Discussion:
Hamilton / Vettel after re-start
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larkim
2017-08-30 08:24:57 UTC
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On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a little
on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too close to get
the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why they were so close
at the top of the hill.

Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too close
but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than Hamilton
being too canny.

Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage the guy
chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the end of the
Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was flat out.
s***@yahoo.com
2017-08-30 11:06:36 UTC
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Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a little
on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too close to get
the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why they were so close
at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too close
but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than Hamilton
being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage the guy
chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the end of the
Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the speedtrap.
larkim
2017-08-30 11:41:17 UTC
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Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a little
on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too close to get
the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why they were so close
at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too close
but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than Hamilton
being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage the guy
chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the end of the
Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?

And given that Vettel agrees with the diagnosis, I reckon I'll believe them
in their views rather than yours.
Edmund
2017-08-30 13:41:53 UTC
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Post by larkim
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Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Teams an certainly Mercedes can and will do such things no matter what
they say in public. We otoh can only guess which car has more power then
the other.

Edmund
Bobster
2017-08-30 13:50:20 UTC
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Post by Edmund
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Teams an certainly Mercedes can and will do such things no matter what
they say in public. We otoh can only guess which car has more power then
the other.
Why is it a problem that he asked to use a more powerful mode? As long as it's not illegal, what is the problem?

It's clear from qualifying that the Mercs have a mode that allows them extra power for a short period of time. Presumably they'd run that all race if they could, but they're not able to.
Duddie
2017-08-30 13:57:51 UTC
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Post by Bobster
It's clear from qualifying that the Mercs have a mode that allows them extra power for a short period of time. Presumably they'd run that all race if they could, but they're not able to.
There is standardised ECU developed by Macca that FIA and stewards have full insight into. They would not be able to run anything abnormal.
Edmund
2017-08-30 15:46:42 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Teams an certainly Mercedes can and will do such things no matter what
they say in public. We otoh can only guess which car has more power
then the other.
Why is it a problem that he asked to use a more powerful mode? As long
as it's not illegal, what is the problem?
I didn't say there is a problem, my reaction is about the
" it didn't help Bottas much".
Post by Bobster
It's clear from qualifying that the Mercs have a mode that allows them
extra power for a short period of time. Presumably they'd run that all
race if they could, but they're not able to.
Edmund
Bobster
2017-08-30 19:39:37 UTC
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Post by Edmund
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Teams an certainly Mercedes can and will do such things no matter what
they say in public. We otoh can only guess which car has more power
then the other.
Why is it a problem that he asked to use a more powerful mode? As long
as it's not illegal, what is the problem?
I didn't say there is a problem, my reaction is about the
" it didn't help Bottas much".
ok. Got that.

Some googling reveals a couple of things. One is that Bottas was having a problem with traction out of La Source.

"I could see when I was behind Kimi that out of the last corner and out of Turn 1 I was definitely losing out on traction quite a bit."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131513/bottas-has-no-answers-for-spa-struggle

Another is that on the restart, Ricciardo had the ultra softs, whilst Bottas only had softs. OK... same situation as with Hamilton and Vettel, but Hamilton didn't have the traction problem, got that extra squirt and Vettel was actually able to press him really hard.
larkim
2017-08-30 22:34:55 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Teams an certainly Mercedes can and will do such things no matter what
they say in public. We otoh can only guess which car has more power
then the other.
Why is it a problem that he asked to use a more powerful mode? As long
as it's not illegal, what is the problem?
I didn't say there is a problem, my reaction is about the
" it didn't help Bottas much".
ok. Got that.
Some googling reveals a couple of things. One is that Bottas was having a problem with traction out of La Source.
"I could see when I was behind Kimi that out of the last corner and out of Turn 1 I was definitely losing out on traction quite a bit."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131513/bottas-has-no-answers-for-spa-struggle
Another is that on the restart, Ricciardo had the ultra softs, whilst Bottas only had softs. OK... same situation as with Hamilton and Vettel, but Hamilton didn't have the traction problem, got that extra squirt and Vettel was actually able to press him really hard.
And so my point is proven.

The OP wrote something along the lines of "any chump could keep Vettel
behind with that engine advantage". The bottom line being that even with
that advantage, there were other factors (such as Bottas' issue with low
grip out of La Source) which were in play. Who knows, the low grip issue
could be because of the way Bottas used his tyres vs the way Hamilton used
his.

