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Baku discussion - here be spoilers....
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larkim
2018-04-29 14:30:35 UTC
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Max moved twice?
Unlucky Bottas!
Great restart.
Lucky Hamilton.
Stephen Thomas Cole
2018-04-29 14:50:26 UTC
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Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
Unlucky Bottas!
Great restart.
Lucky Hamilton.
Max needs shooting, for the incident and the earlier argy bargy, but
Ricciardo was playing silly buggers at points, too. Horner will be flipping
his lid at the pair of them.

Bottas, heartbreaking bad luck. Would have been great to see him fend off
Lewis for the final laps and take victory.

Seb ballsing up his lunge cracked me up.
--
STC / M0TEY /
http://twitter.com/ukradioamateur
larkim
2018-04-29 15:11:10 UTC
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Similar take in this household. I can see why max moved twice as that is the instinctive reaction, but that still looked like two (albeit small) moves to me.

Bottas deserved that one though, so that was a shame.
~misfit~
2018-04-30 03:59:34 UTC
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Post by larkim
Similar take in this household. I can see why max moved twice as
that is the instinctive reaction, but that still looked like two
(albeit small) moves to me.
Small or not at those speeds they're enough to cause mayhem. The stewards
also said they were "two small moves" but I've never heard the size of the
moves mentioned before when Charlie said drivers weren't allowed to move
more than once in the braking zone. It's populist bullshit, Max has a lot of
followers and Liberty is a media company that lives and dies by popular
opinion.

Daniel was much faster than Max but Max certainly wasn't being a team
player. He pushed Dan wide several times, twice making contact. How long
will it take the penny to drop - that he's an entitled arrogant brat who's
got no more talent than others around him and much worse judgement?
Post by larkim
Bottas deserved that one though, so that was a shame.
Agreed.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Edmund
2018-05-01 09:04:14 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Similar take in this household. I can see why max moved twice as that
is the instinctive reaction, but that still looked like two (albeit
small) moves to me.
Small or not at those speeds they're enough to cause mayhem.
Exactly! Some very biased Dutch commentators using it as an
excuse for mad Max but it really is BS.
At 300 + km/h a following driver has to react in a flash on
the slightest movement of a car in front.
Post by ~misfit~
The
stewards also said they were "two small moves" but I've never heard the
size of the moves mentioned before when Charlie said drivers weren't
allowed to move more than once in the braking zone. It's populist
bullshit, Max has a lot of followers and Liberty is a media company that
lives and dies by popular opinion.
Daniel was much faster than Max but Max certainly wasn't being a team
player. He pushed Dan wide several times, twice making contact. How long
will it take the penny to drop - that he's an entitled arrogant brat
who's got no more talent than others around him and much worse
judgement?
There is another Dutch ex-F1 driver who said about the same thing.
Also he pointed out that the Max was jeopardizing the RedBull result
by blocking his faster team mate and slowing down himself in the process
too.
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Bottas deserved that one though, so that was a shame.
Agreed.
A couple of drivers where extreme lucky, Bottas not so much :-)

Edmund
geoff
2018-05-01 10:42:41 UTC
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Post by Edmund
There is another Dutch ex-F1 driver who said about the same thing.
Also he pointed out that the Max was jeopardizing the RedBull result
by blocking his faster team mate and slowing down himself in the process
too.
And was doing it consistently through the race, up to that point.

geoff
larkim
2018-05-01 11:58:39 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Edmund
There is another Dutch ex-F1 driver who said about the same thing.
Also he pointed out that the Max was jeopardizing the RedBull result
by blocking his faster team mate and slowing down himself in the process
too.
And was doing it consistently through the race, up to that point.
geoff
If ever there was a race where Max could have demonstrated that he was
taking a more mature approach to the race, it was this one. Opportunity
lost.
Alan Baker
2018-04-29 23:58:01 UTC
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Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
It was pretty close to that yeah.

