Discussion:
GPs won from 14th on grid
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Brian W Lawrence
2018-07-24 12:03:21 UTC
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Alan Jones (Shadow) Austrian GP, 1977
Olivier Panis (Ligier) Monaco GP, 1996
Johnny Herbert (Stewart) European GP, 1999
Jenson Button (Honda) Hungarian GP, 2006
Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes) German GP, 2018

While checking the above I found a file I hadn't updated since 2004.
This is the up to date version:

Grid Won Last GP won %age won
================================================
Pole 413 984 Hamilton FRA 18 41.72% (3)
2 215 986 Vettel GBR 18 21.72%
3 116 977 Vettel AUS 18 11.72% (2)
4 62 985 Verstappen AUT 18 6.26%
5 47 970 Hamilton SIN 17 4.75%
6 37 979 Ricciardo CHN 18 3.74%
7 20 879 Räikkönen AUS 13 2.02% (1)
8 16 860 Alonso MAS 12 1.62%
9 4 393 Lauda FRA 84 0.40%
10 10 964 Ricciardo AZB 17 1.01%
11 4 866 Alonso EUR 12 0.40%
12 4 478 Mansell HUN 89 0.40%
13 3 490 Prost MEX 90 0.30%
14 6 987 Hamilton GER 18 0.61%
15 1 800 Alonso SIN 08 0.10%
16 2 575 M Schumacher BEL 95 0.20%
17 2 749 Räikkönen JPN 05 0.20%
18 1 657 Barrichello GER 00 0.10%
19 1 34 Vukovich Ind 54 0.10%
20 - - - ------ -----
21 - - - ------ -----
22 1 375 Watson LB 83 0.10%
------------------------------------------------
990 (3)

Since I last updated the file another 262 GPs have taken place. In
that time the %age won from pole has increased by 4%; 2nd has
fallen by ~1.5% & 3rd has fallen by 1%. All other %ages have fallen
very slightly, except those for 14th, 15th & 17th, which rose by
a tiny amount.

The counts for pole, 3rd & 7th include the 6 drivers who shared 3
wins in the 1950s. The drivers who took the flag all qualified in
pole position (Fangio [2] & Moss), while Fagioli (7th), Musso (3rd)
and Brooks (3rd) were the ones who gave up their cars.
Bruce Hoult
2018-07-24 15:34:50 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
Alan Jones (Shadow) Austrian GP, 1977
Olivier Panis (Ligier) Monaco GP, 1996
Johnny Herbert (Stewart) European GP, 1999
Jenson Button (Honda) Hungarian GP, 2006
Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes) German GP, 2018
While checking the above I found a file I hadn't updated since 2004.
Grid Won Last GP won %age won
================================================
Pole 413 984 Hamilton FRA 18 41.72% (3)
2 215 986 Vettel GBR 18 21.72%
3 116 977 Vettel AUS 18 11.72% (2)
4 62 985 Verstappen AUT 18 6.26%
5 47 970 Hamilton SIN 17 4.75%
6 37 979 Ricciardo CHN 18 3.74%
7 20 879 Räikkönen AUS 13 2.02% (1)
8 16 860 Alonso MAS 12 1.62%
9 4 393 Lauda FRA 84 0.40%
10 10 964 Ricciardo AZB 17 1.01%
11 4 866 Alonso EUR 12 0.40%
12 4 478 Mansell HUN 89 0.40%
13 3 490 Prost MEX 90 0.30%
14 6 987 Hamilton GER 18 0.61%
15 1 800 Alonso SIN 08 0.10%
16 2 575 M Schumacher BEL 95 0.20%
17 2 749 Räikkönen JPN 05 0.20%
18 1 657 Barrichello GER 00 0.10%
19 1 34 Vukovich Ind 54 0.10%
20 - - - ------ -----
21 - - - ------ -----
22 1 375 Watson LB 83 0.10%
------------------------------------------------
990 (3)
Since I last updated the file another 262 GPs have taken place. In
that time the %age won from pole has increased by 4%; 2nd has
fallen by ~1.5% & 3rd has fallen by 1%. All other %ages have fallen
very slightly, except those for 14th, 15th & 17th, which rose by
a tiny amount.
The counts for pole, 3rd & 7th include the 6 drivers who shared 3
wins in the 1950s. The drivers who took the flag all qualified in
pole position (Fangio [2] & Moss), while Fagioli (7th), Musso (3rd)
and Brooks (3rd) were the ones who gave up their cars.
Interesting that 14th is so much more popular than the other numbers around it. Presumably the vast majority are fast cars qualifying badly due to failures or starting down the grid due to penalties but that doesn't seem to be the case with all of them. Herbert and Panis, at least, just got lucky.

