Post by ~misfit~ Post by larkim Post by Alan Baker Post by keefy Post by Alan Baker Post by News Post by Alan Baker Post by Bigbird Post by Alan Baker Post by larkim Post by Alan Baker Post by Phil Carmody Post by Mower Man Post by alister
Well he certainly made my day :-)
Mine too. Even if he didn't actually "drive" much...
He drove Verstappen into Kimi, that's more than enough.
He moved to defend his position, as drivers have done on
countless race starts.
Vettel was entitled to move to the left.
Verstappen was entitled to move to the left in response.
And Raikkonen failed to keep clear as he was overtaking.
When RAI and VER touched, there was still 3 feet (or so)
between RAI's Ferrari and the wall. He should have moved
over, but he didn't.
That having been said, he had very little time to react,
because while Vettel's move on VER was gradual (2 seconds to
move from his initial position to his position just before
the incident), VER's move left was far less so, and that was
to be expected.
RAI kept a 100% straight line, and was in front of VER when
VER either failed to stop a change of direction, or added a
small amout of change of direction into the path of RAI.
Keeping a 100% straight line isn't the standard.
And he wasn't in front of Verstappen, since his right rear
ended up climbing over Verstappen's left front.
Post by larkim
It was VER front and RAI rear tyres which collided, and RAI
had the track at that point.
Nope. When you are overtaking, you have the obligation to
complete the overtake cleanly. It isn't clean if the two cars
What a fuckwit.
It is hilarious to have him claim one week that having a six
inch overlap entitles a driver to racing room but denying the
same to a driver who is well ahead.
He has nothing sensible to say.
"The overtaking driver is responsible for the decision to pass
another car and to accomplish it safely.T he overtaken driver is
responsible to be aware that he is being passed and not to
impede or block the overtaking car. A driver who does not use
his rear view mirror or who appears to be blocking another car
attempting to pass may be black flagged and/or penalized, as
specified in Section 7."
The difference between Perez's behaviour with Ocon in Belgium and
Verstappen's in Singapore is that Verstappen left Raikkonen room
to pass him, whereas Perez "blocked" Ocon when he moved over so
far that Ocon had no space between Perez's Force India and the
If the painted, wet, low-grip area outside track limits is
considered to be room, "Verstappen left Raikkonen room to pass
There was no such area to the left of Raikkonen when they collided.
Six seconds in.
It appears your contention is that no-one did anything wrong. If
no-one did anything wrong why did 3 drivers have to retire from the
race? How many times do you know of when 3 drivers have had to
retire when no-one did anything wrong?
I didn't say that no-one did anything wrong. I said that I don't
think anyone did anything wrong enough to penalize.
The only one who did anything wrong in terms of the rules was
Raikkonen. An overtaking driver is obliged to complete the overtake
safely, and he failed to do that. But not in a big way. He just
reacted too late to Verstappen inevitably moving a little left
(legal) in response to Vettel moving a lot left (also legal).
Raikkonen had more than half a car width-something more than 39.375
inches-to move to the left and needed only to move left maybe 12
On this I 100% disagree - that RAI broke any rules.
When you are driving in a straight line, and a driver starts to veer
left towards you there is no rule that you must get out of their way.
I don't think any rules were broken in this scenario.
VET acted instinctively (but legally).
VER acted instinctively (but legally).
RAI acted instinctively (but legally).
It just so happens that the combination of those instincts IN THAT
SCENARIO meant that three cars were put on varying collision courses.
There are scenarios where it could all have worked out fine - less
squeeze from VET, backing out by VER, moving left by RAI. But these
drivers aren't paid to take the course of least risk all of the time,
so sometimes crashes happen through instinct. It happens.
Verstapped said that by the time he realised he'd have to back out he was
trapped (because the rears of the cars are wider and his view was of the
fronts of the Ferraris). He tried to back out nontheless but those closing
in wide Ferrari rears caught him.
Yup. He would have been better off NOT trying to back out, and hope that
all there was was light wheel-to-sidepod contact, rather than the
wheel-to-wheel contact with Raikkonen that resulted.
I had a similar incident (at least as far as backing out being a bad
idea) with a Formula Vee last year:
While trying to stay ahead of a hard-charging Formula Ford behind me, I
thought I saw an opportunity in a Formula Vee we were about to lap. The
driver was always very aware of blue flags, and our position on the
track was such that if I passed him going into turn 8, I thought he'd
hold my competitor for just a moment.
The only problem was (as it turned out), because I run a slightly
different line into turn 7, the Vee driver only saw my competitor, and
not me, so what I took as him giving way entering turn 8 was just him
taking his normal (wider) entry into the corner (momentum cars, Vees),
and when he started back to the apex, I tried to back out of it rather
than have nowhere to go between him and the apex of the corner.
Unfortunately, trying to back out of it put his rear tire into my front,
sending us both into an interlocking spin that (thankfully) resulted in
no damage to my car (one A-arm had the paint polished off it) and just a
broken nose piece on his car.
We had a good talk about it afterward where he acknowledged he should
have known I was there, and I accepted that I'd failed to complete a
pass safely (as the rules require the overtaking driver to do).
But I look back and wonder, if I had just matched speeds and ridden the
car almost completely inside the apex curb at turn 8, whether I could
have avoided the incident entirely.