Bottom line is that, even with a paddock-accepted engine advantage in the
Merc, it's not just about the power, its about using it (and being able to
use it) well. Whether or not Bottas got any more use of special buttons
compared to Hamilton is complete speculation, but on the basis that I'm
sure they'd prefer a 1-3 compared to the 1-5 that Merc got, I'd expect if
there was a higher power mode available, Bottas had equal use of it - after
all, who's engine protection is more important - Ham or Bot?
Bobster
2017-08-31 02:27:07 UTC
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Post by larkim
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Teams an certainly Mercedes can and will do such things no matter what
they say in public. We otoh can only guess which car has more power
then the other.
Why is it a problem that he asked to use a more powerful mode? As long
as it's not illegal, what is the problem?
I didn't say there is a problem, my reaction is about the
" it didn't help Bottas much".
ok. Got that.
Some googling reveals a couple of things. One is that Bottas was having a problem with traction out of La Source.
"I could see when I was behind Kimi that out of the last corner and out of Turn 1 I was definitely losing out on traction quite a bit."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131513/bottas-has-no-answers-for-spa-struggle
Another is that on the restart, Ricciardo had the ultra softs, whilst Bottas only had softs. OK... same situation as with Hamilton and Vettel, but Hamilton didn't have the traction problem, got that extra squirt and Vettel was actually able to press him really hard.
And so my point is proven.
The OP wrote something along the lines of "any chump could keep Vettel
behind with that engine advantage". The bottom line being that even with
that advantage, there were other factors (such as Bottas' issue with low
grip out of La Source) which were in play. Who knows, the low grip issue
could be because of the way Bottas used his tyres vs the way Hamilton used
his.
Bottom line is that, even with a paddock-accepted engine advantage in the
Merc, it's not just about the power, its about using it (and being able to
use it) well. Whether or not Bottas got any more use of special buttons
compared to Hamilton is complete speculation, but on the basis that I'm
sure they'd prefer a 1-3 compared to the 1-5 that Merc got, I'd expect if
there was a higher power mode available, Bottas had equal use of it - after
all, who's engine protection is more important - Ham or Bot?
One might also add that Bottas went off the track and speculate as to how much help a restricted use engine mode would have been in such a situation.
Bobster
2017-08-31 02:57:51 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by larkim
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Teams an certainly Mercedes can and will do such things no matter what
they say in public. We otoh can only guess which car has more power
then the other.
Why is it a problem that he asked to use a more powerful mode? As long
as it's not illegal, what is the problem?
I didn't say there is a problem, my reaction is about the
" it didn't help Bottas much".
ok. Got that.
Some googling reveals a couple of things. One is that Bottas was having a problem with traction out of La Source.
"I could see when I was behind Kimi that out of the last corner and out of Turn 1 I was definitely losing out on traction quite a bit."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131513/bottas-has-no-answers-for-spa-struggle
Another is that on the restart, Ricciardo had the ultra softs, whilst Bottas only had softs. OK... same situation as with Hamilton and Vettel, but Hamilton didn't have the traction problem, got that extra squirt and Vettel was actually able to press him really hard.
And so my point is proven.
The OP wrote something along the lines of "any chump could keep Vettel
behind with that engine advantage". The bottom line being that even with
that advantage, there were other factors (such as Bottas' issue with low
grip out of La Source) which were in play. Who knows, the low grip issue
could be because of the way Bottas used his tyres vs the way Hamilton used
his.
Bottom line is that, even with a paddock-accepted engine advantage in the
Merc, it's not just about the power, its about using it (and being able to
use it) well. Whether or not Bottas got any more use of special buttons
compared to Hamilton is complete speculation, but on the basis that I'm
sure they'd prefer a 1-3 compared to the 1-5 that Merc got, I'd expect if
there was a higher power mode available, Bottas had equal use of it - after
all, who's engine protection is more important - Ham or Bot?
One might also add that Bottas went off the track and speculate as to how much help a restricted use engine mode would have been in such a situation.
Doh! THough he went off at the top of the straight.

Bottas was third through eau rouge, but seems to struggle up the hill compared to not just Vettel and Hamilton ahead, but also compared to Raikkonen and Ricciardo. That much is clear, but there's a lot of factors that could explain why that is.
Bobster
2017-08-31 14:05:04 UTC
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Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
Post by Edmund
Teams an certainly Mercedes can and will do such things no matter what
they say in public. We otoh can only guess which car has more power then
the other.
Edmund
.
2017-08-31 14:13:15 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
Unfortunately you don't have a transcript of the voices in his
(edlonso) head, you know, the ones that tell him that he's an
engineer, among other inane and nonsensical revelations.
--
My mirror continues its finite yet unbounded journey.
News
2017-08-31 14:20:34 UTC
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Post by .
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
Unfortunately you don't have a transcript of the voices in his
(edlonso) head, you know, the ones that tell him that he's an
engineer, among other inane and nonsensical revelations.
Thanks for contributing... "other inane and nonsensical revelations".
Edmund
2017-08-31 15:12:52 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted
a little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was
too close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is
why they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to
the end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that
was flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-
radio-transcript/
Post by Bobster
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
If you don't have it there, I'll take your word for it.
My source is the German TV broadcast.

