would have left more room
for Lewis than Max did. He knows to not risk getting a puncture if he can
help it.
Post by D Munz
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
If it is they were started by Max. I've said it before, I don't think Max
currently has the right attitude to develop as a driver and is running out
of that raw talent - it only takes you so far.
Post by D Munz
We will see.
Indeed.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
larkim
2018-04-12 14:17:03 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
I'm not quite sure what to make of Lewis' outreach to Max this week.
On one had, going over for a quick handshake and all that seems like
a good thing to do.
On the other hand, throwing out comments to the effect of '...as the
older, wiser driver...' and '...since my team is competing at the
front, I have to be more careful...' just screams "mind games."
Max has been saying to the media that he thinks Lewis has been blaming hinm
because he's the younger driver and not a front runner. Never mind that he
chopped Lewis off and left him nowhere to go.
Post by D Munz
And then DR jumped right in with his "I would have gone for the pass" comment.
DR? Oh Dan Ric? Yeah he would have but I bet he would have left more room
for Lewis than Max did. He knows to not risk getting a puncture if he can
help it.
Post by D Munz
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
If it is they were started by Max. I've said it before, I don't think Max
currently has the right attitude to develop as a driver and is running out
of that raw talent - it only takes you so far.
Post by D Munz
We will see.
Indeed.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Is it just in my mind, or has Max been the author of his own misfortune on
a number of occasions now?

If I was driving F1 2002 on the PC a few years ago, the move he made on
Lewis would have been what I would have done - knowing that I'd just restart
the game if it went wrong.

Is it fair to characterise Max as driving as if it was a computer game?

Probably unfair, with a hint of truth?
D Munz
2018-04-12 16:14:25 UTC
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On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 9:09:33 AM UTC-5, ~misfit~ wrote:
<snip>
Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
And then DR jumped right in with his "I would have gone for the pass" comment.
DR? Oh Dan Ric? Yeah he would have but I bet he would have left more room
for Lewis than Max did. He knows to not risk getting a puncture if he can
help it.
<snip>
Post by ~misfit~
Indeed.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
I kind of mixed things up with the DR comment, sorry. I was referring to his dish on Bottas not having a go at Seb at the end of the race. I think both Lewis and Danny are trying to plant seeds of doubt.

If that is the case, it is interesting that Lewis would be working on Max (and Red Bull) over Ferrari. I guess if he spins up Max to the point Max does something silly, he has one less car to focus on.

It is howver fully understandable that Danny would be going after Bottas.

FWIW
DLM
geoff
2018-04-12 20:00:31 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
If it is they were started by Max. I've said it before, I don't think Max
currently has the right attitude to develop as a driver and is running out
of that raw talent - it only takes you so far.
Post by D Munz
We will see.
Indeed.
One day far in the future, multi-WC MV look look back and say, "Jesus I
was a dick-head little twerp back then. Should have had a root or two
to get rid of some of that testosterone".

geoff
t***@gmail.com
2018-04-12 22:07:18 UTC
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Should have had a root or two to get rid of some of that testosterone".
Homosexual pervert.
~misfit~
2018-04-13 00:19:30 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
If it is they were started by Max. I've said it before, I don't
think Max currently has the right attitude to develop as a driver
and is running out of that raw talent - it only takes you so far.
Post by D Munz
We will see.
Indeed.
One day far in the future, multi-WC MV look look back and say, "Jesus
I was a dick-head little twerp back then. Should have had a root or
two to get rid of some of that testosterone".
geoff
Quite possibly - though I think he's likely not having trouble getting his
end away now. I'm not saying he won't one day be a champion maybe, just that
it's not going to be for a while as he's heading in the wrong direction
currently. Believing his own legend instead of finishing his apprenticeship.

