Discussion:
LH might lose his win ...
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Geoff May
2018-07-22 16:31:33 UTC
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516

Cheers

Geoff
Geoff May
2018-07-22 17:39:46 UTC
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Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
And is reprimanded:
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135

Cheers

Geoff
Sir Tim
2018-07-22 17:58:47 UTC
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Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been almost as
egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008, when Max Mosley
was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren. Fortunately the stewards
these days take a more reasonable and balanced view of such incidents.
--
Sir Tim
Geoff May
2018-07-22 18:09:16 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been almost as
egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008, when Max Mosley
was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren. Fortunately the stewards
these days take a more reasonable and balanced view of such incidents.
Raikonnen did something similar about 2 years ago and got 5 seconds so
LH would have dropped to 2nd place.

Cheers

Geoff
Sir Tim
2018-07-22 19:06:02 UTC
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Post by Geoff May
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been almost as
egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008, when Max Mosley
was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren. Fortunately the stewards
these days take a more reasonable and balanced view of such incidents.
Raikonnen did something similar about 2 years ago and got 5 seconds so
LH would have dropped to 2nd place.
But Kimi did not lose a race win and six points. The punishment should fit
the crime.
--
Sir Tim
Bigbird
2018-07-22 18:25:47 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Post by Sir Tim
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been
almost as egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008,
when Max Mosley was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren.
Fortunately the stewards these days take a more reasonable and
balanced view of such incidents.
I understand the decision but I don't think a 5 or even 10 second
penalty would have been inconsistent. It is behaviour that needs to be
discouraged.

It's not a technicality is it; it's an obvious safety issue.
Sir Tim
2018-07-22 19:02:27 UTC
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Post by Geoff May
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Post by Sir Tim
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been
almost as egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008,
when Max Mosley was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren.
Fortunately the stewards these days take a more reasonable and
balanced view of such incidents.
I understand the decision but I don't think a 5 or even 10 second
penalty would have been inconsistent. It is behaviour that needs to be
discouraged.
It's not a technicality is it; it's an obvious safety issue.
An obvious safety issue? When the stewards acknowledge that “at no time was
there any danger to any other competitor and the change in direction was
executed in a safe way”.

I agree that a time penalty would not have been inconsistent *in some
circumstances* but in this case the punishment would have far outweighed
the crime: Hamilton would have lost a race win and 6 championship points.

The stewards were right to exercise their discretion.
--
Sir Tim
Alister
2018-07-22 19:38:55 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?
ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
Post by Sir Tim
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been
almost as egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008,
when Max Mosley was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren.
Fortunately the stewards these days take a more reasonable and
balanced view of such incidents.
I understand the decision but I don't think a 5 or even 10 second
penalty would have been inconsistent. It is behaviour that needs to be
discouraged.
It's not a technicality is it; it's an obvious safety issue.
An obvious safety issue? When the stewards acknowledge that “at no time
was there any danger to any other competitor and the change in direction
was executed in a safe way”.
I agree that a time penalty would not have been inconsistent *in some
circumstances* but in this case the punishment would have far outweighed
the crime: Hamilton would have lost a race win and 6 championship points.
The stewards were right to exercise their discretion.
Lewis often seems to be on the receiving end of wrong decisions by the
stewards (spar 2008 being the worst)
looks like this time a possibly* wrong decision has worked in his favour

