Discussion:
Rumble strips
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bra
2018-04-04 16:41:15 UTC
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Is there a single spec for all rumble strips on all F1 circuits, as regards materials, 'amplitude frequency', etc?

Are the strips different in any way on outside versus inside bends?

Is the spec developed in consultation with team engineers, and drivers?

Apart from [presumably] milk-shaking the driver, I can't see much purpose to them, since every driver drives on rumble strips on every corner of every circuit, just as they would drive on merely painted track edges.

Has anyone experimented with drop-away cambered strips, sloping lower than the track surface? (My single race lesson taught me to weight the outside wheel by benefiting from the strip's "lift" on the inside wheel.)

It maybe doesn't matter except my logical brain is frustrated by watching a purposeless phenomenon in every race.
Alan Baker
2018-04-04 16:59:31 UTC
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Post by bra
Is there a single spec for all rumble strips on all F1 circuits, as
regards materials, 'amplitude frequency', etc?
There is, and here's a link that while it doesn't actually contain the
specs, it describes the different kinds of kerbs (the FIA's preferred
term and spelling) that are used:

<https://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/EF1C77C42088DBFDC12573620047372C/$FILE/01__Circuit_Drawing_Format.pdf>
Post by bra
Are the strips different in any way on outside versus inside bends?
Yes.
Post by bra
Is the spec developed in consultation with team engineers, and
drivers?
Don't know that either, but I'd expect so.
Post by bra
Apart from [presumably] milk-shaking the driver, I can't see much
purpose to them, since every driver drives on rumble strips on every
corner of every circuit, just as they would drive on merely painted
track edges.
That's definitely a problem. The size of rumble strip you need to build
to prevent drivers from driving on them at all become a danger if
there's an incident that forces a car over them at speed.
Post by bra
Has anyone experimented with drop-away cambered strips, sloping lower
than the track surface? (My single race lesson taught me to weight
the outside wheel by benefiting from the strip's "lift" on the inside
wheel.)
That's a bit of an odd way to put it. When it comes to the curbing at
the apex, the chief advantage of going over it is that it allows you to
run a larger radius through the bend, and radius is speed.

A small change in the tilt of the car isn't going to change the weight
distribution very much, and in point of fact, you want to /decrease/
weight transfer in any racing car. That's why you make the centre of
mass as low as possible: because you lose more grip from the unweighted
side than you gain back on the weighted side.
Post by bra
It maybe doesn't matter except my logical brain is frustrated by
watching a purposeless phenomenon in every race.
I'd love to see if a high-tech solution could be implemented where the
curbs have progressively less grip the further out you go, so that
drivers would naturally have to avoid driving past a certain point.
bra
2018-04-04 17:18:10 UTC
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Post by bra
Is there a single spec for all rumble strips on all F1 circuits, as
regards materials, 'amplitude frequency', etc?
Thank you, Alan :-)
Calum
2018-04-05 12:37:21 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
I'd love to see if a high-tech solution could be implemented where the
curbs have progressively less grip the further out you go, so that
drivers would naturally have to avoid driving past a certain point.
Or they could just make the drivers keep all four wheels on the track at
all times, rather than any part of any wheel. No fancy hi-tech solutions
necessary, and no more daft debates about track limits.
bra
2018-04-05 15:15:36 UTC
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Post by Calum
Or they could just make the drivers keep all four wheels on the track at
all times, rather than any part of any wheel. No fancy hi-tech solutions
necessary, and no more daft debates about track limits.
Some tracks experience no problems with corner-cutting:

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Alan Baker
2018-04-05 15:30:12 UTC
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Post by bra
Post by Calum
Or they could just make the drivers keep all four wheels on the track at
all times, rather than any part of any wheel. No fancy hi-tech solutions
necessary, and no more daft debates about track limits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier#/media/File:Milwaukee-Mile_Aug2009_wall.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier#/media/File:SaferBarrierTalladega.jpg
Hell, my own track has concrete barriers at a lot of its corners...

