Discussion:
That pass
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Bob Helland
2003-07-01 00:14:00 UTC
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Well I would suggest that even with MS drifting wide, JPM could have
made the corner, taken second place and avoided contact. Do you
disagree?
Put Villeneuve in MS's place - then what would your reaction have been?
I'm betting *very* different.
My reaction would be: 'Juan Pinball is a freaking idiot!'


But you already knew that...


-Bob
CatharticF1
2003-07-01 00:15:24 UTC
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Well I would suggest that even with MS drifting wide, JPM could have
made the corner, taken second place and avoided contact. Do you
disagree?
Put Villeneuve in MS's place - then what would your reaction have been?
I'm betting *very* different.
Actually no.. but it isn't a big deal. As I said in the original post,
Ric - 'none of the camera angles seem quite decisive to me'.

I'm actually a little surprised at the amount of attention it got.
--
CatharticF1

"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
Bob Helland
2003-07-01 00:28:18 UTC
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Post by CatharticF1
I'm actually a little surprised at the amount of attention it got.
It's a recurring problem. JPM causes accidents. That's why it's a bigger
deal.


-Bob
CatharticF1
2003-07-01 00:55:24 UTC
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In article <***@comcast.com>, ***@comcast.net
says...
Post by Bob Helland
Post by CatharticF1
I'm actually a little surprised at the amount of attention it got.
It's a recurring problem. JPM causes accidents. That's why it's a bigger
deal.
Hey Bob - what was that thing in the Saturday press conference with Schu
you mentioned Tifosis noticing? I never saw the conference ..
--
CatharticF1

"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
Gary Sanford
2003-07-01 01:09:25 UTC
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Well, i'm not a 100% on it, but i thought it went like this.
As JPM went aside they were both on the power, Juan made up a few more
feet edging a wee bit in front while closing in for the squeeze. At
some time MS had realized that he was out of luck and would need to
back off, so he braked. All too late as he slotted in just behind
JPM's front wheel, which touched his spoiler ripping the side winglet
off. That touch probably made MS reflexively brake more and correct
towards Juan a tad, making another contact with the side pod, which
with the speed difference by then could have had that spin effect.
Anyway, unless there are better and undisputable footage of it
somewhere this'll go on forever and i for one don't intend to pursue
it that much. And i've noticed, neither are you. You feeling ok ? :-)
I think the Alonso incident is a much more controversial one than two
known block heads bashing wheels.
Look at the video from isnide the corner (ground level) youy can clearly
see that MS starts the corner "glued" to the inside curb (normal) and that
just before impect he goes "outside" to about 1m of the curb, so from this
1 He saw JPM and tried to "push him out" either physically (Villeneuve 97)
or psychologically (Raikkonen Magny cours 2002)
2 He had understeer at the bad moment
Personnaly i doubt the 2nd point but the only way to know the truth would
be to have a look at this telemetry, check the steering angle for point 1
and the lateral G sensor for point 2
Based on the point that they didn't scream like hell (Ferrari) about
'dangerous driving' or 'unfair'... I assume MS did try point 1, it didn't
work, he knows it, but he's still happy to have extended his lead in the
championship since KR made a fool of Mercedes in germany (ha ha ha)
I think he had understeer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Sanford
***@attglobal.net
Gary Sanford
2003-07-01 01:23:15 UTC
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Post by CatharticF1
says...
OK, here's my take on it.
Why not just get "it's the tyres" coded into a function key, it'll
save you a lot of typing? ;o)
Just put them all on Michelins - please!!
Last year would have been more interesting with everyone all on
Michelins given Bridgestone's domination. Don't worry they'll even
out soon.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Sanford
***@attglobal.net
Gary Sanford
2003-07-01 01:49:15 UTC
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OK, here's my take on it.
MS was plainly in tyre hell. JPM alluded to it after the race - very
slow in corners, fine on the straights. Franks Williams comment also
seems to back that up (I like Frank, and Patrick Head actually).
Other suff snipped!
I don't like Schumacher but the Bridgestone tires in the dry are crap
now. Total junk. Ferrari get the best Bridgestones. Jordan and
Minardi Bridgestones are even worse. Junk like the Mercedes-Ilmor.
It's engineering wars... something that makes F1 great. Just like the
drivers competition, there is another one between the technical
staffs.This one is just as relevant and just as hard fought. Seemingly
solid advantages don't last forever and this extra variable helps
separate F1 from spec series like the *cough* IRL where dumbing down
is a rule.