*I could not watch the race but it is clear he broke the rules, the
question is what punishments the rules dictate.
--
It is all right to hold a conversation, but you should let go of it
now and then.
-- Richard Armour
DumbedDownUSA
2018-07-22 20:42:44 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been
almost as egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008,
when Max Mosley was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren.
Fortunately the stewards these days take a more reasonable and
balanced view of such incidents.
I understand the decision but I don't think a 5 or even 10 second
penalty would have been inconsistent. It is behaviour that needs to
be discouraged.
It's not a technicality is it; it's an obvious safety issue.
An obvious safety issue?
Yes, in general. It is the same for unsafe releases oe speeding in the
pitlane. No one needs to be hurt in order for a penalty to be issued.
Post by Sir Tim
When the stewards acknowledge that “at no
time was there any danger to any other competitor and the change in
direction was executed in a safe way”.
Like I said I understand why they didn't give a penalty but this is not
horse racing, there job is not just to redress but to prevent/deter and
in some cases that means giving a penalty even if there were no
detrimental consequences.
Post by Sir Tim
I agree that a time penalty would not have been inconsistent *in some
circumstances* but in this case the punishment would have far
outweighed the crime: Hamilton would have lost a race win and 6
championship points.
7 or more, no? Losing the race win is a consequence not the penalty.
Sometimes a 5/10 second penalty costs a driver nothing. Does that make
all those penalties wrong also?
Post by Sir Tim
The stewards were right to exercise their discretion.
--
If I am not the real DDUSA I must be the overweight attention seeking
loser sitting on my mothers couch in underpants I haven't changed in a
week.
Trump averages eight falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
Sir Tim
2018-07-22 21:43:26 UTC
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Post by DumbedDownUSA
7 or more, no?
Correct (I can’t count).
--
Sir Tim
keithr0
2018-07-22 22:34:52 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been almost as
egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008, when Max Mosley
was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren. Fortunately the stewards
these days take a more reasonable and balanced view of such incidents.
What is the point of a penalty if it doesn't inflict some pain?
Sir Tim
2018-07-23 06:01:00 UTC
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Post by keithr0
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been almost as
egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008, when Max Mosley
was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren. Fortunately the stewards
these days take a more reasonable and balanced view of such incidents.
What is the point of a penalty if it doesn't inflict some pain?
The pain should be proportionate to the offence.
keithr0
2018-07-23 09:28:58 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by keithr0
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1021086045042077697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1021086045042077697&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Fformula1%2F44669135
Had Hamilton lost his win on this technicality it would have been almost as
egregious as his being robbed of his win at Spa in 2008, when Max Mosley
was busy pursuing his vendetta against McLaren. Fortunately the stewards
these days take a more reasonable and balanced view of such incidents.
What is the point of a penalty if it doesn't inflict some pain?
The pain should be proportionate to the offence.
The penalty is the penalty it should make no difference whether a race
or even a championship is lost because of it . The fact that no danger
was incurred in this case is irrelevant, if it was against the rules
then a penalty should be applied.

I do get the idea that there would be less hand wringing if it wasn't Lewis.
Sir Tim
2018-07-23 09:53:28 UTC
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Post by keithr0
I do get the idea that there would be less hand wringing if it wasn't Lewis.
Not sure that there has been much “hand wringing” - Lewis got away with it
and that’s that. Subsequent discussion is almost certain to take partisan
lines.
--
Sir Tim
Bigbird
2018-07-23 15:08:12 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by keithr0
I do get the idea that there would be less hand wringing if it wasn't Lewis.
Not sure that there has been much “hand wringing” - Lewis got away
with it and that’s that. Subsequent discussion is almost certain to
take partisan lines.
...or at least one may claim that if one doesn't like anothers opinion.
I don't think you'll find I am biased against Lewis... even if I don't
think God is watching over him.

:)
Sir Tim
2018-07-24 10:51:27 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Post by keithr0
I do get the idea that there would be less hand wringing if it wasn't Lewis.
Not sure that there has been much “hand wringing” - Lewis got away
with it and that’s that. Subsequent discussion is almost certain to
take partisan lines.
...or at least one may claim that if one doesn't like anothers opinion.
I don't think you'll find I am biased against Lewis... even if I don't
think God is watching over him.
:)
:-)
Yes, that interview with Lewis, in which he seemed slightly hysterical
(not surprising perhaps after one of his best drives), was a little
worrying and reminiscent of Ayrton Senna. I do hope that he is not going
to start believing that his success is down to divine intervention
rather than his own sublime skills (or, as many would argue, a great car).