:-)
bra
2018-04-05 16:00:57 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by bra
Post by Calum
Or they could just make the drivers keep all four wheels on the track at
all times, rather than any part of any wheel. No fancy hi-tech solutions
necessary, and no more daft debates about track limits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier#/media/File:Milwaukee-Mile_Aug2009_wall.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier#/media/File:SaferBarrierTalladega.jpg
Hell, my own track has concrete barriers at a lot of its corners...
:-)
Mission Riverside? Terrifying.
"Do NOT look at the walls. Do NOT look at the walls."
Alan Baker
2018-04-05 16:19:41 UTC
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Post by bra
Post by Alan Baker
Post by bra
Post by Calum
Or they could just make the drivers keep all four wheels on the track at
all times, rather than any part of any wheel. No fancy hi-tech solutions
necessary, and no more daft debates about track limits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier#/media/File:Milwaukee-Mile_Aug2009_wall.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier#/media/File:SaferBarrierTalladega.jpg
Hell, my own track has concrete barriers at a lot of its corners...
:-)
Mission Riverside? Terrifying.
"Do NOT look at the walls. Do NOT look at the walls."
Ah, you know the track! ;-)

It's amazing what you can get used to, given sufficient time. :-D

Oh, and officially (although no one I know ever uses the name), it's:

"River's Edge at Mission Raceway Park"

..but we all just say, "Mission". :-)
bra
2018-04-05 18:16:14 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by bra
Mission Riverside? Terrifying.
"Do NOT look at the walls. Do NOT look at the walls."
Ah, you know the track! ;-)
It's amazing what you can get used to, given sufficient time. :-D
"River's Edge at Mission Raceway Park"
..but we all just say, "Mission". :-)
A FRIEND RACED M'BIKES THERE AND RECKONED IT WAS V E R Y DICEY.

I THRASHED A BORROWED HONDA CIVIC THERE, AND CONTEMPLATED THE END OF LIFE SEVERAL TIMES. BUT AS ANOTHER PAL SAYS, YOU MUST BE READY AND WILLING TO DIE AT EVERY CORNER IF YOU WANT A DECENT LAP TIME ;-)
Alan Baker
2018-04-05 18:23:39 UTC
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Post by bra
Post by Alan Baker
Post by bra
Mission Riverside? Terrifying.
"Do NOT look at the walls. Do NOT look at the walls."
Ah, you know the track! ;-)
It's amazing what you can get used to, given sufficient time. :-D
"River's Edge at Mission Raceway Park"
..but we all just say, "Mission". :-)
A FRIEND RACED M'BIKES THERE AND RECKONED IT WAS V E R Y DICEY.
I THRASHED A BORROWED HONDA CIVIC THERE, AND CONTEMPLATED THE END OF LIFE SEVERAL TIMES. BUT AS ANOTHER PAL SAYS, YOU MUST BE READY AND WILLING TO DIE AT EVERY CORNER IF YOU WANT A DECENT LAP TIME ;-)
Cool! I don't know that I agree with your pal's outlook, but if you're
still in the Vancouver area, come out and watch the racing some time.

<http://www.sccbc.net/calendar/schedule/>

At the moment, I'm planning to be there for the opening race weekend,
but my car is somewhere between here and North Carolina, and I've not
yet been given a good ETA for it.

Alan Baker
2018-04-05 15:27:41 UTC
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Post by Calum
Post by Alan Baker
I'd love to see if a high-tech solution could be implemented where the
curbs have progressively less grip the further out you go, so that
drivers would naturally have to avoid driving past a certain point.
Or they could just make the drivers keep all four wheels on the track at
all times, rather than any part of any wheel. No fancy hi-tech solutions
necessary, and no more daft debates about track limits.
Except then you're changing a fundamental of how racing has been done
since forever and something that looks and IS really cool.

Whether you make the rule keep all four wheels on the track at all times
or just keep a part of one wheel on the track, you still have the same
arguments about whether or not a driver stayed within those limits with
all the problems of human observation. A technical solution that makes
going off track a slower option removes all that.
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