I'd need to see the telemetry to see if his move back to the left was in
the braking zone or not. If it wasn't, it was perilously close to the line.
Post by larkim
Unlucky Bottas!
And not great work by the crew supposed to be cleaning the track...
Post by larkim
Great restart.
Lucky Hamilton.
Mark Jackson
2018-04-30 00:00:41 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
It was pretty close to that yeah.
I'd need to see the telemetry to see if his move back to the left was
in the braking zone or not. If it wasn't, it was perilously close to
the line.
Stewards reprimanded both drivers.

"Both drivers contributed to the collision," said the statement. "The
driver of car 33 [Verstappen] made two moves, both of which were
relatively minor.

"The driver of car 3 [Ricciardo] admitted he left his move to overtake
on the left, too late.

"It was obvious to the stewards that although the incident had its
origins in the moves by car 33, the driver of car 3 also contributed to
the incident.

"Both drivers expressed regret about their respective contributions to
the incident, during the stewards' hearing."
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
This quote is often falsely attributed to Mark Twain.
- Randall Munroe
~misfit~
2018-04-30 04:21:37 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Alan Baker
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
It was pretty close to that yeah.
I'd need to see the telemetry to see if his move back to the left was
in the braking zone or not. If it wasn't, it was perilously close to
the line.
Stewards reprimanded both drivers.
"Both drivers contributed to the collision," said the statement. "The
driver of car 33 [Verstappen] made two moves, both of which were
relatively minor.
"The driver of car 3 [Ricciardo] admitted he left his move to overtake
on the left, too late.
"It was obvious to the stewards that although the incident had its
origins in the moves by car 33, the driver of car 3 also contributed
to the incident.
"Both drivers expressed regret about their respective contributions to
the incident, during the stewards' hearing."
It's a sad day when a hard racer has to apologise after an accident with a
driver who broke the 'single move only in the braking zone' rule. Or are
they changing the "Verstappen rule" that they dropped in March last year
after criticism? Or perhaps because RBR aren't asking for prosecution on
Daniels behalf Max gets away with it (again!)?

Either way it sets a bad precedent for F1 IMO.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
larkim
2018-04-30 06:18:44 UTC
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On the Bottas tyre - the debris he got was at or around the or entrance area wasn't it? So unrelated to the rbr crash etc, and presumably there either for a large part of the race, or came about due to some contact at the restart?
Alan Baker
2018-04-30 16:51:56 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Alan Baker
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
It was pretty close to that yeah.
I'd need to see the telemetry to see if his move back to the left was
in the braking zone or not. If it wasn't, it was perilously close to
the line.
Stewards reprimanded both drivers.
"Both drivers contributed to the collision," said the statement. "The
driver of car 33 [Verstappen] made two moves, both of which were
relatively minor.
"The driver of car 3 [Ricciardo] admitted he left his move to overtake
on the left, too late.
"It was obvious to the stewards that although the incident had its
origins in the moves by car 33, the driver of car 3 also contributed to
the incident.
"Both drivers expressed regret about their respective contributions to
the incident, during the stewards' hearing."
Seems about right...
News
2018-04-30 17:53:03 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Alan Baker
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
It was pretty close to that yeah.
I'd need to see the telemetry to see if his move back to the left was
in the braking zone or not. If it wasn't, it was perilously close to
the line.
Stewards reprimanded both drivers.
"Both drivers contributed to the collision," said the statement. "The
driver of car 33 [Verstappen] made two moves, both of which were
relatively minor.
"The driver of car 3 [Ricciardo] admitted he left his move to overtake
on the left, too late.
"It was obvious to the stewards that although the incident had its
origins in the moves by car 33, the driver of car 3 also contributed to
the incident.
"Both drivers expressed regret about their respective contributions to
the incident, during the stewards' hearing."
Seems about right...
Must have been one hell of a team meeting/de-brief...
Alan Baker
2018-04-30 18:17:43 UTC
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Post by News
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Alan Baker
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
It was pretty close to that yeah.
I'd need to see the telemetry to see if his move back to the left was
in the braking zone or not. If it wasn't, it was perilously close to
the line.
Stewards reprimanded both drivers.
"Both drivers contributed to the collision," said the statement. "The
driver of car 33 [Verstappen] made two moves, both of which were
relatively minor.
"The driver of car 3 [Ricciardo] admitted he left his move to overtake
on the left, too late.
"It was obvious to the stewards that although the incident had its
origins in the moves by car 33, the driver of car 3 also contributed to
the incident.
"Both drivers expressed regret about their respective contributions to
the incident, during the stewards' hearing."
Seems about right...
Must have been one hell of a team meeting/de-brief...
I'm sure the team's management/ownership was pissed, but whether either
driver was very upset, I just don't know their personalities well enough
to say.
Bruce Hoult
2018-05-01 01:29:38 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by News
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Alan Baker
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
It was pretty close to that yeah.
I'd need to see the telemetry to see if his move back to the left was
in the braking zone or not. If it wasn't, it was perilously close to
the line.
Stewards reprimanded both drivers.
"Both drivers contributed to the collision," said the statement. "The
driver of car 33 [Verstappen] made two moves, both of which were
relatively minor.
"The driver of car 3 [Ricciardo] admitted he left his move to overtake
on the left, too late.
"It was obvious to the stewards that although the incident had its
origins in the moves by car 33, the driver of car 3 also contributed to
the incident.
"Both drivers expressed regret about their respective contributions to
the incident, during the stewards' hearing."
Seems about right...
Must have been one hell of a team meeting/de-brief...
I'm sure the team's management/ownership was pissed, but whether either
driver was very upset, I just don't know their personalities well enough
to say.
I don't think RB management is too upset, in reality. Of course they have to make a bit of a show about it to try to get the drivers to minimise results like this. The last time two RB drivers took each other out was Turkey in May 2010. That's eight years and 160-odd races ago.

