Discussion:
Hamilton and #takeaknee
(too old to reply)
m***@gmail.com
2017-09-30 04:14:59 UTC
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Good on him!
Bigbird
2017-09-30 06:15:53 UTC
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***@gmail.com wrote:
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get involved in
important discussions. Many people in their bubbles would know nothing
of some important matters if they did not.

However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the field of
play.

Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing them
and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a public platform.
Alan Baker
2017-09-30 07:26:00 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get involved in
important discussions. Many people in their bubbles would know nothing
of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the field of
play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing them
and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little uncomfortable,
then why are you bothering to protest at all?
Bigbird
2017-09-30 10:55:01 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by m***@gmail.com
Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get involved
in important discussions. Many people in their bubbles would know
nothing of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the
field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing
them and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a public
platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
Alan Baker
2017-09-30 14:29:04 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
http://kwese.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/20846600/three-f1-world-champion-lewis-hamilton-shows-support-nfl-protests
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by m***@gmail.com
Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get involved
in important discussions. Many people in their bubbles would know
nothing of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the
field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing
them and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a public
platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.

I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.

I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.

But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
m***@gmail.com
2017-09-30 15:10:29 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
There's another aspect.

A black man didn't suddenly wake up one morning and decide he would disrespect the flag just for kicks.

This is a protest that follows on from years of trying other avenues and hoping that law changes will bring about a country where the colour of your skin is a total irrelevance.
Bigbird
2017-09-30 17:06:45 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
There's another aspect.
A black man didn't suddenly wake up one morning and decide he would
disrespect the flag just for kicks.
WTF disrespected any flag. Don't tell me you bought into Trumps
bullshit.
Bigbird
2017-09-30 17:16:45 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by m***@gmail.com
Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get
involved in important discussions. Many people in their bubbles
would know nothing of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the
field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing
them and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a
public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
Your continuing with the inane then.
Post by Alan Baker
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
Do people marching down the street make you uncomfortable then?
Placards make you a little anxious? A well informed tweet has you
sweating? A celebrity interview has you scared for your life? None of
these things are worth doing according to you. That's bullshit.

You no doubt think that breaking a few windows or daubing a few statues
is also beneficial to the cause.

Also bullshit.

As I said not a discussion worth having and certainly not with you.
t***@gmail.com
2017-10-01 00:49:38 UTC
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As I said not a discussion worth having and certainly not with you.
A hollow, spineless threat. Typical brit.
Alan Baker
2017-10-01 21:51:52 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by m***@gmail.com
Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get
involved in important discussions. Many people in their bubbles
would know nothing of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the
field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing
them and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a
public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
Your continuing with the inane then.
Post by Alan Baker
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
Do people marching down the street make you uncomfortable then?
Me, personally? No. Some people? You bet.
Post by m***@gmail.com
Placards make you a little anxious? A well informed tweet has you
sweating? A celebrity interview has you scared for your life? None of
these things are worth doing according to you. That's bullshit.
I never said anything remotely like that.
Post by m***@gmail.com
You no doubt think that breaking a few windows or daubing a few statues
is also beneficial to the cause.
Or that.
Post by m***@gmail.com
Also bullshit.
As I said not a discussion worth having and certainly not with you.
Name a protest that is effective that also make no one at all
uncomfortable...
Bigbird
2017-10-02 09:57:55 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by m***@gmail.com
Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get
involved in important discussions. Many people in their
bubbles would know nothing of some important matters if
they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto
the field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians
abusing them and predujicially misrepresenting thier
protests on a public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
Your continuing with the inane then.
Post by Alan Baker
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
Do people marching down the street make you uncomfortable then?
Me, personally? No. Some people? You bet.
Why? It's an entirely appropriate; an accepted form of protest in any
country that supports free speech.

...and if all these other accepted forms of protest are appropriate why
then assert that contreversial forms are necessary.

You make little sense other than to be purposefully contrary.

If you didn't understand what I meant you should ask. You are
particularly poor in your assumptions and it simply serves to make you
look unintelligent and a RAT.
geoff
2017-10-02 10:04:08 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
You make little sense other than to be purposefully contrary.
Wow - that's new !

geoff
t***@gmail.com
2017-10-04 01:39:07 UTC
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Post by geoff
Wow - that's new !
Unlike your homosexuality.
Alan Baker
2017-10-04 00:05:55 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by m***@gmail.com
Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get
involved in important discussions. Many people in their
bubbles would know nothing of some important matters if
they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto
the field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians
abusing them and predujicially misrepresenting thier
protests on a public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
Your continuing with the inane then.
Post by Alan Baker
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
Do people marching down the street make you uncomfortable then?
Me, personally? No. Some people? You bet.
Why? It's an entirely appropriate; an accepted form of protest in any
country that supports free speech.
And yet, it still makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
Post by m***@gmail.com
...and if all these other accepted forms of protest are appropriate why
then assert that contreversial forms are necessary.
You make little sense other than to be purposefully contrary.
If you didn't understand what I meant you should ask. You are
particularly poor in your assumptions and it simply serves to make you
look unintelligent and a RAT.
Bigbird
2017-10-04 10:36:26 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan Baker
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Post by Alan Baker
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to
get involved in important discussions. Many people in
their bubbles would know nothing of some important
matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics
onto the field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians
abusing them and predujicially misrepresenting thier
protests on a public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
Your continuing with the inane then.
Post by Alan Baker
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes
SOME people uncomfortable.
Do people marching down the street make you uncomfortable then?
Me, personally? No. Some people? You bet.
Why? It's an entirely appropriate; an accepted form of protest in
any country that supports free speech.
And yet, it still makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
...and so negates both the need for less appropriate protest and your
comment above.
m***@gmail.com
2017-10-04 03:17:36 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Name a protest that is effective that also make no one at all
uncomfortable...
They don't make EVERYBODY uncomfortable.