For instance the spin out in qually where he claimed there was a 150hp surge
of power that spun him out. In an interview where Sky were really pushing
Horner as to the cause Horner carefully and wordilly said that there was an
unexpected blip in the throttle trace and they'd work to make sure it didn't
happen again. He essentially said Max applied too much throttle (without
saying it and undermining his driver) but the interviewer missed it, lost in
all the words and too busy thinking about the next question... The next day
Max was still talking about a software glitch. His problem is that he won't
take responsibility for his errors (it's never his fault...) and until he
does he can't eliminate them.

He reminds me of some of the lyrics in a certain Carly Simon song. (He
prob'ly thinks this post is about him.)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
geoff
2018-04-13 00:51:54 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by geoff
Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
If it is they were started by Max. I've said it before, I don't
think Max currently has the right attitude to develop as a driver
and is running out of that raw talent - it only takes you so far.
Post by D Munz
We will see.
Indeed.
One day far in the future, multi-WC MV look look back and say, "Jesus
I was a dick-head little twerp back then. Should have had a root or
two to get rid of some of that testosterone".
geoff
Quite possibly - though I think he's likely not having trouble getting his
end away now.
Yeah I guess there are plenty of receptacles somewhere for well-off
ulgy-as-fuck twerps.

geoff
t***@gmail.com
2018-04-13 03:27:32 UTC
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Post by geoff
Yeah I guess there are plenty of receptacles somewhere for well-off
ulgy-as-fuck twerps.
Sounds like you cannot even buy homosexual sex.
~misfit~
2018-04-13 04:21:57 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by ~misfit~
Post by geoff
Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
If it is they were started by Max. I've said it before, I don't
think Max currently has the right attitude to develop as a driver
and is running out of that raw talent - it only takes you so far.
Post by D Munz
We will see.
Indeed.
One day far in the future, multi-WC MV look look back and say,
"Jesus I was a dick-head little twerp back then. Should have had a
root or two to get rid of some of that testosterone".
Quite possibly - though I think he's likely not having trouble
getting his end away now.
Yeah I guess there are plenty of receptacles somewhere for well-off
ulgy-as-fuck twerps.
Which makes him even less likely to stay grounded. The cult of Max is a very
real thing in parts of Europe (and elsewhere, even sneaking into this group
from time to time..).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2018-04-13 04:34:17 UTC
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The cult of Max is a very real thing in parts of Europe (and elsewhere, even sneaking into this group
from time to time..).
You fucking brain dead stupid cunt.
t***@gmail.com
2018-04-13 04:08:16 UTC
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he's heading in the wrong direction currently.
The direction you took?
~misfit~
2018-04-13 07:54:09 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by geoff
Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
If it is they were started by Max. I've said it before, I don't
think Max currently has the right attitude to develop as a driver
and is running out of that raw talent - it only takes you so far.
Post by D Munz
We will see.
Indeed.
One day far in the future, multi-WC MV look look back and say, "Jesus
I was a dick-head little twerp back then. Should have had a root or
two to get rid of some of that testosterone".
Quite possibly - though I think he's likely not having trouble
getting his end away now. I'm not saying he won't one day be a
champion maybe, just that it's not going to be for a while as he's
heading in the wrong direction currently. Believing his own legend
instead of finishing his apprenticeship.
For instance the spin out in qually where he claimed there was a
150hp surge of power that spun him out. In an interview where Sky
were really pushing Horner as to the cause Horner carefully and
wordilly said that there was an unexpected blip in the throttle trace
and they'd work to make sure it didn't happen again. He essentially
said Max applied too much throttle (without saying it and undermining
his driver) but the interviewer missed it, lost in all the words and
too busy thinking about the next question... The next day Max was
still talking about a software glitch. His problem is that he won't
take responsibility for his errors (it's never his fault...) and
until he does he can't eliminate them.
Cyril Abiteboul has also weighed in on this after checking recorded traces:

"The engine has done exactly what the throttle was asking, it was very
clear. It's a determinist thing, cause and consequence, when you press on
the throttle, something is happening to the engine.The engine has reacted in
exactly the same way that it was supposed to react."