Actually I don't think that you are biased (well, perhaps a little
against Fred ;-)) and I respect your opinion. However I do hate to see a
race decided in the stewards' room and believe that they should be
allowed a little latitude. After all they were pretty lenient on Vettel
at Baku last year.
--
Sir Tim

“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
M2T
2018-07-24 12:53:13 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Post by keithr0
I do get the idea that there would be less hand wringing if it wasn't Lewis.
Not sure that there has been much “hand wringing” - Lewis got away
with it and that’s that. Subsequent discussion is almost certain to
take partisan lines.
...or at least one may claim that if one doesn't like anothers opinion.
I don't think you'll find I am biased against Lewis... even if I don't
think God is watching over him.
:)
:-)
Yes, that interview with Lewis, in which he seemed slightly hysterical
(not surprising perhaps after one of his best drives), was a little
worrying and reminiscent of Ayrton Senna. I do hope that he is not going
to start believing that his success is down to divine intervention
rather than his own sublime skills (or, as many would argue, a great car).
I hope he's not got involved with one of those merkin happy clapper
churches. They would have seen him coming.
Post by Sir Tim
Actually I don't think that you are biased (well, perhaps a little
against Fred ;-)) and I respect your opinion. However I do hate to see a
race decided in the stewards' room and believe that they should be
allowed a little latitude. After all they were pretty lenient on Vettel
at Baku last year.
The rules are a mess, no surprise when a fool like Whiting gets to make
the decisions.
build
2018-07-24 15:22:55 UTC
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Post by M2T
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Post by keithr0
I do get the idea that there would be less hand wringing if it wasn't Lewis.
Not sure that there has been much “hand wringing” - Lewis got away
with it and that’s that. Subsequent discussion is almost certain to
take partisan lines.
...or at least one may claim that if one doesn't like anothers opinion.
I don't think you'll find I am biased against Lewis... even if I don't
think God is watching over him.
:)
:-)
Yes, that interview with Lewis, in which he seemed slightly hysterical
(not surprising perhaps after one of his best drives), was a little
worrying and reminiscent of Ayrton Senna. I do hope that he is not going
to start believing that his success is down to divine intervention
rather than his own sublime skills (or, as many would argue, a great car).
I hope he's not got involved with one of those merkin happy clapper
churches. They would have seen him coming.
Post by Sir Tim
Actually I don't think that you are biased (well, perhaps a little
against Fred ;-)) and I respect your opinion. However I do hate to see a
race decided in the stewards' room and believe that they should be
allowed a little latitude. After all they were pretty lenient on Vettel
at Baku last year.
The rules are a mess, no surprise when a fool like Whiting gets to make
the decisions.
What the heck does Charlie Whiting have to do with stewards decisions?
M2T
2018-07-24 15:32:32 UTC
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Post by build
What the heck does Charlie Whiting have to do with stewards decisions?
Only a drunken twat wouldn't know.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-24 22:20:23 UTC
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Post by M2T
Only a drunken twat wouldn't know.
You fucking useless piece of shit.
geoff
2018-07-24 22:57:53 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Post by keithr0
I do get the idea that there would be less hand wringing if it wasn't Lewis.
Not sure that there has been much “hand wringing” - Lewis got away
with it and that’s that. Subsequent discussion is almost certain to
take partisan lines.
...or at least one may claim that if one doesn't like anothers opinion.
I don't think you'll find I am biased against Lewis... even if I don't
think God is watching over him.
:)
:-)
Yes, that interview with Lewis, in which he seemed slightly hysterical
(not surprising perhaps after one of his best drives), was a little
worrying and reminiscent of Ayrton Senna. I do hope that he is not going
to start believing that his success is down to divine intervention
rather than his own sublime skills (or, as many would argue, a great car).
Yeah, so what did god have against Jules Bianchi ?
Post by Sir Tim
Actually I don't think that you are biased (well, perhaps a little
against Fred ;-)) and I respect your opinion. However I do hate to see a
race decided in the stewards' room and believe that they should be
allowed a little latitude. After all they were pretty lenient on Vettel
at Baku last year.
I don't think many here are actual biased against Ferdie, just against
those who doggedly faun on him and his skill of yesteryear ;- )