It's not as if it's likely to affect the WCC results. They don't have much hope of beating either Merc or Ferrari this season, no matter what they do, and at the same time they are not under any real pressure from McLaren or Renault. Red Bull have had both drivers DNF in two our of four races so far this season and they still have 50% more points than those two teams. Sure, another 27 points would have put them at more than double the McLaren or Renault totals, but it would still have left them well behind Mercedes and Ferrari.
Martin Harran
2018-05-01 07:14:54 UTC
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Post by News
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Alan Baker
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
It was pretty close to that yeah.
I'd need to see the telemetry to see if his move back to the left was
in the braking zone or not. If it wasn't, it was perilously close to
the line.
Stewards reprimanded both drivers.
"Both drivers contributed to the collision," said the statement. "The
driver of car 33 [Verstappen] made two moves, both of which were
relatively minor.
"The driver of car 3 [Ricciardo] admitted he left his move to overtake
on the left, too late.
"It was obvious to the stewards that although the incident had its
origins in the moves by car 33, the driver of car 3 also contributed to
the incident.
"Both drivers expressed regret about their respective contributions to
the incident, during the stewards' hearing."
Seems about right...
Must have been one hell of a team meeting/de-brief...
RBR are well used to this sort of thing, think Vettel and Webber.
John
2018-04-30 18:45:19 UTC
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What happened with the DRS system? They said it wasn't working on part of the track.
~misfit~
2018-04-30 23:26:01 UTC
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Post by John
What happened with the DRS system? They said it wasn't working on part of the track.
The automatic system that gave the drivers a beep in the ear and allowed
them to open the slot was down on the back straight for most of the race. So
they had to rely on their teams watching the sector gaps and telling them if
they could use DRS.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
larkim
2018-05-02 13:23:21 UTC
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Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
Unlucky Bottas!
Great restart.
Lucky Hamilton.
Good article on Alonso's race. I'd completely forgotten about his
drive down the pitlane bouncing off the side.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43973625
Edmund
2018-05-02 13:45:13 UTC
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Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
Unlucky Bottas! Great restart. Lucky Hamilton.
Good article on Alonso's race. I'd completely forgotten about his drive
down the pitlane bouncing off the side.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43973625
It seems it doesn't matter what they "change" on the McLaren
chassis, it can't be much worse then it is.
It remembers me of a time where Massa set his fastest
lap time ( or top speed ) after he damaged his multi million
dollar front wing. :-)

