Discussion:
Mald.... ooops Max's penalty
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geoff
2018-09-03 02:25:39 UTC
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Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
there been no incident.

geoff
~misfit~
2018-09-03 03:44:05 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
> there been no incident.
>
> geoff

There was *always* going to be an incident. Max even chose to keep Bottas
behind him at the cost of defending fourth place from Vettel. He's an angry
driver.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Sir Tim
2018-09-03 09:20:14 UTC
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~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
>> there been no incident.
>>
>> geoff
>
> There was *always* going to be an incident. Max even chose to keep Bottas
> behind him at the cost of defending fourth place from Vettel. He's an angry
> driver.

Max convinced himself that he had left Bottas room (wonder whether he still
thought so after seeing the video?) and was certainly angry about the
penalty but he showed his immaturity by allowing it to get to him. The
obvious thing to do was surely to let Bottas past, pick up some tow and
channel his anger into maintaining a 5 second gap between himself and
Vettel thus giving himself and his team a couple of extra points.
Easy to say when sitting in an armchair of course :-)

--
Sir Tim
geoff
2018-09-03 09:23:17 UTC
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On 3/09/2018 9:20 PM, Sir Tim wrote:
> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
>>> there been no incident.
>>>
>>> geoff
>>
>> There was *always* going to be an incident. Max even chose to keep Bottas
>> behind him at the cost of defending fourth place from Vettel. He's an angry
>> driver.
>
> Max convinced himself that he had left Bottas room (wonder whether he still
> thought so after seeing the video?) and was certainly angry about the
> penalty but he showed his immaturity by allowing it to get to him. The
> obvious thing to do was surely to let Bottas past, pick up some tow and
> channel his anger into maintaining a 5 second gap between himself and
> Vettel thus giving himself and his team a couple of extra points.
> Easy to say when sitting in an armchair of course :-)
>

Or let BOT past, then overtake him. Admittedly not a likely outcome.

geoff
larkim
2018-09-03 11:25:09 UTC
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On Monday, 3 September 2018 10:20:17 UTC+1, Sir Tim wrote:
> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
> >> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
> >> there been no incident.
> >>
> >> geoff
> >
> > There was *always* going to be an incident. Max even chose to keep Bottas
> > behind him at the cost of defending fourth place from Vettel. He's an angry
> > driver.
>
> Max convinced himself that he had left Bottas room (wonder whether he still
> thought so after seeing the video?) and was certainly angry about the
> penalty but he showed his immaturity by allowing it to get to him. The
> obvious thing to do was surely to let Bottas past, pick up some tow and
> channel his anger into maintaining a 5 second gap between himself and
> Vettel thus giving himself and his team a couple of extra points.
> Easy to say when sitting in an armchair of course :-)
>
> --
> Sir Tim

I do love how self-righteous drivers can be. I'm sure Max intended to leave
a car's width for Bottas when he positioned his car - the problem at
220mph he mis-measured mentally by probably about a foot or so and so ended
up with the penalty.

But in his mind it's simply the fact that he *intended* to leave enough room
which ought to get him off without a penalty.
Edmund
2018-09-03 15:33:04 UTC
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On Mon, 03 Sep 2018 04:25:09 -0700, larkim wrote:

> On Monday, 3 September 2018 10:20:17 UTC+1, Sir Tim wrote:
>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>> >> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER
>> >> had there been no incident.
>> >>
>> >> geoff
>> >
>> > There was *always* going to be an incident. Max even chose to keep
>> > Bottas behind him at the cost of defending fourth place from Vettel.
>> > He's an angry driver.
>>
>> Max convinced himself that he had left Bottas room (wonder whether he
>> still thought so after seeing the video?) and was certainly angry about
>> the penalty but he showed his immaturity by allowing it to get to him.
>> The obvious thing to do was surely to let Bottas past, pick up some tow
>> and channel his anger into maintaining a 5 second gap between himself
>> and Vettel thus giving himself and his team a couple of extra points.
>> Easy to say when sitting in an armchair of course :-)
>>
>> --
>> Sir Tim
>
> I do love how self-righteous drivers can be. I'm sure Max intended to
> leave a car's width for Bottas when he positioned his car - the problem
> at 220mph he mis-measured mentally by probably about a foot or so and so
> ended up with the penalty.
>
> But in his mind it's simply the fact that he *intended* to leave enough
> room

Are you a mind reader?