As for the above post. 1. I like MS just fine, his record speaks
itself, a great champion. 2. This years Bridgestones are better than
last years all conquering rubber, but I think that they were caught
napping by Michelins improvement. Ferrari have to prove they are up to
being on the short end of a tire war unlike last year. If they win it
will be a greater achievement, so don't bitch about it yet, Tifosi.
As far as Mercedes-Ilmor, Kimi may still be DWC.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Sanford
***@attglobal.net
CatharticF1
2003-07-01 02:04:25 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>, sanford1
@sprynet.com says...
Post by Gary Sanford
OK, here's my take on it.
MS was plainly in tyre hell. JPM alluded to it after the race - very
slow in corners, fine on the straights. Franks Williams comment also
seems to back that up (I like Frank, and Patrick Head actually).
Other suff snipped!
I don't like Schumacher but the Bridgestone tires in the dry are crap
now. Total junk. Ferrari get the best Bridgestones. Jordan and
Minardi Bridgestones are even worse. Junk like the Mercedes-Ilmor.
It's engineering wars... something that makes F1 great. Just like the
drivers competition, there is another one between the technical
staffs.This one is just as relevant and just as hard fought. Seemingly
solid advantages don't last forever and this extra variable helps
separate F1 from spec series like the *cough* IRL where dumbing down
is a rule.
As for the above post. 1. I like MS just fine, his record speaks
itself, a great champion. 2. This years Bridgestones are better than
last years all conquering rubber, but I think that they were caught
napping by Michelins improvement. Ferrari have to prove they are up to
being on the short end of a tire war unlike last year. If they win it
will be a greater achievement, so don't bitch about it yet, Tifosi.
As far as Mercedes-Ilmor, Kimi may still be DWC.
I'm curious to find out why you think Bridgestone - as opposed to
Ferrari - were dominant last year.
--
CatharticF1