Button, Hungary 2006: qualified 4th, 7 thousandths behind teammate Barrichello but got a 10 place penalty for a new engine. Wet race, all cars on Bridgestone tyres struggled. Heidfeld finished 3rd after starting 10th, Sauber's first ever podium. Alonso started 15th, overtook his way to 3rd then inherited the lead when the McLarens pitted. Button made a number of overtakes but it was staying out under a safety car that got him to 2nd behind Alonso. He inherited 1st when Alonso crashed from a loose wheel after both had pitted. Only 8/22 cars finished (and Kubica was later DSQd).

Herbert, European GP 1999: qualified an honest 14th, 11 hundredths ahead of teammate Barrichello. Wet race. Only 9/22 cars finished. It seems both Herbert and Barrichello mostly just kept their noses clean and made a perfectly-timed switch to wet tyres, while those in front of them crashed out or had breakdowns. The only race ever won by Stewart GP, and their only double podium (1st and 3rd).

Panis, Monaco 1996: qualified an honest 14th, 3 tenths ahead of teammate Diniz in 17th. Wet race, with only 3/22 cars taking the chequered flag. A 4th, Frentzen, was still circulating but pulled into the pits instead of taking the flag. The race was stopped three laps short due to the 2 hour time limit being hit. Panis made a great overtake on Irvine for 3rd at the hairpin, with a huge gap forward to the leading two, Hill, and Alesi. (Berger had been with the leaders in 3rd until gearbox failure on lap 10). Hill had an oil pump failure on lap 41, and Alesi suspension failure on lap 61.

Jones, Austria 1977: The race started on a wet but drying track, 16/26 starters finished (another 4 failed to qualify). Jones improved from 14th to 4th while the track was wet (and Nilsson from 16th to 2nd before pitting with ruined wet tyres). Jones overtook Stuck and Scheckter for 2nd on a dry track, before inheriting the lead when Hunt had engine failure. It was Jones' first win, and the only win ever for the Shadow team.
~misfit~
2018-07-25 06:46:10 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by Brian W Lawrence
Alan Jones (Shadow) Austrian GP, 1977
Olivier Panis (Ligier) Monaco GP, 1996
Johnny Herbert (Stewart) European GP, 1999
Jenson Button (Honda) Hungarian GP, 2006
Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes) German GP, 2018
While checking the above I found a file I hadn't updated since 2004.
Grid Won Last GP won %age won
================================================
Pole 413 984 Hamilton FRA 18 41.72% (3)
2 215 986 Vettel GBR 18 21.72%
3 116 977 Vettel AUS 18 11.72% (2)
4 62 985 Verstappen AUT 18 6.26%
5 47 970 Hamilton SIN 17 4.75%
6 37 979 Ricciardo CHN 18 3.74%
7 20 879 Räikkönen AUS 13 2.02% (1)
8 16 860 Alonso MAS 12 1.62%
9 4 393 Lauda FRA 84 0.40%
10 10 964 Ricciardo AZB 17 1.01%
11 4 866 Alonso EUR 12 0.40%
12 4 478 Mansell HUN 89 0.40%
13 3 490 Prost MEX 90 0.30%
14 6 987 Hamilton GER 18 0.61%
15 1 800 Alonso SIN 08 0.10%
16 2 575 M Schumacher BEL 95 0.20%
17 2 749 Räikkönen JPN 05 0.20%
18 1 657 Barrichello GER 00 0.10%
19 1 34 Vukovich Ind 54 0.10%
20 - - - ------ -----
21 - - - ------ -----
22 1 375 Watson LB 83 0.10%
------------------------------------------------
990 (3)
Since I last updated the file another 262 GPs have taken place. In
that time the %age won from pole has increased by 4%; 2nd has
fallen by ~1.5% & 3rd has fallen by 1%. All other %ages have fallen
very slightly, except those for 14th, 15th & 17th, which rose by
a tiny amount.
The counts for pole, 3rd & 7th include the 6 drivers who shared 3
wins in the 1950s. The drivers who took the flag all qualified in
pole position (Fangio [2] & Moss), while Fagioli (7th), Musso (3rd)
and Brooks (3rd) were the ones who gave up their cars.
Interesting that 14th is so much more popular than the other numbers
around it. Presumably the vast majority are fast cars qualifying
badly due to failures or starting down the grid due to penalties but
that doesn't seem to be the case with all of them. Herbert and Panis,
at least, just got lucky.
Button, Hungary 2006: qualified 4th, 7 thousandths behind teammate
Barrichello but got a 10 place penalty for a new engine. Wet race,
all cars on Bridgestone tyres struggled. Heidfeld finished 3rd after
starting 10th, Sauber's first ever podium. Alonso started 15th,
overtook his way to 3rd then inherited the lead when the McLarens
pitted. Button made a number of overtakes but it was staying out
under a safety car that got him to 2nd behind Alonso. He inherited
1st when Alonso crashed from a loose wheel after both had pitted.
Only 8/22 cars finished (and Kubica was later DSQd).
Herbert, European GP 1999: qualified an honest 14th, 11 hundredths
ahead of teammate Barrichello. Wet race. Only 9/22 cars finished. It
seems both Herbert and Barrichello mostly just kept their noses clean
and made a perfectly-timed switch to wet tyres, while those in front
of them crashed out or had breakdowns. The only race ever won by
Stewart GP, and their only double podium (1st and 3rd).
Panis, Monaco 1996: qualified an honest 14th, 3 tenths ahead of
teammate Diniz in 17th. Wet race, with only 3/22 cars taking the
chequered flag. A 4th, Frentzen, was still circulating but pulled
into the pits instead of taking the flag. The race was stopped three
laps short due to the 2 hour time limit being hit. Panis made a great
overtake on Irvine for 3rd at the hairpin, with a huge gap forward to
the leading two, Hill, and Alesi. (Berger had been with the leaders
in 3rd until gearbox failure on lap 10). Hill had an oil pump failure
on lap 41, and Alesi suspension failure on lap 61.
Jones, Austria 1977: The race started on a wet but drying track,
16/26 starters finished (another 4 failed to qualify). Jones improved
from 14th to 4th while the track was wet (and Nilsson from 16th to
2nd before pitting with ruined wet tyres). Jones overtook Stuck and
Scheckter for 2nd on a dry track, before inheriting the lead when
Hunt had engine failure. It was Jones' first win, and the only win
ever for the Shadow team.
I remember all of those well except Jones (I wasn't fully commited to F1 at
that stage, only a filthy casual). I was quite pleased for Panis as he
always seemed like a decent bloke.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-25 16:23:05 UTC
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(I wasn't fully commited to F1 at that stage, only a filthy casual).
Yup, now a fully commited pirater of F1 tv coverage.