Edmund
Alan Baker
2018-09-03 15:42:42 UTC
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On 2018-09-03 8:33 AM, Edmund wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2018 04:25:09 -0700, larkim wrote:
>
>> On Monday, 3 September 2018 10:20:17 UTC+1, Sir Tim wrote:
>>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>>>>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER
>>>>> had there been no incident.
>>>>>
>>>>> geoff
>>>>
>>>> There was *always* going to be an incident. Max even chose to keep
>>>> Bottas behind him at the cost of defending fourth place from Vettel.
>>>> He's an angry driver.
>>>
>>> Max convinced himself that he had left Bottas room (wonder whether he
>>> still thought so after seeing the video?) and was certainly angry about
>>> the penalty but he showed his immaturity by allowing it to get to him.
>>> The obvious thing to do was surely to let Bottas past, pick up some tow
>>> and channel his anger into maintaining a 5 second gap between himself
>>> and Vettel thus giving himself and his team a couple of extra points.
>>> Easy to say when sitting in an armchair of course :-)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sir Tim
>>
>> I do love how self-righteous drivers can be. I'm sure Max intended to
>> leave a car's width for Bottas when he positioned his car - the problem
>> at 220mph he mis-measured mentally by probably about a foot or so and so
>> ended up with the penalty.
>>
>> But in his mind it's simply the fact that he *intended* to leave enough
>> room
>
> Are you a mind reader?
>
>
> Edmund
>

I don't know about mind reading, but Verstappen is quoted as saying he
left room and that Bottas moved into him, which is nonsense.

'When informed of the decision over team radio, the Dutchman angrily
suggested the stewards were “killing racing”.

“I gave him a car width of space on the left of me. Then he clipped my
wheel and he had to go straight. I don’t agree with it," Verstappen told
Sky Sports F1 after the race. '

<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/9/penalty--not-fair--says-verstappen-after-losing-podium.html>

'Verstappen was given a five-second time penalty, which he reacted to
furiously on the radio, and he dropped from third to fifth behind Bottas
and Sebastian Vettel in the final order.

"I gave him [Bottas] plenty of space and if he then drives against my
wheel, I can't do anything about that. But in the end I got a penalty
for it," said Verstappen to Ziggo Sport.

"When he first tried to overtake me I went a bit wide, maybe that's why
they gave it [the penalty] to me. But even then I think it's not fair
because they gave it straight away.

"You are allowed to go back to the left under braking, as long as you
leave enough room for one car. And that's what I did.'

<https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-blames-bottas-for-unfair-penalty/3170156/?nrt=54>

No, Max: you didn't.
larkim
2018-09-04 05:26:12 UTC
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Well, on the radio he said he had given him room (we know he hadn’t).

So either my supposition is correct (that he intended to, but failed due to an error of judgement) or he deliberately hit Bottas (which I don’t find credible).

It’s not mind reading ;-)
Edmund
2018-09-04 14:49:34 UTC
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On Mon, 03 Sep 2018 22:26:12 -0700, larkim wrote:

> Well, on the radio he said he had given him room (we know he hadn’t).
>
> So either my supposition is correct (that he intended to, but failed due
> to an error of judgement) or he deliberately hit Bottas (which I don’t
> find credible).
>
> It’s not mind reading ;-)

No it is your opinion, drivers who prefer to take their own teammates out
regardless if going out themselves in order to prevent being overtaken,
that kind of drivers most likely give just enough space to get away -by
the stewards - with it. No doubt they very much prefer not really giving
enough space to anyone.
Mad Max -like one other driver-, fits the description.

Edmund
Heron
2018-09-03 13:31:59 UTC
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On 9/3/2018 4:20 AM, Sir Tim wrote:
> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
>>> there been no incident.
>>>
>>> geoff
>>
>> There was *always* going to be an incident. Max even chose to keep Bottas
>> behind him at the cost of defending fourth place from Vettel. He's an angry
>> driver.
>
> Max convinced himself that he had left Bottas room (wonder whether he still
> thought so after seeing the video?) and was certainly angry about the
> penalty but he showed his immaturity by allowing it to get to him.

Not to mention never fessing up even after an
opportunity to view the footage. But he always
employs the same tactics, whether while driving
or not admitting responsibility after causing
contact. His insufferable act has already gotten
old.