geoff
Sir Tim
2018-07-25 06:27:19 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Sir Tim
Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Post by keithr0
I do get the idea that there would be less hand wringing if it wasn't Lewis.
Not sure that there has been much “hand wringing” - Lewis got away
with it and that’s that. Subsequent discussion is almost certain to
take partisan lines.
...or at least one may claim that if one doesn't like anothers opinion.
I don't think you'll find I am biased against Lewis... even if I don't
think God is watching over him.
:)
:-)
Yes, that interview with Lewis, in which he seemed slightly hysterical
(not surprising perhaps after one of his best drives), was a little
worrying and reminiscent of Ayrton Senna. I do hope that he is not going
to start believing that his success is down to divine intervention
rather than his own sublime skills (or, as many would argue, a great car).
Yeah, so what did god have against Jules Bianchi ?
Post by Sir Tim
Actually I don't think that you are biased (well, perhaps a little
against Fred ;-)) and I respect your opinion. However I do hate to see a
race decided in the stewards' room and believe that they should be
allowed a little latitude. After all they were pretty lenient on Vettel
at Baku last year.
I don't think many here are actual biased against Ferdie, just against
those who doggedly faun on him and his skill of yesteryear ;- )
geoff
Can you think of anyone in particular? :-)
Sir Tim
2018-07-25 06:32:36 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Bigbird
Post by Sir Tim
Post by keithr0
I do get the idea that there would be less hand wringing if it wasn't Lewis.
Not sure that there has been much “hand wringing” - Lewis got away
with it and that’s that. Subsequent discussion is almost certain to
take partisan lines.
...or at least one may claim that if one doesn't like anothers opinion.
I don't think you'll find I am biased against Lewis... even if I don't
think God is watching over him.
:)
:-)
Yes, that interview with Lewis, in which he seemed slightly hysterical
(not surprising perhaps after one of his best drives), was a little
worrying and reminiscent of Ayrton Senna. I do hope that he is not going
to start believing that his success is down to divine intervention
rather than his own sublime skills (or, as many would argue, a great car).
Yeah, so what did God have against Jules Bianchi ?
Or, perhaps more relevantly, Graham Beveridge and Paolo Ghilimberti.
--
Sir Tim
CS
2018-07-23 12:01:14 UTC
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It is all in the words.

The BBC quoted :

"crossing the line separating the pit entry and the track by a car entering the pit lane is prohibited".

LH didn't do that. He was correctly in the pit lane after leaving the track normally and left it before the pits.

No doubt there is a similar rule for leaving the pits and crossing the line early. But not applicable.

Perhaps there will be a new rule as a result of LH's case??

Reprimand was really all the stewards could do without a legal challenge.
Bigbird
2018-07-23 15:15:36 UTC
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Post by CS
It is all in the words.
"crossing the line separating the pit entry and the track by a car
entering the pit lane is prohibited".
They were wrong.

The FIA say...


d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards), the crossing, *in any direction*, of the line separating
the pit entry and the track by a car entering the pit lane is
prohibited.

[snip moot]
Alister
2018-07-24 09:29:56 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by CS
It is all in the words.
"crossing the line separating the pit entry and the track by a car
entering the pit lane is prohibited".
They were wrong.
The FIA say...
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards),
the crossing, *in any direction*, of the line separating the pit entry
and the track by a car entering the pit lane is prohibited.
[snip moot]
there is no question that Lewis indeed broke the rule, there is no
dispute that Lewis should have been punished, the stewards issued a
reprimand which is a punishment.
The debate is whether or not the punishment issued was sufficient.

I am a declared Lewis supporter but I still think the stewards were wrong
& he got off lightly, makes a pleasant change :-)
--
I'm starting to think the gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Bigbird
2018-07-24 10:07:18 UTC
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Post by Alister
Post by Bigbird
Post by CS
It is all in the words.
"crossing the line separating the pit entry and the track by a car
entering the pit lane is prohibited".
They were wrong.
The FIA say...
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards), the crossing, *in any direction*, of the line separating
the pit entry and the track by a car entering the pit lane is
prohibited.
[snip moot]
there is no question that Lewis indeed broke the rule, there is no
dispute that Lewis should have been punished, the stewards issued a
reprimand which is a punishment.
The debate is whether or not the punishment issued was sufficient.
I am a declared Lewis supporter but I still think the stewards were
wrong & he got off lightly, makes a pleasant change :-)
I wouldn't go as far as saying the stewards were wrong but a 5 or 10
second penalty would not have surprised me and I would not be
complaining about it.

Transgressions where there is a safety issue commonly carry a deterrent
element to any penalty.