"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
Gary Sanford
2003-07-01 02:58:31 UTC
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Post by CatharticF1
@sprynet.com says...
Post by Gary Sanford
OK, here's my take on it.
MS was plainly in tyre hell. JPM alluded to it after the race - very
slow in corners, fine on the straights. Franks Williams comment also
seems to back that up (I like Frank, and Patrick Head actually).
Other suff snipped!
I don't like Schumacher but the Bridgestone tires in the dry are crap
now. Total junk. Ferrari get the best Bridgestones. Jordan and
Minardi Bridgestones are even worse. Junk like the Mercedes-Ilmor.
It's engineering wars... something that makes F1 great. Just like the
drivers competition, there is another one between the technical
staffs.This one is just as relevant and just as hard fought. Seemingly
solid advantages don't last forever and this extra variable helps
separate F1 from spec series like the *cough* IRL where dumbing down
is a rule.
As for the above post. 1. I like MS just fine, his record speaks
itself, a great champion. 2. This years Bridgestones are better than
last years all conquering rubber, but I think that they were caught
napping by Michelins improvement. Ferrari have to prove they are up to
being on the short end of a tire war unlike last year. If they win it
will be a greater achievement, so don't bitch about it yet, Tifosi.
As far as Mercedes-Ilmor, Kimi may still be DWC.
I'm curious to find out why you think Bridgestone - as opposed to
Ferrari - were dominant last year.
Do you remember how the Michelins had so many "off" laps in the middle
of their stints and also their preference for hot track surfaces vs
there dismal performance in the cold. It was a learning year and they
seem to have done the work. Ferrari did have the dominant car last
year and won regardless of the tires, IMO. This year is different.
The rise of the Williams and the competitiveness of *last years*
McLaren vs the 2003GA is probably due to tires. Michelin's been
working while Bridgestone coasted. Bridgestone has their wake up call
and if they don't close the gap by the British GP, then they're really
in trouble.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Sanford
***@attglobal.net
Treebeard
2003-07-01 05:03:08 UTC
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<snip>
You're misrepresenting what you said - re-read above David, where you
said Schu reckoned he was left enough room. Your comment was quite
deliberately selective, it *is* curious that.
You misrepresent (or deliberately misunderstand) what I'm saying. I
don't misrepresent what I say myself - how can I?! That's tortuous
even for you. Schumacher was OK with the pass. You're not. I find that
not at all curious nor surprising...
I'm OK with it. Read the original post, the only point I made was that
he squeezed him a little more than was necessary - which to paraphrase
says that a little more room would have been better. No difference..
As always, we'll agree to disagree. Your opinion is that JPM squeezed
Michael "a little more than necessary", mine is that he didn't, he
allowed him just enough room. Schumacher saying that he'd have liked a
little more room doesn't make it so. Obviously, he'd have liked more
room - he'd have preferred JPM not to have been there at all. The one
does not equate to the other, except in your mind, Brendan...
Oh - and nice try with the
'class' shot, I've taken no shot at JPM - something you in return have
always been completely incapable of wrt Schu.
You've said you didn't think he left enough room - that's a shot.
Now you're getting desperate...!
Look who's talking...
<snip>
It isn't necessary to squeeze so hard when with such extra pace it could
be done more cleanly, but JPM does have a special place in his heart for
Schu, doesn't he?
It was done cleanly. Schumacher said so. His fans, of course, can't
accept that, as usual...
Of course I never said it wasn't clean, I was at pains on *2* occasions
within the original post to say so too. Did you ever work as a
translator between Middle East diplomats?
I'd have thought that was obvious from my posts over the last 8
years...

David
CatharticF1
2003-07-01 05:39:19 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>,
***@hotmail.com says...

<snip>
Post by Treebeard
I'm OK with it. Read the original post, the only point I made was that
he squeezed him a little more than was necessary - which to paraphrase
says that a little more room would have been better. No difference..
As always, we'll agree to disagree. Your opinion is that JPM squeezed
Michael "a little more than necessary", mine is that he didn't, he
allowed him just enough room. Schumacher saying that he'd have liked a
little more room doesn't make it so. Obviously, he'd have liked more
room - he'd have preferred JPM not to have been there at all. The one
does not equate to the other, except in your mind, Brendan...
Isn't this the same thing (as Schu)? A little more room and no contact,
but same position change.

<snip>
--
CatharticF1

"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
Treebeard
2003-07-01 06:14:46 UTC
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<snip>
Post by Treebeard
I'm OK with it. Read the original post, the only point I made was that
he squeezed him a little more than was necessary - which to paraphrase
says that a little more room would have been better. No difference..
As always, we'll agree to disagree. Your opinion is that JPM squeezed
Michael "a little more than necessary", mine is that he didn't, he
allowed him just enough room. Schumacher saying that he'd have liked a
little more room doesn't make it so. Obviously, he'd have liked more
room - he'd have preferred JPM not to have been there at all. The one
does not equate to the other, except in your mind, Brendan...
Isn't this the same thing (as Schu)? A little more room and no contact,
but same position change.
<snip>
Like I said, let's agree to disagree, huh...?