Edmund
Bobster
2017-08-31 17:40:23 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted
a little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was
too close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is
why they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to
the end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that
was flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-
radio-transcript/
Post by Bobster
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
If you don't have it there, I'll take your word for it.
My source is the German TV broadcast.
Edmund
Well, the question now must be did YOU hear Hamilton asking for more power?

Or was it Marc Surer saying that he bets that Hamilton asked for more power?
Edmund
2017-08-31 22:01:55 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Bobster
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted
a little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was
too close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is
why they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to
the end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that
was flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-
radio-transcript/
Post by Bobster
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
If you don't have it there, I'll take your word for it.
My source is the German TV broadcast.
Edmund
Well, the question now must be did YOU hear Hamilton asking for more power?
Or was it Marc Surer saying that he bets that Hamilton asked for more power?
I am not sure, I wasn't paying much attention and I had a conversation with my wife.

Edmund
Alan Baker
2017-08-31 16:02:11 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
"Note: Only includes messages which were broadcast in the race coverage."
Bobster
2017-08-31 17:41:43 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
"Note: Only includes messages which were broadcast in the race coverage."
Sure. But if it WASN'T broadcast during the race, then how did anybody hear it?
Alan Baker
2017-08-31 17:55:15 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
"Note: Only includes messages which were broadcast in the race coverage."
Sure. But if it WASN'T broadcast during the race, then how did anybody hear it?
Because people behind the scenes in the media can hear all the radio
messages? Just because not all the messages make it into the broadcast
doesn't mean the media isn't getting them.
Bobster
2017-08-31 18:29:28 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
"Note: Only includes messages which were broadcast in the race coverage."
Sure. But if it WASN'T broadcast during the race, then how did anybody hear it?
Because people behind the scenes in the media can hear all the radio
messages? Just because not all the messages make it into the broadcast
doesn't mean the media isn't getting them.
This is true. We hear the Sky guys saying things like "we hear Bottas asking why he's not allowed to use top gear."

But there seems to be very little evidence of this particular request from Hamilton.
Alan Baker
2017-09-01 04:47:04 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
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Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
"Note: Only includes messages which were broadcast in the race coverage."
Sure. But if it WASN'T broadcast during the race, then how did anybody hear it?
Because people behind the scenes in the media can hear all the radio
messages? Just because not all the messages make it into the broadcast
doesn't mean the media isn't getting them.
This is true. We hear the Sky guys saying things like "we hear Bottas asking why he's not allowed to use top gear."
But there seems to be very little evidence of this particular request from Hamilton.
And I'm not saying there was.

I'm just debunking the idiotic idea that if it wasn't in the broadcast
it can't have been said.
Bobster
2017-09-01 05:22:14 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
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Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
"Note: Only includes messages which were broadcast in the race coverage."
Sure. But if it WASN'T broadcast during the race, then how did anybody hear it?
Because people behind the scenes in the media can hear all the radio
messages? Just because not all the messages make it into the broadcast
doesn't mean the media isn't getting them.
This is true. We hear the Sky guys saying things like "we hear Bottas asking why he's not allowed to use top gear."
But there seems to be very little evidence of this particular request from Hamilton.
And I'm not saying there was.
I'm just debunking the idiotic idea that if it wasn't in the broadcast
it can't have been said.
Please try and debunk things that somebody actually said.
Alan Baker
2017-09-01 05:27:11 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
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Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
"Note: Only includes messages which were broadcast in the race coverage."
Sure. But if it WASN'T broadcast during the race, then how did anybody hear it?
Because people behind the scenes in the media can hear all the radio
messages? Just because not all the messages make it into the broadcast
doesn't mean the media isn't getting them.
This is true. We hear the Sky guys saying things like "we hear Bottas asking why he's not allowed to use top gear."
But there seems to be very little evidence of this particular request from Hamilton.
And I'm not saying there was.
I'm just debunking the idiotic idea that if it wasn't in the broadcast
it can't have been said.
Please try and debunk things that somebody actually said.
How does this:

'>Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?'