And yes, deliberate off-roading is a safety issue whether it is the
chance of losing control or simply dragging debris onto the track or
regaining the track near other cars.
geoff
2018-07-24 22:49:19 UTC
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Post by Alister
Post by Bigbird
Post by CS
It is all in the words.
"crossing the line separating the pit entry and the track by a car
entering the pit lane is prohibited".
They were wrong.
The FIA say...
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards),
the crossing, *in any direction*, of the line separating the pit entry
and the track by a car entering the pit lane is prohibited.
[snip moot]
there is no question that Lewis indeed broke the rule, there is no
dispute that Lewis should have been punished, the stewards issued a
reprimand which is a punishment.
The debate is whether or not the punishment issued was sufficient.
I am a declared Lewis supporter but I still think the stewards were wrong
& he got off lightly, makes a pleasant change :-)
If there was a higher penalty I think it should have gone against the team.

geoff
Bigbird
2018-07-25 08:01:15 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by Bigbird
Post by CS
It is all in the words.
"crossing the line separating the pit entry and the track by a
car entering the pit lane is prohibited".
They were wrong.
The FIA say...
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards), the crossing, *in any direction*, of the line
separating the pit entry and the track by a car entering the pit
lane is prohibited.
[snip moot]
there is no question that Lewis indeed broke the rule, there is no
dispute that Lewis should have been punished, the stewards issued a
reprimand which is a punishment.
The debate is whether or not the punishment issued was sufficient.
I am a declared Lewis supporter but I still think the stewards were
wrong & he got off lightly, makes a pleasant change :-)
If there was a higher penalty I think it should have gone against the team.
It was 100% a driver infraction of the Code of Driving Conduct on
Circuits so I don't see how you come to that conclusion.
Alister
2018-07-25 11:56:20 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by Bigbird
Post by CS
It is all in the words.
"crossing the line separating the pit entry and the track by a car
entering the pit lane is prohibited".
They were wrong.
The FIA say...
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards),
the crossing, *in any direction*, of the line separating the pit entry
and the track by a car entering the pit lane is prohibited.
[snip moot]
there is no question that Lewis indeed broke the rule, there is no
dispute that Lewis should have been punished, the stewards issued a
reprimand which is a punishment.
The debate is whether or not the punishment issued was sufficient.
I am a declared Lewis supporter but I still think the stewards were
wrong & he got off lightly, makes a pleasant change :-)
If there was a higher penalty I think it should have gone against the team.
geoff
Why?
it was lewis that decided to abort the Pit entry not a team call.
--
<nonlinear> .net is microsofts perverted version of a java networked
environment uglified for windows-specific crap
DumbedDownUSA
2018-07-25 15:40:47 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by Bigbird
Post by CS
It is all in the words.
"crossing the line separating the pit entry and the track by a
car >>>> entering the pit lane is prohibited".
Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by Bigbird
They were wrong.
The FIA say...
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards),
the crossing, *in any direction*, of the line separating the pit
entry >>> and the track by a car entering the pit lane is prohibited.
Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by Bigbird
[snip moot]
there is no question that Lewis indeed broke the rule, there is no
dispute that Lewis should have been punished, the stewards issued a
reprimand which is a punishment.
The debate is whether or not the punishment issued was sufficient.
I am a declared Lewis supporter but I still think the stewards were
wrong & he got off lightly, makes a pleasant change :-)
If there was a higher penalty I think it should have gone against the team.
geoff
Why?
it was lewis that decided to abort the Pit entry not a team call.
Even if it were a team call the driver is responsible for driving the
car and obeying the code.
--
If I am not the real DDUSA I must be the overweight attention seeking
loser sitting on my mothers couch in underpants I haven't changed in a
week.
Trump averages eight falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
geoff
2018-07-25 23:24:29 UTC
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Post by Alister
Post by geoff
If there was a higher penalty I think it should have gone against the team.
geoff
Why?
it was lewis that decided to abort the Pit entry not a team call.
Last words of the radio call "...just go". Not "just come".

Sounded like a team call to me. But yes, HAM chose not to ignore the
team call, i the heat of the few seconds.

geoff
Alister
2018-07-26 08:59:57 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by geoff
If there was a higher penalty I think it should have gone against the team.
geoff
Why?
it was lewis that decided to abort the Pit entry not a team call.
Last words of the radio call "...just go". Not "just come".
Did It? If so it changes things only slightly, it is still the
responsibility of the driver to ensure he obeys the rules of the road.

