Discussion:
Kubica
(too old to reply)
Sir Tim
2017-09-16 09:23:31 UTC
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It has been suggested that RK might be in the running for a seat at
Williams next year. Does anyone here think that he stands any realistic
chance of getting it, or, indeed, any other seat in F1?
I don’t think there is any doubt about Robert’s enormous natural ability
– after all, he was one of that brilliant Hamilton/Kubica/Rosberg
triumvirate of young drivers:

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At age 33 and carrying a physical handicap I don’t imagine Kubica would
have stood much chance were it not for the fact that the Martini
sponsorship apparently demands that one driver should be at least 25
years old.

Assuming that Massa really does retire this time the names being bandied
about seem to be: Palmer, di Resta and, yes, Kubica.
--
Sir Tim

“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
bra
2017-09-16 15:28:13 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
It has been suggested that RK might be in the running for a seat at
Williams next year. Does anyone here think that he stands any realistic
chance of getting it, or, indeed, any other seat in F1?
I don't see why a team should not let Kubica test. It would be both a generous deed and good PR. What are Williams's chances next year --- perhaps they "may as well" give Kubica a race or two.

Don't forget that Gary Bettenhausen raced seven of his 21 Indianapolis races, after his left arm was crushed and paralysed in a dirt-car crash in 1974 -- (Penske fired him on the spot). Bettenhausen was the fastest qualifier for the 1991 Indianapolis 500.
Sir Tim
2017-09-16 18:39:09 UTC
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Post by bra
Post by Sir Tim
It has been suggested that RK might be in the running for a seat at
Williams next year. Does anyone here think that he stands any realistic
chance of getting it, or, indeed, any other seat in F1?
I don't see why a team should not let Kubica test. It would be both a
generous deed and good PR. What are Williams's chances next year ---
perhaps they "may as well" give Kubica a race or two.
Of course Kubica has already tested for Renault and completed 142 laps of
the Hungaroring successfully.
Post by bra
Don't forget that Gary Bettenhausen raced seven of his 21 Indianapolis
races, after his left arm was crushed and paralysed in a dirt-car crash
in 1974 -- (Penske fired him on the spot). Bettenhausen was the fastest
qualifier for the 1991 Indianapolis 500.
Alan Stacey (false leg) and Archie Scott Brown (withered arm) also come to
mind (although neither of them would be allowed to race today of course).
--
Sir Tim
Mark Jackson
2017-09-16 19:41:14 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by bra
Don't forget that Gary Bettenhausen raced seven of his 21 Indianapolis
races, after his left arm was crushed and paralysed in a dirt-car crash
in 1974 -- (Penske fired him on the spot). Bettenhausen was the fastest
qualifier for the 1991 Indianapolis 500.
Alan Stacey (false leg) and Archie Scott Brown (withered arm) also come to
mind (although neither of them would be allowed to race today of course).
I believe I remember stories about Stacey passing prerace medical exams
by having a complicit fellow driver distract the examiner between
testing the reflexes of Alan's meat leg and testing the reflexes of his
meat leg again.

And ASB was denied an international license.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
It is never a good idea to elect people who promise as many
as six impossible things before breakfast. - Simon Johnson
Sir Tim
2017-09-16 20:50:11 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
Post by bra
Don't forget that Gary Bettenhausen raced seven of his 21 Indianapolis
races, after his left arm was crushed and paralysed in a dirt-car crash
in 1974 -- (Penske fired him on the spot). Bettenhausen was the fastest
qualifier for the 1991 Indianapolis 500.
Alan Stacey (false leg) and Archie Scott Brown (withered arm) also come to
mind (although neither of them would be allowed to race today of course).
I believe I remember stories about Stacey passing prerace medical exams
by having a complicit fellow driver distract the examiner between
testing the reflexes of Alan's meat leg and testing the reflexes of his
meat leg again.
Gerard Crombac confirms that story:

"At Rouen one year, Alan had to pass a medical. Team Lotus was – like most
British teams at that time – very scared of the bureaucracy of French
organisers. So I was sent to go with him. Well, there is that test where
the doctor touches your knee with a rubber hammer, to check the reflex. So
Alan showed his proper leg for the first test, then I distracted the
doctor’s attention and Alan quickly made sure that he tested the same leg
again!"
Post by Mark Jackson
And ASB was denied an international license.
Yet he drove a Connaught in the 1956 British GP and was killed in a sports
car race at Spa. How was that I wonder? Possibly his lack of a licence was
overlooked by the British authorities and one was not required for sports
car racing?

