Discussion:
Extract from Adrian Newey's book ....
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Brian W Lawrence
2017-11-10 08:03:39 UTC
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Was in yesterdays (Wed 9 Nov) Daily Telegraph - it doesn't seem to be
free access, so here's a link to the Amazon (Kindle) free sample:


<https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Build-Car-Autobiography-Greatest/dp/000819680X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510297234&sr=1-1&keywords=adrian+newey&dpID=51jB7byEOlL&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch>

The DT headline was "I still feel guilty about the death of Ayrton Senna".

And another quote, "I designed a car that was aerodynamically unstable.
By Imola, I understood the problem. I just needed time to give Ayrton a
car that was worthy of him. Time denied us all that chhance."
bra
2017-11-11 17:28:39 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
The DT headline was "I still feel guilty about the death of Ayrton Senna".
And another quote, "I designed a car that was aerodynamically unstable.
By Imola, I understood the problem. I just needed time to give Ayrton a
car that was worthy of him. Time denied us all that chhance."
Could have would have should have --- time constraints in all engineering projects. The engineering narrative behind the 1986 Challenger shuttle disaster never fails to engage me. I heard Roger Boisjoly speak to the IEEE about his NASA work, about management / marketing / engineering conflicts in the launch decision, and subsequently about the hurried "fixes" on later engines.

I think Whitehead (?) rewrote a cliché to warn engineers that "Urgent necessity is more often the mother of the quick fix, than it is the mother of invention."
Mark Jackson
2017-11-11 17:33:09 UTC
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Post by bra
The engineering narrative behind the 1986 Challenger shuttle disaster
never fails to engage me.
You might enjoy reading /Deepwater Horizon: A Systems Analysis of the
Macondo Disaster/ by Bobert and Blossom.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Making people laugh is the lowest form of comedy.
- Michael O'Donoghue
Brian W Lawrence
2017-11-12 10:08:33 UTC
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Post by bra
The DT headline was "I still feel guilty about the death of Ayrton Senna"..
And another quote, "I designed a car that was aerodynamically unstable.
By Imola, I understood the problem. I just needed time to give Ayrton a
car that was worthy of him. Time denied us all that chhance."
Could have would have should have --- time constraints in all engineering projects. The engineering narrative behind the 1986 Challenger shuttle disaster never fails to engage me. I heard Roger Boisjoly speak to the IEEE about his NASA work, about management / marketing / engineering conflicts in the launch decision, and subsequently about the hurried "fixes" on later engines.
I think Whitehead (?) rewrote a cliché to warn engineers that "Urgent necessity is more often the mother of the quick fix, than it is the mother of invention."
Just a nitpick/clarification - the late Roger Boisjoly did not work for
NASA directly, in 1986 he was working for Morton Thiokol the lead
contractor for the Solid Rocket Boosters (SRB). His memo warning about
the effect of very low temperatures on the O-rings was internal within
Thiokol.

I hadn't realised he passed away in 2012 - most of the articles
reporting his death contain this, "had worked for companies in
California on lunar module life-support systems and the moon vehicle."

LM ELS was built by Hamilton Standard, who also provided the spacesuits.
I'm now wondering what 'the moon vehicle' meant, since the LM was the
moon vehicle. I'll have to dig out the NASA reports now :-)
bra
2017-11-12 19:15:41 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
Just a nitpick/clarification - the late Roger Boisjoly did not work for
NASA directly, in 1986 he was working for Morton Thiokol the lead
contractor for the Solid Rocket Boosters (SRB). His memo warning about
the effect of very low temperatures on the O-rings was internal within
Thiokol.
Yes, you're right.
He described the joint meetings with NASA and Thiokol staff --- and the enormous pressure to "fly without fear". Boisjoly told the IEEE audience that after 10 seconds and successful lift-off, he turned to a colleague and said with relief "I think we dodged a bullet ---."

Boisjoly was laid-off by Thiokol shortly after he phoned the presidential commission and handed over his paperwork. He never worked in aerospace again. One of the addressees of his famous memo, a higher-up, was promoted to VP not long after. BTW, that memo was dated SIX MONTHS before the fatal launch.
D Munz
2017-11-13 13:11:42 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
LM ELS was built by Hamilton Standard, who also provided the spacesuits.
I'm now wondering what 'the moon vehicle' meant, since the LM was the
moon vehicle. I'll have to dig out the NASA reports now :-)
I think the LM was the lander and the "moon vehicle" was the Lunar Rover.

The Moon-Dune Buggy!

FWIW
DLM
Bruce Hoult
2017-11-13 13:43:40 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
Post by bra
The DT headline was "I still feel guilty about the death of Ayrton Senna"..
And another quote, "I designed a car that was aerodynamically unstable.
By Imola, I understood the problem. I just needed time to give Ayrton a
car that was worthy of him. Time denied us all that chhance."
Could have would have should have --- time constraints in all engineering projects. The engineering narrative behind the 1986 Challenger shuttle disaster never fails to engage me. I heard Roger Boisjoly speak to the IEEE about his NASA work, about management / marketing / engineering conflicts in the launch decision, and subsequently about the hurried "fixes" on later engines.
I think Whitehead (?) rewrote a cliché to warn engineers that "Urgent necessity is more often the mother of the quick fix, than it is the mother of invention."
Just a nitpick/clarification - the late Roger Boisjoly did not work for
NASA directly, in 1986 he was working for Morton Thiokol the lead
contractor for the Solid Rocket Boosters (SRB). His memo warning about
the effect of very low temperatures on the O-rings was internal within
Thiokol.
I hadn't realised he passed away in 2012 - most of the articles
reporting his death contain this, "had worked for companies in
California on lunar module life-support systems and the moon vehicle."
LM ELS was built by Hamilton Standard, who also provided the spacesuits.
I'm now wondering what 'the moon vehicle' meant, since the LM was the
moon vehicle. I'll have to dig out the NASA reports now :-)
The wheels, motors, and suspension for the Lunar Roving Vehicle were built by General Motors in Santa Barbara. Electronic and navigation were my Boeing in Seattle, and assembly by Boeing in Huntsville.