The TV Coverage I saw only included a panicked "In In In"
Post by geoff
Sounded like a team call to me. But yes, HAM chose not to ignore the
team call, i the heat of the few seconds.
geoff
--
Love your neighbour, yet don't pull down your hedge.
-- Benjamin Franklin
Bigbird
2018-07-26 09:28:21 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by geoff
If there was a higher penalty I think it should have gone against
the >>> team.
Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by geoff
geoff
Why?
it was lewis that decided to abort the Pit entry not a team call.
Last words of the radio call "...just go". Not "just come".
Did It? If so it changes things only slightly, it is still the
responsibility of the driver to ensure he obeys the rules of the road.
The TV Coverage I saw only included a panicked "In In In"
PETER BONNINGTON: So Vettel off. Yellow, yellow. Yellow, yellow.
Caution. Caution. Vettel off. So yellow, yellow. Yellow, yellow.

PAUSE.

PB: So box, box. Box, box. Get the gap. So gap to Valtteri.

LEWIS HAMILTON: Kimi is staying out.

PB: Stay out, stay out. In, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in.

LH: Hey man.

PB: Sorry mate. Just go, go.
Alister
2018-07-26 11:31:05 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by geoff
If there was a higher penalty I think it should have gone against
the >>> team.
Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by geoff
geoff
Why?
it was lewis that decided to abort the Pit entry not a team call.
Last words of the radio call "...just go". Not "just come".
Did It? If so it changes things only slightly, it is still the
responsibility of the driver to ensure he obeys the rules of the road.
The TV Coverage I saw only included a panicked "In In In"
PETER BONNINGTON: So Vettel off. Yellow, yellow. Yellow, yellow.
Caution. Caution. Vettel off. So yellow, yellow. Yellow, yellow.
PAUSE.
PB: So box, box. Box, box. Get the gap. So gap to Valtteri.
LEWIS HAMILTON: Kimi is staying out.
PB: Stay out, stay out. In, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in.
LH: Hey man.
PB: Sorry mate. Just go, go.
thanks
I thought the "sorry mate just go go" was after lewis had aborted the pit
entry, but could easily be wrong.
--
Forecast, n.:
A prediction of the future, based on the past, for
which the forecaster demands payment in the present.
geoff
2018-07-26 09:31:02 UTC
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Post by Alister
Post by geoff
Post by Alister
Post by geoff
If there was a higher penalty I think it should have gone against the team.
geoff
Why?
it was lewis that decided to abort the Pit entry not a team call.
Last words of the radio call "...just go". Not "just come".
Did It? If so it changes things only slightly, it is still the
responsibility of the driver to ensure he obeys the rules of the road.
The TV Coverage I saw only included a panicked "In In In"
"Stay out.... in, in, in, in!! .... no, sorry mate, just go" -

Or to listen in full:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06ffgjy

geoff
jtees4
2018-07-24 17:04:08 UTC
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On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
~misfit~
2018-07-25 06:51:39 UTC
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Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
build
2018-07-25 08:04:33 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
M2T
2018-07-25 09:46:27 UTC
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Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
What the heck does Charlie Whiting have to do with stewards decisions?
Must have been a drunk.
build
2018-07-25 10:33:27 UTC
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Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
What the heck does Charlie Whiting have to do with stewards decisions?
I must be drunk.
As you are drunk I'll keep it very simple for you.

Charlie is not a steward and does not make decisions on penalties.
Charlie does know the rules.

Have you got it yet?
M2T
2018-07-25 12:50:29 UTC
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Post by build
Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
What the heck does Charlie Whiting have to do with stewards decisions?
I must be drunk.
As you are drunk I'll keep it very simple for you.
Charlie is not a steward and does not make decisions on penalties.
Charlie does know the rules.
Have you got it yet?
He 'directs' the stewards you thick drunken twat.
build
2018-07-25 13:38:47 UTC
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Post by M2T
Post by build
Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
What the heck does Charlie Whiting have to do with stewards decisions?
I must be drunk.
As you are drunk I'll keep it very simple for you.
Charlie is not a steward and does not make decisions on penalties.
Charlie does know the rules.
Have you got it yet?
He 'directs' the stewards you thick drunken twat.
No he does not.
M2T
2018-07-25 13:57:29 UTC
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Post by build
Post by M2T
Post by build
Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
What the heck does Charlie Whiting have to do with stewards decisions?
I must be drunk.
As you are drunk I'll keep it very simple for you.
Charlie is not a steward and does not make decisions on penalties.
Charlie does know the rules.
Have you got it yet?
He 'directs' the stewards you thick drunken twat.
No he does not.
Carry On Digging, starring the Drunken Digger.
geoff
2018-07-25 11:26:13 UTC
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Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
No line, just grass.