From
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-allows-teams-unlock-more-engine-performance-1025524/
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Post by ~misfit~
He reminds me of some of the lyrics in a certain Carly Simon song. (He
prob'ly thinks this post is about him.)
~misfit~
2018-04-13 05:26:37 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by D Munz
I'm not quite sure what to make of Lewis' outreach to Max this week.
On one had, going over for a quick handshake and all that seems like
a good thing to do.
On the other hand, throwing out comments to the effect of '...as the
older, wiser driver...' and '...since my team is competing at the
front, I have to be more careful...' just screams "mind games."
Max has been saying to the media that he thinks Lewis has been
blaming hinm because he's the younger driver and not a front runner.
Never mind that he chopped Lewis off and left him nowhere to go.
Post by D Munz
And then DR jumped right in with his "I would have gone for the pass" comment.
DR? Oh Dan Ric? Yeah he would have but I bet he would have left more
room for Lewis than Max did. He knows to not risk getting a puncture
if he can help it.
Even though it seems I got the question wrong perhaps I got the answer
right.

Dan Ric: "I think Max had the move [completed] already, I just don't think
he needed to run all the way to the kerb. I think regardless Max would have
stayed ahead, he was just a little too greedy."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricciardo-verstappen-too-greedy-hamilton-bahrain-1025207/
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Bobster
2018-04-13 05:42:38 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Even though it seems I got the question wrong perhaps I got the answer
right.
Dan Ric: "I think Max had the move [completed] already, I just don't think
he needed to run all the way to the kerb. I think regardless Max would have
stayed ahead, he was just a little too greedy."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricciardo-verstappen-too-greedy-hamilton-bahrain-1025207/
That's the same web site you regarded as not talking to experts.

Anyway, is there not a far greater likelihood of mind games from a teammate? Ricciardo's contract is running down, if he can put Max off then not only does he beat his highly regarded teammate, but his negotiating position - with Red Bull or with any other team - gets stronger.
Bobster
2018-04-15 09:49:58 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by ~misfit~
Even though it seems I got the question wrong perhaps I got the answer
right.
Dan Ric: "I think Max had the move [completed] already, I just don't think
he needed to run all the way to the kerb. I think regardless Max would have
stayed ahead, he was just a little too greedy."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricciardo-verstappen-too-greedy-hamilton-bahrain-1025207/
That's the same web site you regarded as not talking to experts.
Anyway, is there not a far greater likelihood of mind games from a teammate? Ricciardo's contract is running down, if he can put Max off then not only does he beat his highly regarded teammate, but his negotiating position - with Red Bull or with any other team - gets stronger.
And didn't he do his share price a power of good today?

Bobster
2018-04-13 03:24:28 UTC
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Post by D Munz
I'm not quite sure what to make of Lewis' outreach to Max this week. On one had, going over for a quick handshake and all that seems like a good thing to do.
On the other hand, throwing out comments to the effect of '...as the older, wiser driver...' and '...since my team is competing at the front, I have to be more careful...' just screams "mind games."
You think? It doesn't smack to me of Schumacher and Senna. I think Hamilton was probably sincere and a bit too earnest when talking to the press. To me it really looks like, as Vettel said, Hamilton spoke when still pumped up and full of emotion and when he'd cooled down wanted to smooth things over.

The one sense in which might be more than that is that he doesn't want to let the issue linger all season and have to deal with endless questions about it - which would give the press more room to quote to Mr Verstappen what Mr Hamilton just said and require still more explaining.

He did also observe that when he was Verstappen's age
a) he was making the same sort of mistakes
b) he hadn't even got into F1 yet.
He's not just beating up on the youngster.
build
2018-04-13 09:15:42 UTC
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Post by D Munz
I'm not quite sure what to make of Lewis' outreach to Max this week. On one had, going over for a quick handshake and all that seems like a good thing to do.
On the other hand, throwing out comments to the effect of '...as the older, wiser driver...' and '...since my team is competing at the front, I have to be more careful...' just screams "mind games."
And then DR jumped right in with his "I would have gone for the pass" comment.
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
We will see.
FWIW
DLM
OK, OK, sorry about the baited subject change, I blame the devil.
"Immovable object meets unstoppable force" was the other version.