David
ric zito
2003-07-01 07:59:33 UTC
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Post by Treebeard
Like I said, let's agree to disagree, huh...?
I thought I had!
AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa....
--
ric
Treebeard
2003-07-01 05:04:04 UTC
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It was done cleanly. Schumacher said so. His fans, of course, can't
accept that, as usual...
Of course I never said it wasn't clean, I was at pains on *2* occasions
within the original post to say so too. Did you ever work as a
translator between Middle East diplomats?
Please drop this, both of you. You're going round in pedantic circles.
That's Brendan's hobby. Sometimes we indulge him in it...
Brendan, stop wrapping Michael in cotton wool, FFS. He doesn't need it,
doesn't want it, and you're not doing his image any favours. Or yours,
for that matter. :)
Nothing new there then...

David
CatharticF1
2003-07-01 05:42:50 UTC
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It was done cleanly. Schumacher said so. His fans, of course, can't
accept that, as usual...
Of course I never said it wasn't clean, I was at pains on *2* occasions
within the original post to say so too. Did you ever work as a
translator between Middle East diplomats?
Please drop this, both of you. You're going round in pedantic circles.
Brendan, stop wrapping Michael in cotton wool, FFS. He doesn't need it,
doesn't want it, and you're not doing his image any favours. Or yours,
for that matter. :)
Seriously - where do you get that? Aside from Youngy and David trying to
exaggerate and twist what I'm saying, I think you're confusing your
opinion of what I *would* say with what I *did* say.

No wonder the Germans invaded you lot in 2 successive wars..

;-P
--
CatharticF1

"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
Dono Trepli
2003-07-01 06:22:54 UTC
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I do. It wasn't JPM who needed to avoid contact...
http://www.autosport.com/popups/article_print.asp?s=5&id=23649

Q: He was quite critical ? he said you used to have nice fights with Mika,
but this wasn't a particularly nice move from Juan Pablo?

"Well, as I said before I felt I wouldn't have done anything different on the
other side, and that sometimes happens. I would have been a little bit more
happy if he left me a little bit more space, but that's not his job, to make
me happy."
Wayne Stuart
2003-07-01 22:35:59 UTC
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Post by Dono Trepli
I do. It wasn't JPM who needed to avoid contact...
http://www.autosport.com/popups/article_print.asp?s=5&id=23649
Q: He was quite critical ? he said you used to have nice fights with Mika,
but this wasn't a particularly nice move from Juan Pablo?
"Well, as I said before I felt I wouldn't have done anything different on the
other side, and that sometimes happens. I would have been a little bit more
happy if he left me a little bit more space, but that's not his job, to make
me happy."
Would like to hear if he's changed his story having by now heard the
scathing attack from "Crybaby" Brawn. Will their opinions miraculously
now meet somewhere in the middle perhaps?
--
This message was brought to you by Wayne "Dark 1" Stuart

And this site is crap - Don't go here:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wssenterprises/
youngy
2003-07-01 07:55:23 UTC
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WTF, I'm talking about your claim and blame that JPM didn't leave him
enough room. JPM made it clear twice in the Press conference that he
left him enough room (NOT AS MUCH AS HE WANTED SURE BUT ENOUGH),
Martin Brundle agrees, Frank & Patrick agree and expressed surprise
that the stewards were looking at it and everyone else except you and
a few sychophants have to try and find some blame in his pass. Did MS
ever have a millimetre of his tyre, his wing off the track????? A big
NO. The reason for the contact was pure and simple MS refusing to
yield and if MS refuses to yield then it's his responsibility to be
capable of using the track left which was still much wider than his
car to negotiate the corner without hitting anyone. HE failed to do
so.
Look - let's start with 'Congratulations' btw.
Thanks, gratefully accepted. It's been a long while since I've felt so
eager to see Williams do well in races. 2002 was so disappointing
after the promise during 2001. :)
If you read the original post, I would have thought it not unreasonable.
But your observation here and later that MS could have yielded is
spurious. As soon as they hit the apex on that line, there was no way of
avoiding the Ferrari using more track than was offered.
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided, if he
had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him room for his car
and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they made
contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to pass,
gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have wished for a
little bit more space, but I have no problem with Juan Pablo over
this. No one was to blame."

Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car and
another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow he
didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but you know
what I mean.
Well, JPM again proved incapable of giving racing room at the exit. He
squeezed too hard, and he had the corner / pass anyway. So why do it?
You work it out.
I don't agree that he didn't give MS racing room at the exit. MS needs
to go listen to Kenny Rogers.
Well I would suggest that even with MS drifting wide, JPM could have
made the corner, taken second place and avoided contact. Do you
disagree?
Maybe who knows. Going even wider on the outside could've put JPM on
the marbles risking more to him. Besides, part of successful
overtaking is to keep the pressure on your opponent so they do have to
yield rather than keeping on fighting. It was something that JPM has
had to learn and it seems that the Schu hasn't learnt it yet either.
Which I don't mind as I like a fight on the track anyway.


Youngy
Montoya/Williams 2003 WDC
CatharticF1
2003-07-01 08:04:50 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>,
***@bigpond.com says...

<snip>
Post by youngy
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided, if he
had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him room for his car
and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they made
contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to pass,
gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have wished for a
little bit more space, but I have no problem with Juan Pablo over
this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car and
another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow he
didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but you know
what I mean.
I'm just saying that obviously it was marginal (as they made contact) so
that the 'and then some' was probably pushing it a little!

<snip>
--
CatharticF1

"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
youngy
2003-07-01 11:16:13 UTC
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<snip>
Post by youngy
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided, if he
had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him room for his car
and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they made
contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to pass,
gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have wished for a
little bit more space, but I have no problem with Juan Pablo over
this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car and
another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow he
didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but you know
what I mean.
I'm just saying that obviously it was marginal (as they made contact) so
that the 'and then some' was probably pushing it a little!
<snip>
Yeh, but your assuming that because of the contact it was marginal
room. There is another explanation. Schumi made a mistake. Have you
ever contemplated this?


Youngy
Montoya/Williams 2003 WDC
Treebeard
2003-07-01 11:21:26 UTC
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Post by youngy
<snip>
Post by youngy
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided, if he
had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him room for his car
and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they made
contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to pass,
gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have wished for a
little bit more space, but I have no problem with Juan Pablo over
this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car and
another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow he
didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but you know
what I mean.
I'm just saying that obviously it was marginal (as they made contact) so
that the 'and then some' was probably pushing it a little!
<snip>
Yeh, but your assuming that because of the contact it was marginal
room. There is another explanation. Schumi made a mistake. Have you
ever contemplated this?
Brendan: "Schumi made a mistake. Does not compute."

David
CatharticF1
2003-07-01 11:38:05 UTC
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Post by youngy
<snip>
Post by youngy
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided, if he
had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him room for his car
and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they made
contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to pass,
gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have wished for a
little bit more space, but I have no problem with Juan Pablo over
this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car and
another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow he
didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but you know
what I mean.
I'm just saying that obviously it was marginal (as they made contact) so
that the 'and then some' was probably pushing it a little!
<snip>
Yeh, but your assuming that because of the contact it was marginal
room. There is another explanation. Schumi made a mistake. Have you
ever contemplated this?
Well you can see roughtly what happened, drifting wide, contact and then
a spin. I'm not sure what else you mean?
--
CatharticF1

"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
youngy
2003-07-01 12:46:29 UTC
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Post by CatharticF1
Post by youngy
<snip>
Post by youngy
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided, if he
had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him room for his car
and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they made
contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to pass,
gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have wished for a
little bit more space, but I have no problem with Juan Pablo over
this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car and
another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow he
didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but you know
what I mean.
I'm just saying that obviously it was marginal (as they made contact) so
that the 'and then some' was probably pushing it a little!
<snip>
Yeh, but your assuming that because of the contact it was marginal
room. There is another explanation. Schumi made a mistake. Have you
ever contemplated this?
Well you can see roughtly what happened, drifting wide, contact and then
a spin. I'm not sure what else you mean?
Well then maybe I need to spell it out.