geoff
build
2018-07-25 11:38:49 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
No line, just grass.
geoff
Line.
build
2018-07-25 11:43:12 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
No line, just grass.
geoff
Line.
To be clearer, here is a quote from Charlie Whiting.
"There is another rule in the sporting code which says the line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."

There is a line and Lewis crossed it.

build
M2T
2018-07-25 12:52:10 UTC
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Post by build
Post by geoff
Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
No line, just grass.
geoff
Line.
To be clearer, here is a quote from Charlie Whiting.
"There is another rule in the sporting code which says the line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
There is a line and Lewis crossed it.
Here we go, the drunk is confusing himself with Whiting's quotes and his
own makey uppey bollocks.
Willsy
2018-07-25 11:50:38 UTC
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Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
If the line may not be crossed, then how do you get into the pit-lane?

The wording is literally nonsense. As in non-sense. It's non-sensical.
build
2018-07-25 12:09:11 UTC
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Post by Willsy
Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after all.
Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates the track
from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the pit entry and
rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking covered by the pit line
rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the pitlane."
If the line may not be crossed, then how do you get into the pit-lane?
The wording is literally nonsense. As in non-sense. It's non-sensical.
The line delineates the side boundaries of the pit entry, it does not cross the pit entry.
Bigbird
2018-07-25 15:44:43 UTC
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Post by build
Post by ~misfit~
Post by jtees4
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:31:33 +0100, Geoff May
Post by Geoff May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44918516
Cheers
Geoff
I guess "crossing the line is prohibited" is not a set rule after
all. Kind of makes rules not quite as important as they seem to
be.
But he didn't cross the pit (entry or exit) line - that delineates
the track from the pits entry/exit. He crossed the grass from the
pit entry and rejioned the track which isn't strictly speaking
covered by the pit line rules.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Charlie Whiting: " ... line separating the pit entry from the track
may not be crossed in either direction by any car entering the
pitlane."
Why are you bothering to quote Whiting when you could simply quote the
actual code (which you can find quoted earlier in the thread if you
don't know where to look in the regs).

Any mention of Whiting obviously upsets M2T...

...Oh!
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-25 20:52:55 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Why are you bothering to quote Whiting
Why are such a miserable fucking cunt?
larkim
2018-07-25 10:00:22 UTC
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No, but he did cross solid white lines delineating the track limits as he had selected the pit lane entrance.

I’m on Lewis’ side here in terms of outcome - from a pure sporting perspective I wouldn’t have wanted to see him lose a race again because the team had a strategy meltdown over the radio.

I wonder if this season’s daft strategy calls by Merc were on his mind when he half second-guessed them in terms of decision making at that point - I know I was pulling my hair out wondering why on earth he would pit under SC given he’d just put on fresh tyres.
Alister
2018-07-25 11:59:57 UTC
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Post by larkim
No, but he did cross solid white lines delineating the track limits as
he had selected the pit lane entrance.
I’m on Lewis’ side here in terms of outcome - from a pure sporting
perspective I wouldn’t have wanted to see him lose a race again because
the team had a strategy meltdown over the radio.
I wonder if this season’s daft strategy calls by Merc were on his mind
when he half second-guessed them in terms of decision making at that
point - I know I was pulling my hair out wondering why on earth he would
pit under SC given he’d just put on fresh tyres.
I'm sorry but you will find there is a line marking the extent of the pit
lane even when the pit lane even when there is a grass area separating
the pit lane form the track.

the exact wording of the rule may be slightly ambiguous bit its intention
is perfectly clear.
--
There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right
keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- J.S. Bach
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