...not say just that?
Bobster
2017-09-01 06:22:37 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a
little on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too
close to get the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why
they were so close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too
close but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than
Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage
the guy chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the
end of the Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was
flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel
behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but I guess you did not
hear Ham asking -and getting- for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
"Note: Only includes messages which were broadcast in the race coverage."
Sure. But if it WASN'T broadcast during the race, then how did anybody hear it?
Because people behind the scenes in the media can hear all the radio
messages? Just because not all the messages make it into the broadcast
doesn't mean the media isn't getting them.
This is true. We hear the Sky guys saying things like "we hear Bottas asking why he's not allowed to use top gear."
But there seems to be very little evidence of this particular request from Hamilton.
And I'm not saying there was.
I'm just debunking the idiotic idea that if it wasn't in the broadcast
it can't have been said.
Please try and debunk things that somebody actually said.
'>Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?'
...not say just that?
No. I never made that claim that because we didn't hear it, it couldn't have been said.

But it's worth wondering how, if Hamilton said this and if it was made available to commentary teams but not broadcast, why other commentary teams didn't mention it, and why it wasn't included in FOM's own race highlights package.
Alan Baker
2017-09-01 06:33:20 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 15:46:18 UTC+2, Edmund
Post by Edmund
On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 12:06:37 UTC+1,
On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 09:24:59 UTC+1,
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported
as saying he'd lifted a little on the descent
down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was
too close to get the full tow along the
Kemmel straight, which is why they were so
close at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he
thought he did get too close but of course
blamed himself for being too fast, rather
than Hamilton being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting
observation about how to manage the guy
chasing you down, when I presumed that from
La Source to the end of the Kemmel straight
there was only one tactic, and that was flat
out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump
could have kept Vettel behind with that engine
advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the
speedtrap.
Didn't seem to help Bottas that much, did it?
Well a speed trap isn't telling the whole story but
I guess you did not hear Ham asking -and getting-
for more power did you?
Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast
during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
"Note: Only includes messages which were broadcast in
the race coverage."
Sure. But if it WASN'T broadcast during the race, then
how did anybody hear it?
Because people behind the scenes in the media can hear all
the radio messages? Just because not all the messages make
it into the broadcast doesn't mean the media isn't getting
them.
This is true. We hear the Sky guys saying things like "we
hear Bottas asking why he's not allowed to use top gear."
But there seems to be very little evidence of this particular
request from Hamilton.
And I'm not saying there was.
I'm just debunking the idiotic idea that if it wasn't in the
broadcast it can't have been said.
Please try and debunk things that somebody actually said.
'>Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?'
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
...not say just that?
No. I never made that claim that because we didn't hear it, it
couldn't have been said.
It's certainly what you implied...
Post by Bobster
But it's worth wondering how, if Hamilton said this and if it was
made available to commentary teams but not broadcast, why other
commentary teams didn't mention it, and why it wasn't included in
FOM's own race highlights package.
No, it's not worth wondering "how". The "how" is easy. What you're
really questioning is WHY.
Bobster
2017-09-01 06:58:34 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Please try and debunk things that somebody actually said.
'>Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?'
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
...not say just that?
No. I never made that claim that because we didn't hear it, it couldn't have been said.
It's certainly what you implied...
Says you. The great thing about implications is that with a little effort, you can always see one.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
But it's worth wondering how, if Hamilton said this and if it was
made available to commentary teams but not broadcast, why other
commentary teams didn't mention it, and why it wasn't included in
FOM's own race highlights package.
No, it's not worth wondering "how". The "how" is easy. What you're
really questioning is WHY.
Sorry, clumsily expressed. I'm not questing the how, I'm wondering why nobody else seems to have seen fit to mention what you'd think would be a rather interesting piece of information.

Since Edmund is not sure if he actually did hear it, I think the odds are tipping in favour of it having not been said.
Alan Baker
2017-09-01 07:59:35 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Please try and debunk things that somebody actually said.
'>Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?'
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
...not say just that?
No. I never made that claim that because we didn't hear it, it couldn't have been said.
It's certainly what you implied...
Says you. The great thing about implications is that with a little
effort, you can always see one.
So what DID you mean?
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
But it's worth wondering how, if Hamilton said this and if it
was made available to commentary teams but not broadcast, why
other commentary teams didn't mention it, and why it wasn't
included in FOM's own race highlights package.
No, it's not worth wondering "how". The "how" is easy. What you're
really questioning is WHY.
Sorry, clumsily expressed. I'm not questing the how, I'm wondering
why nobody else seems to have seen fit to mention what you'd think
would be a rather interesting piece of information.
Since Edmund is not sure if he actually did hear it, I think the odds
are tipping in favour of it having not been said.
I seem to recall hearing the commentators mentioning it as well.
Sir Tim
2017-09-01 08:12:03 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Please try and debunk things that somebody actually said.
'>Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?'
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
...not say just that?
No. I never made that claim that because we didn't hear it, it
couldn't have been said.
It's certainly what you implied...
Says you. The great thing about implications is that with a little
effort, you can always see one.
So what DID you mean?
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
But it's worth wondering how, if Hamilton said this and if it
was made available to commentary teams but not broadcast, why
other commentary teams didn't mention it, and why it wasn't
included in FOM's own race highlights package.
No, it's not worth wondering "how". The "how" is easy. What you're
really questioning is WHY.
Sorry, clumsily expressed. I'm not questing the how, I'm wondering
why nobody else seems to have seen fit to mention what you'd think
would be a rather interesting piece of information.
Since Edmund is not sure if he actually did hear it, I think the odds
are tipping in favour of it having not been said.
I seem to recall hearing the commentators mentioning it as well.
Interesting that Edmund is "not sure" because he was talking to his wife
and you "seem to recall" hearing the commentators mentioning it.