I recall the Cricket World Cup in South Africa. Some members of the Zimbabwean team wore black arm bands. This is not unusual in cricket, these bands are worn when a famous old player or somebody significant to the team dies, and so usually a statement is issued to explain. But in this case not all the players wore the bands. And the statement said it was a protest against the "death of human rights" in Zimbabwe and the the bands would be worn in all matches.

For South Africans, this was not very confronting and so, in the host country, there was no mass condemnation on the grounds that politics was being bought into sport.

More recently, South African cricketers have not used cricket matches for protest or for addressing much of anything*, but if they did, then reactions would likely vary depending on the cause.


*In the early 70s there was a planned walk off by players at a high profile match, a statement, that the players had all agreed on beforehand, was read, calling for ability to be the sole criteria for selection to the national team.
Dan the Man
2017-10-01 00:23:06 UTC
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Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get involved
in important discussions. Many people in their bubbles would know
nothing of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the
field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing
them and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a public
platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
If I go to a restaurant, I wouldn't tolerate the chef coming out of his kitchen to proselytize me; just make my dinner, or I'm off! Likewise, when I tune in to watch a pro sport - a form of entertainment - I'm well within my rights to change the channel if I'm offended by the athletes' behavior. They're also well within their rights to protest, so long as they understand they're likely to chase away a LOT of paying customers.
~misfit~
2017-10-01 02:39:42 UTC
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http://kwese.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/20846600/three-f1-world-champion-lewis-hamilton-shows-support-nfl-protests
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
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Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get
involved in important discussions. Many people in their bubbles
would know nothing of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the
field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing
them and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a public
platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
If I go to a restaurant, I wouldn't tolerate the chef coming out of
his kitchen to proselytize me; just make my dinner, or I'm off!
Likewise, when I tune in to watch a pro sport - a form of
entertainment - I'm well within my rights to change the channel if
I'm offended by the athletes' behavior. They're also well within
their rights to protest, so long as they understand they're likely to
chase away a LOT of paying customers.
Feel free to stop following Hamiltons twitter feed if it offends you. I
didn't realise you had to pay to follow someone on twitter, I don't get into
that stuff...
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
m***@gmail.com
2017-10-01 03:46:16 UTC
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Post by Dan the Man
If I go to a restaurant, I wouldn't tolerate the chef coming out of his kitchen to proselytize me; just make my dinner, or I'm off! Likewise, when I tune in to watch a pro sport - a form of entertainment - I'm well within my rights to change the channel if I'm offended by the athletes' behavior. They're also well within their rights to protest, so long as they understand they're likely to chase away a LOT of paying customers.
Protest seldom comes at no cost to the protester. Kaepernick is now untouchable in NFL.

So another way to approach this is asking why these athletes are prepared to take the risk of being unemployable.
m***@gmail.com
2017-10-01 04:00:13 UTC
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Post by Dan the Man
If I go to a restaurant, I wouldn't tolerate the chef coming out of his kitchen to proselytize me; just make my dinner, or I'm off! Likewise, when I tune in to watch a pro sport - a form of entertainment - I'm well within my rights to change the channel if I'm offended by the athletes' behavior. They're also well within their rights to protest, so long as they understand they're likely to chase away a LOT of paying customers.
Protest seldom comes at no cost to the protester. Kaepernick is now untouchable in NFL.
So another way to approach this is asking why these athletes are prepared to take the risk of being unemployable.
Or think on this: In Azerbaijan, the police are engaged in a brutal persecution of the LBGT community. What would be the consequences if an F1 driver said that he was not going to Azerbaijan because of the way they brutalise their own citizens, or said that he would boycott the pre-race anthem as a protest? Do you think that would be a career enhancing move?
geoff
2017-10-01 05:58:51 UTC
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Or think on this: In Azerbaijan, the police are engaged in a brutal persecution of the LBGT community. What would be the consequences if an F1 driver said that he was not going to Azerbaijan because of the way they brutalise their own citizens, or said that he would boycott the pre-race anthem as a protest? Do you think that would be a career enhancing move?
Probably not. But a morally satisfying one a strong belief was held in
that direction. For the individual to decide which is more important to
them.