News
2018-07-24 15:54:17 UTC
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Alan Jones (Shadow)           Austrian GP, 1977
Olivier Panis (Ligier)        Monaco GP, 1996
Johnny Herbert (Stewart)      European GP, 1999
Jenson Button (Honda)         Hungarian GP, 2006
Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes)     German GP, 2018
While checking the above I found a file I hadn't updated since 2004.
Grid  Won    Last GP won                %age won
================================================
Pole  413    984  Hamilton      FRA 18   41.72%  (3)
 2    215    986  Vettel        GBR 18   21.72%
 3    116    977  Vettel        AUS 18   11.72%  (2)
 4     62    985  Verstappen    AUT 18    6.26%
 5     47    970  Hamilton      SIN 17    4.75%
 6     37    979  Ricciardo     CHN 18    3.74%
 7     20    879  Räikkönen     AUS 13    2.02%  (1)
 8     16    860  Alonso        MAS 12    1.62%
 9      4    393  Lauda         FRA 84    0.40%
10     10    964  Ricciardo     AZB 17    1.01%
11      4    866  Alonso        EUR 12    0.40%
12      4    478  Mansell       HUN 89    0.40%
13      3    490  Prost         MEX 90    0.30%
14      6    987  Hamilton      GER 18    0.61%
15      1    800  Alonso        SIN 08    0.10%
16      2    575  M Schumacher  BEL 95    0.20%
17      2    749  Räikkönen     JPN 05    0.20%
18      1    657  Barrichello   GER 00    0.10%
19      1     34  Vukovich      Ind 54    0.10%
20      -      -  -             ------    -----
21      -      -  -             ------    -----
22      1    375  Watson        LB  83    0.10%
------------------------------------------------
      990 (3)
Since I last updated the file another 262 GPs have taken place. In
that time the %age won from pole has increased by 4%; 2nd has
fallen by ~1.5% & 3rd has fallen by 1%. All other %ages have fallen
very slightly, except those for 14th, 15th & 17th, which rose by
a tiny amount.
The counts for pole, 3rd & 7th include the 6 drivers who shared 3
wins in the 1950s. The drivers who took the flag all qualified in
pole position (Fangio [2] & Moss), while Fagioli (7th), Musso (3rd)
and Brooks (3rd) were the ones who gave up their cars.
That was one hell of a drive by John Watson at Long Beach.
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