> The
> obvious thing to do was surely to let Bottas past, pick up some tow and
> channel his anger into maintaining a 5 second gap between himself and
> Vettel thus giving himself and his team a couple of extra points.
> Easy to say when sitting in an armchair of course :-)
geoff
2018-09-03 23:47:56 UTC
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On 4/09/2018 1:31 AM, Heron wrote:
> On 9/3/2018 4:20 AM, Sir Tim wrote:
>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>>>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
>>>> there been no incident.
>>>>
>>>> geoff
>>>
>>> There was *always* going to be an incident. Max even chose to keep
>>> Bottas
>>> behind him at the cost of defending fourth place from Vettel. He's an
>>> angry
>>> driver.
>>
>> Max convinced himself that he had left Bottas room (wonder whether he
>> still
>> thought so after seeing the video?) and was certainly angry about the
>> penalty but he showed his immaturity by allowing it to get to him.
>
> Not to mention never fessing up even after an
> opportunity to view the footage. But he always
> employs the same tactics, whether while driving
> or not admitting responsibility after causing
> contact. His insufferable act has already gotten
> old.
>
>> The
>> obvious thing to do was surely to let Bottas past, pick up some tow and
>> channel his anger into maintaining a 5 second gap between himself and
>> Vettel thus giving himself and his team a couple of extra points.
>> Easy to say when sitting in an armchair of course :-)


Yes , instead of "OK I thought I'd given enough room, but it seems I
didn't after all", he changes the discussion to "The stewards are
killing racing".

A bit like the tactics of another particular highly opinionated man with
a bizarre hairstyle and small hands.

geoff
~misfit~
2018-09-03 04:33:28 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
> there been no incident.

Interesting that Dan's DNF was due to a clutch failure. I saw the smoke
coming out of the car and when he stopped thought "that doesn't look like
oil smoke". Before he stopped I thought it may have been vapour / steam but
it was obvious it wasn't when he stopped.

So it was clutch material. I must note that for future reference. It seems
that Red Bulls clutch may not be strong enough for the c-spec 2018 Renault
that is said to be three tenths faster than the b-spec. ;)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
build
2018-09-03 13:02:02 UTC
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On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:33:32 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
> > Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
> > there been no incident.
>
> Interesting that Dan's DNF was due to a clutch failure. I saw the smoke
> coming out of the car and when he stopped thought "that doesn't look like
> oil smoke". Before he stopped I thought it may have been vapour / steam but
> it was obvious it wasn't when he stopped.
>
> So it was clutch material.

What are F1 clutches made of ?


> I must note that for future reference. It seems
> that Red Bulls clutch may not be strong enough for the c-spec 2018 Renault
> that is said to be three tenths faster than the b-spec. ;)
> --
> Shaun.
DumbedDownUSA
2018-09-03 13:24:27 UTC
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build wrote:

> On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:33:32 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
> > Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
> > > Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER
> > > had there been no incident.
> >
> > Interesting that Dan's DNF was due to a clutch failure. I saw the
> > smoke coming out of the car and when he stopped thought "that
> > doesn't look like oil smoke". Before he stopped I thought it may
> > have been vapour / steam but it was obvious it wasn't when he
> > stopped.
> >
> > So it was clutch material.
>
> What are F1 clutches made of ?
>

From the smoke... pizza dough?

--
Trump averages eight falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
Geoff May
2018-09-03 20:49:48 UTC
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On 03/09/2018 14:02, build wrote:
> On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:33:32 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER had
>>> there been no incident.
>>
>> Interesting that Dan's DNF was due to a clutch failure. I saw the smoke
>> coming out of the car and when he stopped thought "that doesn't look like
>> oil smoke". Before he stopped I thought it may have been vapour / steam but
>> it was obvious it wasn't when he stopped.
>>
>> So it was clutch material.
>
> What are F1 clutches made of ?

Carbon plates.

Cheers

Geoff.
~misfit~
2018-09-04 01:28:06 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet build wrote:
> On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:33:32 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER
>>> had there been no incident.
>>
>> Interesting that Dan's DNF was due to a clutch failure. I saw the
>> smoke coming out of the car and when he stopped thought "that
>> doesn't look like oil smoke". Before he stopped I thought it may
>> have been vapour / steam but it was obvious it wasn't when he
>> stopped.
>>
>> So it was clutch material.
>
> What are F1 clutches made of ?

Smoke - obviously.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
build
2018-09-04 03:52:52 UTC
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On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 11:28:09 AM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet build wrote:
> > On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:33:32 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
> >> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
> >>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER
> >>> had there been no incident.
> >>
> >> Interesting that Dan's DNF was due to a clutch failure. I saw the
> >> smoke coming out of the car and when he stopped thought "that
> >> doesn't look like oil smoke". Before he stopped I thought it may
> >> have been vapour / steam but it was obvious it wasn't when he
> >> stopped.
> >>
> >> So it was clutch material.
> >
> > What are F1 clutches made of ?
>
> Smoke - obviously.
> --
> Shaun.