geoff
Bigbird
2017-10-01 06:35:44 UTC
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Post by Dan the Man
If I go to a restaurant, I wouldn't tolerate the chef coming out of
his kitchen to proselytize me; just make my dinner, or I'm off!
Likewise, when I tune in to watch a pro sport - a form of
entertainment - I'm well within my rights to change the channel if
I'm offended by the athletes' behavior. They're also well within
their rights to protest, so long as they understand they're likely
to chase away a LOT of paying customers.
Protest seldom comes at no cost to the protester. Kaepernick is now untouchable in NFL.
I expect he is a little more touchable after the NFL's show of unity
last Sunday.
geoff
2017-10-01 05:56:34 UTC
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Post by Dan the Man
If I go to a restaurant, I wouldn't tolerate the chef coming out of his kitchen to proselytize me; just make my dinner, or I'm off! Likewise, when I tune in to watch a pro sport - a form of entertainment - I'm well within my rights to change the channel if I'm offended by the athletes' behavior. They're also well within their rights to protest, so long as they understand they're likely to chase away a LOT of paying customers.
What a saddo bunch of TV viewers to be so fragile.

geoff
Alan Baker
2017-10-01 21:52:17 UTC
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Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get involved
in important discussions. Many people in their bubbles would know
nothing of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the
field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing
them and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a public
platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
If I go to a restaurant, I wouldn't tolerate the chef coming out of his kitchen to proselytize me; just make my dinner, or I'm off! Likewise, when I tune in to watch a pro sport - a form of entertainment - I'm well within my rights to change the channel if I'm offended by the athletes' behavior. They're also well within their rights to protest, so long as they understand they're likely to chase away a LOT of paying customers.
Of course you are, and I didn't say anything different.
Bigbird
2017-10-01 15:24:40 UTC
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Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get
involved in important discussions. Many people in their bubbles
would know nothing of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the
field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing
them and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a
public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
Thousands of people in Catalonia wasting thier time today?
Alan Baker
2017-10-01 21:50:06 UTC
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Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get
involved in important discussions. Many people in their bubbles
would know nothing of some important matters if they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto the
field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians abusing
them and predujicially misrepresenting thier protests on a
public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
Thousands of people in Catalonia wasting thier time today?
Where and how were they protesting such that no one was made uncomfortable?
Bigbird
2017-10-02 09:50:45 UTC
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Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get
involved in important discussions. Many people in their
bubbles would know nothing of some important matters if
they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto
the field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians
abusing them and predujicially misrepresenting thier
protests on a public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
Thousands of people in Catalonia wasting thier time today?
Where and how were they protesting such that no one was made
uncomfortable?
Moving the goalposts somewhat.

It doesn't make me uncomfortable to see people protesting in an
appropriate environment. Does it make you uncomfortable?

You really know how to take things out of context. To the extent that
your opinion is worthless as it is irrelevant in the context of the
discussion.
Alan Baker
2017-10-04 00:05:21 UTC
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Good on him!
I think it is generallly good thing for celebrities to get
involved in important discussions. Many people in their
bubbles would know nothing of some important matters if
they did not.
However I am less in favour of them bringing politics onto
the field of play.
Having said that I am even less in favour of politicians
abusing them and predujicially misrepresenting thier
protests on a public platform.
If you don't protest where it will make people a little
uncomfortable, then why are you bothering to protest at all?
That's simply inane. Unworthy of further response.
No. It is central to the issue.
I can sit here in my living room and protest to my hearts content.
I can protest in front of a room of like-minded people.
But neither will have the impact of protesting where it makes SOME
people uncomfortable.
Thousands of people in Catalonia wasting thier time today?
Where and how were they protesting such that no one was made
uncomfortable?
Moving the goalposts somewhat.
Not in the slightest.
Post by m***@gmail.com
It doesn't make me uncomfortable to see people protesting in an
appropriate environment. Does it make you uncomfortable?
But YOU don't get to define "appropriate"...

...that's the POINT.
Post by m***@gmail.com
You really know how to take things out of context. To the extent that
your opinion is worthless as it is irrelevant in the context of the
discussion.
Bigbird
2017-10-04 10:59:07 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
Moving the goalposts somewhat.
Not in the slightest.
Entirely. My comment was regarding the appropriateness of using
sporting occasions for political and/or other personal protests.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Bigbird
It doesn't make me uncomfortable to see people protesting in an
appropriate environment. Does it make you uncomfortable?
But YOU don't get to define "appropriate"...
Of course I do. No-one can do it for me.
Post by Alan Baker
...that's the POINT.
No you muppet. The point was that I am unsure whether it is appropriate.

However having moved the goalposts I see you are avoiding answering the
question above. I assume that is because it undermines your daft
assertion.
geoff
2017-10-04 19:10:03 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
No you muppet. The point was that I am unsure whether it is appropriate.
1936 Olympics may have been a good place.

geoff

t***@gmail.com
2017-10-01 00:47:47 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Unworthy of further response.
A hollow, spineless threat. Typical brit.
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