Either:

1) Schumi allowed his car to drift out wide misjudging to the point
where he caused contact to another car.

2) Schumi had no control over how far his car drifted wide, and
therefore made the error of carrying too much speed into that corner
in an attempt to defend himself from being overtaken.

Ergo ... Schumi mistake. Simple if your allegiance is not blind.


Youngy
Montoya/Williams 2003 WDC
Uncle Mike
2003-07-01 13:56:30 UTC
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Post by youngy
Post by CatharticF1
Post by youngy
<snip>
Post by youngy
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided, if he
had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him room for his car
and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they made
contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to pass,
gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have wished for a
little bit more space, but I have no problem with Juan Pablo over
this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car and
another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow he
didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but you know
what I mean.
I'm just saying that obviously it was marginal (as they made contact) so
that the 'and then some' was probably pushing it a little!
<snip>
Yeh, but your assuming that because of the contact it was marginal
room. There is another explanation. Schumi made a mistake. Have you
ever contemplated this?
Well you can see roughtly what happened, drifting wide, contact and then
a spin. I'm not sure what else you mean?
Well then maybe I need to spell it out.
1) Schumi allowed his car to drift out wide misjudging to the point
where he caused contact to another car.
2) Schumi had no control over how far his car drifted wide, and
therefore made the error of carrying too much speed into that corner
in an attempt to defend himself from being overtaken.
Ergo ... Schumi mistake. Simple if your allegiance is not blind.
Youngy
Montoya/Williams 2003 WDC
I'm thinking 2) - in almost all passes when there is
contact, both car usually spin off. In fact, it's usually the car
on the outside that gets turfed off, it was most unusual that
MS was spun off. But then in the past we've seen him
make mistakes when he's back in the pack and not
up front - he seems to have forgotten how to handle
the stresses of cars all around him. MS fans will
say otherwise.

MH
"alot is not a word"
CatharticF1
2003-07-01 23:12:25 UTC
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Post by youngy
Post by CatharticF1
Post by youngy
<snip>
Post by youngy
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided, if he
had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him room for his car
and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they made
contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to pass,
gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have wished for a
little bit more space, but I have no problem with Juan Pablo over
this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car and
another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow he
didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but you know
what I mean.
I'm just saying that obviously it was marginal (as they made contact) so
that the 'and then some' was probably pushing it a little!
<snip>
Yeh, but your assuming that because of the contact it was marginal
room. There is another explanation. Schumi made a mistake. Have you
ever contemplated this?
Well you can see roughtly what happened, drifting wide, contact and then
a spin. I'm not sure what else you mean?
Well then maybe I need to spell it out.
1) Schumi allowed his car to drift out wide misjudging to the point
where he caused contact to another car.
2) Schumi had no control over how far his car drifted wide, and
therefore made the error of carrying too much speed into that corner
in an attempt to defend himself from being overtaken.
Ergo ... Schumi mistake. Simple if your allegiance is not blind.
I certainly think that 2 is likely the case, but a little more room
might have avoided the contact.
--
CatharticF1