Light coloured smoke (dust)?
~misfit~
2018-09-04 08:39:27 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet build wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 11:28:09 AM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Once upon a time on usenet build wrote:
>>> On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:33:32 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>>>>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER
>>>>> had there been no incident.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting that Dan's DNF was due to a clutch failure. I saw the
>>>> smoke coming out of the car and when he stopped thought "that
>>>> doesn't look like oil smoke". Before he stopped I thought it may
>>>> have been vapour / steam but it was obvious it wasn't when he
>>>> stopped.
>>>>
>>>> So it was clutch material.
>>>
>>> What are F1 clutches made of ?
>>
>> Smoke - obviously.
>> --
>> Shaun.
>
> Light coloured smoke (dust)?

Yeah something like that. Dan said "I got smoke, I got smoke" and he was in
a prime position to see what was going on.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
build
2018-09-04 09:15:38 UTC
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On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 6:39:33 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet build wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 11:28:09 AM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
> >> Once upon a time on usenet build wrote:
> >>> On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:33:32 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
> >>>> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
> >>>>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER
> >>>>> had there been no incident.
> >>>>
> >>>> Interesting that Dan's DNF was due to a clutch failure. I saw the
> >>>> smoke coming out of the car and when he stopped thought "that
> >>>> doesn't look like oil smoke". Before he stopped I thought it may
> >>>> have been vapour / steam but it was obvious it wasn't when he
> >>>> stopped.
> >>>>
> >>>> So it was clutch material.
> >>>
> >>> What are F1 clutches made of ?
> >>
> >> Smoke - obviously.
> >> --
> >> Shaun.
> >
> > Light coloured smoke (dust)?
>
> Yeah something like that. Dan said "I got smoke, I got smoke" and he was in
> a prime position to see what was going on.
> --
> Shaun.
>

Carbon fibre dust is very black.
keefy
2018-09-04 20:07:27 UTC
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On 04/09/2018 11:15, build wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 6:39:33 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Once upon a time on usenet build wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 11:28:09 AM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>> Once upon a time on usenet build wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:33:32 PM UTC+10, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>>>> Once upon a time on usenet geoff wrote:
>>>>>>> Would have been interesting to see if BOT could have got past VER
>>>>>>> had there been no incident.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting that Dan's DNF was due to a clutch failure. I saw the
>>>>>> smoke coming out of the car and when he stopped thought "that
>>>>>> doesn't look like oil smoke". Before he stopped I thought it may
>>>>>> have been vapour / steam but it was obvious it wasn't when he
>>>>>> stopped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it was clutch material.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are F1 clutches made of ?
>>>>
>>>> Smoke - obviously.
>>>> --
>>>> Shaun.
>>>
>>> Light coloured smoke (dust)?
>>
>> Yeah something like that. Dan said "I got smoke, I got smoke" and he was in
>> a prime position to see what was going on.
>> --
>> Shaun.
>>
>
> Carbon fibre dust is very black.
>
And is the smoke from carbon fibre, perhaps burning, also black or is it
white or another colour? But Renault did not say it was the clutch
itself, rather it was a clutch issue. So it could be thrust bearing,
lubricant, hydraulic oil etc. I am not a chemist so I do not know what
creates white smoke but I would think it is an unusual colour for smoke.
Mark Jackson
2018-09-04 21:29:47 UTC
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On 9/4/2018 4:07 PM, keefy wrote:
> On 04/09/2018 11:15, build wrote:

>> Carbon fibre dust is very black.

> And is the smoke from carbon fibre, perhaps burning, also black or is
> it white or another colour? But Renault did not say it was the clutch
> itself, rather it was a clutch issue. So it could be thrust bearing,
> lubricant, hydraulic oil etc. I am not a chemist so I do not know
> what creates white smoke

Popes.

> but I would think it is an unusual colour for smoke.

--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
The deep lesson of the notion of opportunity cost is that
every single second of your life is lived suboptimally.
- Zach Weinersmith
keefy
2018-09-04 22:57:27 UTC
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On 04/09/2018 23:29, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 9/4/2018 4:07 PM, keefy wrote:
>> On 04/09/2018 11:15, build wrote:
>
>>> Carbon fibre dust is very black.
>
>> And is the smoke from carbon fibre, perhaps burning, also black or is
>> it white or another colour? But Renault did not say it was the clutch
>>  itself, rather it was a clutch issue. So it could be thrust bearing,
>>  lubricant, hydraulic oil etc. I am not a chemist so I do not know
>> what creates white smoke
>
> Popes.
>
>
LOL
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