In the post race interviews Hamilton played his cards well by at first pretending he couldn't remember the incident then saying "Oh, yeah, that" and blaming Max saying it was unnecessary, etc but then summed-up by saying it was a racing incident, leaving an opportunity to backtrack, very clever PR.

Max on the other hand was belligerent blaming Lewis and claiming there was a cars width, which there wasn't. Awkward PR.

In my opinion; Max was never going to back off, he had the position and a lot less to lose than Lewis. Lewis on the other hand had a lot more to lose and should have known Max would not back off so he should have conceded a few inches of track, Max had the position anyway, let Max go after all at Bahrain Lewis could and would have overtaken Max later.

As for the subsequent comments, just attempted mind games, usual stuff although I must say Lewis is getting damned good at it.

beers,
build
2018-04-13 09:23:56 UTC
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Post by build
Post by D Munz
I'm not quite sure what to make of Lewis' outreach to Max this week. On one had, going over for a quick handshake and all that seems like a good thing to do.
On the other hand, throwing out comments to the effect of '...as the older, wiser driver...' and '...since my team is competing at the front, I have to be more careful...' just screams "mind games."
And then DR jumped right in with his "I would have gone for the pass" comment.
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
We will see.
FWIW
DLM
OK, OK, sorry about the baited subject change, I blame the devil.
"Immovable object meets unstoppable force" was the other version.
In the post race interviews Hamilton played his cards well by at first pretending he couldn't remember the incident then saying "Oh, yeah, that" and blaming Max saying it was unnecessary, etc but then summed-up by saying it was a racing incident, leaving an opportunity to backtrack, very clever PR.
Max on the other hand was belligerent blaming Lewis and claiming there was a cars width, which there wasn't. Awkward PR.
In my opinion; Max was never going to back off, he had the position and a lot less to lose than Lewis. Lewis on the other hand had a lot more to lose and should have known Max would not back off so he should have conceded a few inches of track, Max had the position anyway, let Max go after all at Bahrain Lewis could and would have overtaken Max later.
As for the subsequent comments, just attempted mind games, usual stuff although I must say Lewis is getting damned good at it.
beers,
BTW, Up until about the late 90's Lewis would have been at fault and called to see Charlie. Then the rule got very cloudy until several years back when they clarified the rule in the regs.

That still applies in club racing the "C" pillar rule would apply which in open wheel terms means the front wheel needs to be forward of the rear wheel of the car ahead, otherwise the car behind must give the corner to the leading car.
Bigbird
2018-04-13 09:26:46 UTC
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Post by build
OK, OK, sorry about the baited subject change, I blame the devil.
Grow a pair and take responsibilty for your own deliberately offensive
intentions.
build
2018-04-13 09:42:06 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by build
OK, OK, sorry about the baited subject change, I blame the devil.
Grow a pair and take responsibilty for your own deliberately offensive
intentions.
Says a abusive whingeing pom with no balls at all. And drop by the humour shop and get some.
Bigbird
2018-04-13 15:23:49 UTC
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Post by build
Post by Bigbird
Post by build
OK, OK, sorry about the baited subject change, I blame the devil.
Grow a pair and take responsibilty for your own deliberately
offensive intentions.
Says a abusive whingeing pom with no balls at all. And drop by the
humour shop and get some.
So that is humourous where you come from? where's that the 1970's.