General Motors also did the inertial guidance systems for the spacecraft, but I can't immediately discover who did the LEM life support systems.
Brian W Lawrence
2017-11-13 14:55:23 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by Brian W Lawrence
Post by bra
The DT headline was "I still feel guilty about the death of Ayrton Senna"..
And another quote, "I designed a car that was aerodynamically unstable..
By Imola, I understood the problem. I just needed time to give Ayrton a
car that was worthy of him. Time denied us all that chhance."
Could have would have should have --- time constraints in all engineering projects. The engineering narrative behind the 1986 Challenger shuttle disaster never fails to engage me. I heard Roger Boisjoly speak to the IEEE about his NASA work, about management / marketing / engineering conflicts in the launch decision, and subsequently about the hurried "fixes" on later engines.
I think Whitehead (?) rewrote a cliché to warn engineers that "Urgent necessity is more often the mother of the quick fix, than it is the mother of invention."
Just a nitpick/clarification - the late Roger Boisjoly did not work for
NASA directly, in 1986 he was working for Morton Thiokol the lead
contractor for the Solid Rocket Boosters (SRB). His memo warning about
the effect of very low temperatures on the O-rings was internal within
Thiokol.
I hadn't realised he passed away in 2012 - most of the articles
reporting his death contain this, "had worked for companies in
California on lunar module life-support systems and the moon vehicle."
LM ELS was built by Hamilton Standard, who also provided the spacesuits.
I'm now wondering what 'the moon vehicle' meant, since the LM was the
moon vehicle. I'll have to dig out the NASA reports now :-)
The wheels, motors, and suspension for the Lunar Roving Vehicle were built by General Motors in Santa Barbara. Electronic and navigation were my Boeing in Seattle, and assembly by Boeing in Huntsville.
General Motors also did the inertial guidance systems for the spacecraft, but I can't immediately discover who did the LEM life support systems.
I did sort of mention it above, although I should have typed ECS not ELS
(Environmental Control System). It was Hamilton Standard (now Hamilton
Sundstrand), more specifically the Hamilton Standard Division of United
Aircraft Corporation.

Major LM Contractors listed here:

<https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/LM21_Contractors_CO1-4.pdf>

Part of the LM News Reference, I have a paperback copy of that & the CSM
version, I'll try and dig them out. You can access most of both here:

<https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/LMNewsRef-Boothman.html>

Or almost everything you might want here:

<https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/main.html>
a***@thenovelsliderule.com
2018-02-07 18:18:08 UTC
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So, here is the background of Roger Boisjoly’s employment to the extent that I know it.

I worked for Hamilton Standard in Windsor Locks, Connecticut for twenty-one years, during which time I met Roger, although he worked in a different group in our department. I did not know him well, but I was aware of his leaving Hamilton to go to work for Thiokol. I spent my time back then working on the “backpack” as it was called. The official name on the drawings was the “Portable Life Support System.” A sizeable group of engineers like myself were involved, and I was lucky enough to be in charge of the design of the final version of the backpack, SV706100-7. The actual spacesuit had been developed at Hamilton, but was given to International Latex for the final design and production prior its use on the missions.

As I didn’t know Roger very well, I can’t say with authority what aspects of the Lunar Excursion Module Environmental Control System (LEM ECS) were his resonsibility. I can say that the Lunar Rover was not part of Hamilton Standard’s efforts.

I hope this clarifies the various reports of details.
m***@gmail.com
2017-11-12 08:46:20 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
Was in yesterdays (Wed 9 Nov) Daily Telegraph - it doesn't seem to be
free access,
One can get free access to one "premium" article per week. A facebook account will make that process a little easier.

The article is quite interesting, if a little bleak, as Newey unpacks how the Williams team analysed the crash.
Brian W Lawrence
2017-11-12 10:24:05 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Brian W Lawrence
Was in yesterdays (Wed 9 Nov) Daily Telegraph - it doesn't seem to be
free access,
One can get free access to one "premium" article per week. A facebook account will make that process a little easier.
The article is quite interesting, if a little bleak, as Newey unpacks how the Williams team analysed the crash.
Well worth a read - I read the paper version :-)
a***@thenovelsliderule.com
2018-02-07 19:02:07 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
Was in yesterdays (Wed 9 Nov) Daily Telegraph - it doesn't seem to be
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Build-Car-Autobiography-Greatest/dp/000819680X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510297234&sr=1-1&keywords=adrian+newey&dpID=51jB7byEOlL&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch>
The DT headline was "I still feel guilty about the death of Ayrton Senna".
And another quote, "I designed a car that was aerodynamically unstable.
By Imola, I understood the problem. I just needed time to give Ayrton a
car that was worthy of him. Time denied us all that chhance."
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