Edmund
larkim
2018-05-02 14:21:56 UTC
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Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
Unlucky Bottas! Great restart. Lucky Hamilton.
Good article on Alonso's race. I'd completely forgotten about his drive
down the pitlane bouncing off the side.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43973625
It seems it doesn't matter what they "change" on the McLaren
chassis, it can't be much worse then it is.
It remembers me of a time where Massa set his fastest
lap time ( or top speed ) after he damaged his multi million
dollar front wing. :-)
Edmund
TBH, that seems a truism across nearly all F1 cars. The amount of times
cars run with quite obvious damage and yet appear to be performing at
practically the same level as before you'd think they are wasting their
money on CFD and clever carbon wings etc.
Edmund
2018-05-02 15:26:57 UTC
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Post by larkim
Post by larkim
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
Unlucky Bottas! Great restart. Lucky Hamilton.
Good article on Alonso's race. I'd completely forgotten about his
drive down the pitlane bouncing off the side.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43973625
It seems it doesn't matter what they "change" on the McLaren chassis,
it can't be much worse then it is.
It remembers me of a time where Massa set his fastest lap time ( or top
speed ) after he damaged his multi million dollar front wing. :-)
Edmund
TBH, that seems a truism across nearly all F1 cars. The amount of times
cars run with quite obvious damage and yet appear to be performing at
practically the same level as before you'd think they are wasting their
money on CFD and clever carbon wings etc.
In that particular case of Massa a Ferrari technician joked :
-Now we know what to do with the aero-

Edmund
Edmund
2018-05-02 15:26:26 UTC
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Post by larkim
Post by larkim
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
Unlucky Bottas! Great restart. Lucky Hamilton.
Good article on Alonso's race. I'd completely forgotten about his
drive down the pitlane bouncing off the side.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43973625
It seems it doesn't matter what they "change" on the McLaren chassis,
it can't be much worse then it is.
It remembers me of a time where Massa set his fastest lap time ( or top
speed ) after he damaged his multi million dollar front wing. :-)
Edmund
TBH, that seems a truism across nearly all F1 cars. The amount of times
cars run with quite obvious damage and yet appear to be performing at
practically the same level as before you'd think they are wasting their
money on CFD and clever carbon wings etc.
In that particular case of Massa a Ferrari technician joked :
-Now we know what to do with the aero-

Edmund
Edmund
2018-05-02 15:27:27 UTC
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Post by larkim
Post by larkim
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
Unlucky Bottas! Great restart. Lucky Hamilton.
Good article on Alonso's race. I'd completely forgotten about his
drive down the pitlane bouncing off the side.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43973625
It seems it doesn't matter what they "change" on the McLaren chassis,
it can't be much worse then it is.
It remembers me of a time where Massa set his fastest lap time ( or top
speed ) after he damaged his multi million dollar front wing. :-)
Edmund
TBH, that seems a truism across nearly all F1 cars. The amount of times
cars run with quite obvious damage and yet appear to be performing at
practically the same level as before you'd think they are wasting their
money on CFD and clever carbon wings etc.
In that particular case of Massa a Ferrari technician joked :
-Now we know what to do with the aero-

Edmund

Brian W Lawrence
2018-05-02 14:58:23 UTC
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Post by Edmund
Post by larkim
Max moved twice?
Unlucky Bottas! Great restart. Lucky Hamilton.
Good article on Alonso's race. I'd completely forgotten about his drive
down the pitlane bouncing off the side.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43973625
It seems it doesn't matter what they "change" on the McLaren
chassis, it can't be much worse then it is.
It remembers me of a time where Massa set his fastest
lap time ( or top speed ) after he damaged his multi million
dollar front wing. :-)
Most cars are able to lap faster later in the race than they did in
the early stages. Massa might have been faster still with a fully
functional front wing.
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