"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
Erik
2018-05-02 00:41:59 UTC
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Post by CatharticF1
Post by youngy
<snip>
Post by youngy
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided,
if he had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him
room for his car and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they
made contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to
pass, gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have
wished for a little bit more space, but I have no problem with
Juan Pablo over this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car
and another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow
he didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but
you know what I mean.
I'm just saying that obviously it was marginal (as they made
contact) so that the 'and then some' was probably pushing it a
little!
<snip>
Yeh, but your assuming that because of the contact it was marginal
room. There is another explanation. Schumi made a mistake. Have you
ever contemplated this?
Well you can see roughtly what happened, drifting wide, contact and
then a spin. I'm not sure what else you mean?
Whatever happened to that miserable Ferrari fan CatharticF1?
~misfit~
2018-05-02 04:05:03 UTC
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Post by Erik
Post by CatharticF1
Post by youngy
<snip>
Post by youngy
If JPM didn't have a go at overtaking it would've been avoided,
if he had've yielded it would've been avoided. JPM gave him
room for his car and then some.
Again you know that it untrue 'and then some'? - given that they
made contact, that is unjustified.
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to
pass, gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have
wished for a little bit more space, but I have no problem with
Juan Pablo over this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue. He had at least his car
and another metre or so. He had enough room to survive yet somehow
he didn't. Well he did thru sheer luck of where he ended up but
you know what I mean.
I'm just saying that obviously it was marginal (as they made
contact) so that the 'and then some' was probably pushing it a
little!
<snip>
Yeh, but your assuming that because of the contact it was marginal
room. There is another explanation. Schumi made a mistake. Have you
ever contemplated this?
Well you can see roughtly what happened, drifting wide, contact and
then a spin. I'm not sure what else you mean?
Whatever happened to that miserable Ferrari fan CatharticF1?
Why are you using a 15 year old thread to try to bait a troll?
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2018-05-02 04:32:33 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Why are you using a 15 year old thread to try to bait a troll?
Here comes the resident moderator.
Like clockwork.
t***@gmail.com
2018-05-02 04:43:26 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Why are you using a 15 year old thread to try to bait a troll?
Why is that consuming your pathetic existence?
t***@gmail.com
2018-05-02 04:45:48 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Why are you using a 15 year old thread to try to bait a troll?
Why are you pirating Sky F1 TV coverage?
t***@gmail.com
2018-05-02 04:48:04 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Why are you using a 15 year old thread to try to bait a troll?
Why are you a know-it-all,
living on government hand-outs?

David G Fisher
2003-07-01 18:33:06 UTC
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Post by youngy
"As for the collision with Juan Pablo, in my opinion it was a
straightforward racing incident. He was faster than me, tried to pass,
gave me just enough room to survive. Maybe I could have wished for a
little bit more space, but I have no problem with Juan Pablo over
this. No one was to blame."
Schumi's comments, so how is it untrue.
You didn't trust MS's and DC's (and others) comments in the past when JPM
wrecked someone, but now you do because you think they benefit you?

Very selective.

MS is being a gentleman now, but he's just a sick of this shit as everyone
else. Ask Brawn.

David Micahel Ralf Schumacher Fisher
Kasper Kowalski
2003-07-02 09:23:10 UTC
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Post by David G Fisher
MS is being a gentleman now, but he's just a sick of this shit as everyone
else. Ask Brawn.
How can Brawn dare comment on classy driver, when the most unclassy driver
seen in F1 in recent years is his no.1???

KK
Fritz
2003-07-02 15:10:36 UTC
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Post by Kasper Kowalski
Post by David G Fisher
MS is being a gentleman now, but he's just a sick of this shit as everyone
else. Ask Brawn.
How can Brawn dare comment on classy driver, when the most unclassy driver
seen in F1 in recent years is his no.1???
Umm... it could be because he's a hypocritical asshole

who looks like he just crawled out of a god-damn garbage dumpster.
--
Fritz
Wayne Stuart
2003-07-01 22:35:59 UTC
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Post by Bob Helland
Well I would suggest that even with MS drifting wide, JPM could have
made the corner, taken second place and avoided contact. Do you
disagree?
Put Villeneuve in MS's place - then what would your reaction have been?
I'm betting *very* different.
My reaction would be: 'Juan Pinball is a freaking idiot!'
But you already knew that...
I doubt you'd have even commented. Not worthy of your time and effort
with a red car not being involved.
--
This message was brought to you by Wayne "Dark 1" Stuart

And this site is crap - Don't go here:
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