On a personal note, I knew Raymond Lister quite well. He was an artist and
art historian (a leading authority on Samuel Palmer) but was also much
involved in the family engineering business (his brother Brian ran the
racing side). Ray told me that as well as his wonky arm ASB also has
deformed legs and was only five feet tall. Both he and Brian were
devastated by Archie's death and withdrew from racing the following year
--
Sir Tim
~misfit~
2017-09-17 00:26:29 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
Post by bra
Don't forget that Gary Bettenhausen raced seven of his 21
Indianapolis races, after his left arm was crushed and paralysed
in a dirt-car crash in 1974 -- (Penske fired him on the spot).
Bettenhausen was the fastest qualifier for the 1991 Indianapolis
500.
Alan Stacey (false leg) and Archie Scott Brown (withered arm) also
come to mind (although neither of them would be allowed to race
today of course).
I believe I remember stories about Stacey passing prerace medical
exams by having a complicit fellow driver distract the examiner
between testing the reflexes of Alan's meat leg and testing the
reflexes of his meat leg again.
"At Rouen one year, Alan had to pass a medical. Team Lotus was - like
most British teams at that time - very scared of the bureaucracy of
French organisers. So I was sent to go with him. Well, there is that
test where the doctor touches your knee with a rubber hammer, to
check the reflex. So Alan showed his proper leg for the first test,
then I distracted the doctor's attention and Alan quickly made sure
that he tested the same leg again!"
Post by Mark Jackson
And ASB was denied an international license.
Yet he drove a Connaught in the 1956 British GP and was killed in a
sports car race at Spa. How was that I wonder? Possibly his lack of a
licence was overlooked by the British authorities and one was not
required for sports car racing?
On a personal note, I knew Raymond Lister quite well. He was an
artist and art historian (a leading authority on Samuel Palmer) but
was also much involved in the family engineering business (his
brother Brian ran the racing side). Ray told me that as well as his
wonky arm ASB also has deformed legs and was only five feet tall.
Both he and Brian were devastated by Archie's death and withdrew from
racing the following year
All of this historical stuff is interesting but today's F1 is a far cry for
that of yesteryear.

From what I've heard of Kubicas progress currently he could drive and
threaten the points. Wether he can maintain that or not or even get better
is speculation. I doubt any team would take him on as a full time driver
without a *very* good reserve driver waiting in the wings.

That said I'd love to see him given a chance.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2017-09-17 02:05:15 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
All of this historical stuff is interesting but today's F1 is a far cry for
that of yesteryear.
Ya fucking boring. Like you
Mark Jackson
2017-09-17 01:19:19 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
Alan Stacey (false leg) and Archie Scott Brown (withered arm)
also come to mind (although neither of them would be allowed to
race today of course).
[snip]
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Mark Jackson
And ASB was denied an international license.
Yet he drove a Connaught in the 1956 British GP and was killed in a
sports car race at Spa. How was that I wonder? Possibly his lack of a
licence was overlooked by the British authorities and one was not
required for sports car racing?
I was depending on memory and a quick glance at Wikipedia. It appears
his problems were with organizers and stewards not letting him race.
(He was excluded from the 1954 Empire Trophy race after qualifying, when
the stewards were told of his deformities.) See

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/march-1986/42/archie-scott-brown
Post by Sir Tim
On a personal note, I knew Raymond Lister quite well. He was an
artist and art historian (a leading authority on Samuel Palmer) but
was also much involved in the family engineering business (his
brother Brian ran the racing side). Ray told me that as well as his
wonky arm ASB also has deformed legs and was only five feet tall.
Both he and Brian were devastated by Archie's death and withdrew from
racing the following year
After the further death of Lister team driver Ivor Bueb (in an F2 Cooper).
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
It is never a good idea to elect people who promise as many
as six impossible things before breakfast. - Simon Johnson
Sir Tim
2017-09-17 11:38:53 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
Alan Stacey (false leg) and Archie Scott Brown (withered arm)
also come to mind (although neither of them would be allowed to
race today of course).
[snip]
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Mark Jackson
And ASB was denied an international license.
Yet he drove a Connaught in the 1956 British GP and was killed in a
sports car race at Spa. How was that I wonder? Possibly his lack of a
licence was overlooked by the British authorities and one was not
required for sports car racing?
I was depending on memory and a quick glance at Wikipedia.  It appears
his problems were with organizers and stewards not letting him race.
(He was excluded from the 1954 Empire Trophy race after qualifying, when
the stewards were told of his deformities.)  See
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/march-1986/42/archie-scott-brown
A most interesting article (at least to old buffers like me), thanks so
much for the link.
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
On a personal note, I knew Raymond Lister quite well. He was an
artist and art historian (a leading authority on Samuel Palmer) but
was also much involved in the family engineering business (his
brother Brian ran the racing side). Ray told me that as well as his
wonky arm ASB also has deformed legs and was only five feet tall.
Both he and Brian were devastated by Archie's death and withdrew from
racing the following year
After the further death of Lister team driver Ivor Bueb (in an F2 Cooper).
Yes, but I think it was really Archie's death that triggered Lister's
withdrawal. As Ray said to me, "we were not prepared to send young men
out to die in our cars".
--
Sir Tim

“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
bra
2017-09-16 21:22:52 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Alan Stacey (false leg) and Archie Scott Brown (withered arm) also come to
mind (although neither of them would be allowed to race today of course).
--
Sir Tim
Like Archie Scott Brown, Lenin too had a withered arm, and whether he should have been allowed to continue his career -------- ;-)
t***@gmail.com
2017-09-16 23:37:19 UTC
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Post by bra
-------- ;-)
Why end the sentence with some queer ass punctuation?
bra
2017-09-16 23:48:12 UTC
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Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by bra
-------- ;-)
Why end the sentence with some queer ass punctuation?
Why does the blackbird fly west when the marmot dies? Deep questions you pose, deep questions.
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