Personally I can' t see that it matters a damn anyway.
--
Sir Tim
Bigbird
2017-09-01 09:51:19 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Alan Baker
I seem to recall hearing the commentators mentioning it as well.
Interesting that Edmund is "not sure" because he was talking to his
wife and you "seem to recall" hearing the commentators mentioning it.
Alan only seems to recall it recently; perhaps he is susceptible to his
own suggestions.
Post by Sir Tim
Personally I can' t see that it matters a damn anyway.
It's simply one of Edmunds ruses; not worth a second thought.
Alan Baker
2017-09-02 05:46:17 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Alan Baker
I seem to recall hearing the commentators mentioning it as well.
Interesting that Edmund is "not sure" because he was talking to his
wife and you "seem to recall" hearing the commentators mentioning it.
Alan only seems to recall it recently; perhaps he is susceptible to his
own suggestions.
Nope. Alan just didn't have much interest.
Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Personally I can' t see that it matters a damn anyway.
It's simply one of Edmunds ruses; not worth a second thought.
Alan Baker
2017-09-02 05:45:44 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Please try and debunk things that somebody actually said.
'>Here's a transcript of radio communications broadcast during the race.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/31/2017-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Where does Hamilton ask for more power?'
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
...not say just that?
No. I never made that claim that because we didn't hear it, it
couldn't have been said.
It's certainly what you implied...
Says you. The great thing about implications is that with a little
effort, you can always see one.
So what DID you mean?
Post by Bobster
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
But it's worth wondering how, if Hamilton said this and if it
was made available to commentary teams but not broadcast, why
other commentary teams didn't mention it, and why it wasn't
included in FOM's own race highlights package.
No, it's not worth wondering "how". The "how" is easy. What you're
really questioning is WHY.
Sorry, clumsily expressed. I'm not questing the how, I'm wondering
why nobody else seems to have seen fit to mention what you'd think
would be a rather interesting piece of information.
Since Edmund is not sure if he actually did hear it, I think the odds
are tipping in favour of it having not been said.
I seem to recall hearing the commentators mentioning it as well.
Interesting that Edmund is "not sure" because he was talking to his wife
and you "seem to recall" hearing the commentators mentioning it.
Personally I can' t see that it matters a damn anyway.
I DON'T think it matters a damn. I'm just stating what I believe I
remember and expressing how certain I am that I'm remembering it
correctly. The very fact that I don't think it matters explains why I'm
not all that certain.
Bobster
2017-09-01 08:25:38 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bobster
Since Edmund is not sure if he actually did hear it, I think the odds
are tipping in favour of it having not been said.
I seem to recall hearing the commentators mentioning it as well.
Alan! This is so gradual.
News
2017-08-30 11:42:57 UTC
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Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by larkim
On the BBC F1 podcast, Hamilton was reported as saying he'd lifted a little
on the descent down to Eau Rouge so that that Vettel was too close to get
the full tow along the Kemmel straight, which is why they were so close
at the top of the hill.
Vettel seemed to confirm at least that he thought he did get too close
but of course blamed himself for being too fast, rather than Hamilton
being too canny.
Just thought it was an interesting observation about how to manage the guy
chasing you down, when I presumed that from La Source to the end of the
Kemmel straight there was only one tactic, and that was flat out.
Hamilton self promotion bullshit. Any chump could have kept Vettel behind with that engine advantage. He was 6km/h faster in the speedtrap.
Burning the midnight "lubricating oil' ...
Duddie
2017-08-30 13:46:36 UTC
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Post by News
Burning the midnight "lubricating oil' ...
Summoning texasgate?
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