:-)
~misfit~
2018-04-14 00:10:29 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by build
Post by Bigbird
Post by build
OK, OK, sorry about the baited subject change, I blame the devil.
Grow a pair and take responsibilty for your own deliberately
offensive intentions.
Says a abusive whingeing pom with no balls at all. And drop by the
humour shop and get some.
So that is humourous where you come from? where's that the 1970's.
:-)
As Jeremy Clarkson once said "If you say 'drunk Aussie' you're using one
word too many". (Or words to that effect.)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2018-04-14 04:02:59 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
As Jeremy Clarkson once said "If you say 'drunk Aussie' you're using one
word too many". (Or words to that effect.)
You fucking, cock sucking,
piece of shit loser, asshole.
Fuck you. Cunt face.
Whiner. Cry baby.
(Or words to that effect.)
t***@gmail.com
2018-04-14 04:33:33 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
So that is humourous where you come from? where's that the 1970's.
Fuck you. Rotten toothed.
British, diseased, cornholing, faggot.
geoff
2018-04-13 11:45:34 UTC
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Post by build
Post by D Munz
I'm not quite sure what to make of Lewis' outreach to Max this week. On one had, going over for a quick handshake and all that seems like a good thing to do.
On the other hand, throwing out comments to the effect of '...as the older, wiser driver...' and '...since my team is competing at the front, I have to be more careful...' just screams "mind games."
And then DR jumped right in with his "I would have gone for the pass" comment.
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
We will see.
FWIW
DLM
OK, OK, sorry about the baited subject change, I blame the devil.
"Immovable object meets unstoppable force" was the other version.
In the post race interviews Hamilton played his cards well by at first pretending he couldn't remember the incident then saying "Oh, yeah, that" and blaming Max saying it was unnecessary, etc but then summed-up by saying it was a racing incident, leaving an opportunity to backtrack, very clever PR.
Max on the other hand was belligerent blaming Lewis and claiming there was a cars width, which there wasn't. Awkward PR.
In my opinion; Max was never going to back off, he had the position and a lot less to lose than Lewis. Lewis on the other hand had a lot more to lose and should have known Max would not back off so he should have conceded a few inches of track, Max had the position anyway, let Max go after all at Bahrain Lewis could and would have overtaken Max later.
As for the subsequent comments, just attempted mind games, usual stuff although I must say Lewis is getting damned good at it.
beers,
But how long do you go on rewarding people for being dicks ?

geoff
News
2018-04-13 13:26:16 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by build
Post by D Munz
I'm not quite sure what to make of Lewis' outreach to Max this week.
On one had, going over for a quick handshake and all that seems like
a good thing to do.
On the other hand, throwing out comments to the effect of '...as the
older, wiser driver...' and '...since my team is competing at the
front, I have to be more careful...' just screams "mind games."
And then DR jumped right in with his "I would have gone for the pass" comment.
Looks like psych-war game on between Merc and Red Bull.
We will see.
FWIW
DLM
OK, OK, sorry about the baited subject change, I blame the devil.
"Immovable object meets unstoppable force" was the other version.
In the post race interviews Hamilton played his cards well by at first
pretending he couldn't remember the incident then saying "Oh, yeah,
that" and blaming Max saying it was unnecessary, etc but then
summed-up by saying it was a racing incident, leaving an opportunity
to backtrack, very clever PR.
Max on the other hand was belligerent blaming Lewis and claiming there
was a cars width, which there wasn't. Awkward PR.
In my opinion; Max was never going to back off, he had the position
and a lot less to lose than Lewis. Lewis on the other hand had a lot
more to lose and should have known Max would not back off so he should
have conceded a few inches of track, Max had the position anyway, let
Max go after all at Bahrain Lewis could and would have overtaken Max
later.
As for the subsequent comments, just attempted mind games, usual stuff
although I must say Lewis is getting damned good at it.
beers,
But how long do you go on rewarding people for being dicks ?
geoff
Ask Toto.
t***@gmail.com
2018-04-14 04:35:33 UTC
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Post by geoff
But how long do you go on rewarding people for being dicks ?
What's with you and dicks?
Fag fuck.
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