Discussion:
McLaren - testing troubles?
(too old to reply)
larkim
2018-02-27 18:31:36 UTC
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Despite the lack of a Honda in the back, they're down on miles already.

Obviously, implementing the Renault unit will have some challenges, but with
STR seeming to be able to bang out miles with a Honda in the back, this does
look a little concerning, no?
Bigbird
2018-02-27 19:33:53 UTC
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Post by larkim
Despite the lack of a Honda in the back, they're down on miles
already.
Obviously, implementing the Renault unit will have some challenges,
but with STR seeming to be able to bang out miles with a Honda in the
back, this does look a little concerning, no?
It's hard to shake that back of the grid mentality; they need good
leadership.
Bruce Hoult
2018-02-27 20:45:11 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by larkim
Despite the lack of a Honda in the back, they're down on miles already.
Obviously, implementing the Renault unit will have some challenges,
but with STR seeming to be able to bang out miles with a Honda in the
back, this does look a little concerning, no?
It's hard to shake that back of the grid mentality; they need good
leadership.
Did the awfulness start when they booted Ronzo for Whitmarsh? (himself long gone)
m***@gmail.com
2018-02-28 03:28:52 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by Bigbird
It's hard to shake that back of the grid mentality; they need good
leadership.
Did the awfulness start when they booted Ronzo for Whitmarsh? (himself long gone)
Yes. Though that also coincides with the time at which Merc bought the Brawn team and started concentrating on that. Ronzo returned in 2014. Results did not improve.
larkim
2018-03-01 13:37:45 UTC
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Post by larkim
Despite the lack of a Honda in the back, they're down on miles already.
Obviously, implementing the Renault unit will have some challenges, but with
STR seeming to be able to bang out miles with a Honda in the back, this does
look a little concerning, no?
Decent miles today, will be a relief for them. Still opting for the hyper
soft tyre for artifical pace, but I suppose if it can be warmed up and used
quickly that has some benefits for testing. Odd that no-one else is running
it though.
~misfit~
2018-03-02 05:40:59 UTC
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Post by larkim
Post by larkim
Despite the lack of a Honda in the back, they're down on miles already.
Obviously, implementing the Renault unit will have some challenges,
but with STR seeming to be able to bang out miles with a Honda in
the back, this does look a little concerning, no?
Decent miles today, will be a relief for them. Still opting for the
hyper soft tyre for artifical pace, but I suppose if it can be warmed
up and used quickly that has some benefits for testing. Odd that
no-one else is running it though.
When it's only 10 degrees it makes sense to opt for a soft compound -
especially when you've got sponsors to attract (something most of the other
teams don't ned to worry about quite as much).

I really like the look of the 2018 McLaren. They've done some excellent worh
on the aero and rear suspension especially. I'm expecting them to at least
be on par with RBR, maybe even ahead of them by a few races in.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
larkim
2018-03-02 07:21:35 UTC
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Love those sorts of comments.

We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the aero" just by looking at pictures. Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
~misfit~
2018-03-02 08:30:09 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by larkim
Love those sorts of comments.
Thank you.
Post by larkim
We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the aero"
just by looking at pictures.
Speak for yourself. I've seen quite a bit of video of the car as well as
stills and heard some very educated pinions (as well as having my own).
Post by larkim
Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
Actually only race results will show it.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
larkim
2018-03-02 10:06:07 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Love those sorts of comments.
Thank you.
Post by larkim
We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the aero"
just by looking at pictures.
Speak for yourself. I've seen quite a bit of video of the car as well as
stills and heard some very educated pinions (as well as having my own).
Post by larkim
Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
Actually only race results will show it.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
LOL! You're right of course about the race results - "it's only testing"

I was reading your post literally though - "I really like the look of the
2018 McLaren. They've done some excellent worh on the aero and rear
suspension especially" - i.e it read as if you were forming your
judgements about the aero and suspension on a visual look which clearly
ought not to be able to stand scrutiny otherwise the real experts would
have no need for CFD, flowvis paint, aero rakes etc etc

I've read similar - those who are really closely exposed to it say the
chassis and aero are good, and that bodes well. My concern though is that
they are on a tyre 2secs faster than many others, so any speed we're seeing
might just be illusory.

Having said that, its by no means certain that the tyre is 2sec faster in
these conditions, and "it is only testing".
build
2018-03-02 11:12:45 UTC
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Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Love those sorts of comments.
Thank you.
Post by larkim
We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the aero"
just by looking at pictures.
Speak for yourself. I've seen quite a bit of video of the car as well as
stills and heard some very educated pinions (as well as having my own).
Post by larkim
Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
Actually only race results will show it.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
LOL! You're right of course about the race results - "it's only testing"
I was reading your post literally though - "I really like the look of the
2018 McLaren. They've done some excellent worh on the aero and rear
suspension especially" - i.e it read as if you were forming your
judgements about the aero and suspension on a visual look which clearly
ought not to be able to stand scrutiny otherwise the real experts would
have no need for CFD, flowvis paint, aero rakes etc etc
I've read similar - those who are really closely exposed to it say the
chassis and aero are good, and that bodes well. My concern though is that
they are on a tyre 2secs faster than many others, so any speed we're seeing
might just be illusory.
Having said that, its by no means certain that the tyre is 2sec faster in
these conditions, and "it is only testing".
Also the images of the cars available prior to the first test were not the cars that that turned up last Monday. And they'll change next week and again in Melbourne. Any analysis of the early images makes good broadcast minutes and column inches and little else.

What counts is all the sector times over known long runs and comments from experienced observers. I'm told by an experienced observer that the Macca did look good and the sectors over long runs looked promising, he added we'd get a less grey picture next week and added cautionary comments. Like most folk I'll add it's only testing.

The only occasion I've (and others) been certain about a car was the very unusual case of the Braun where they had no choice but to make the capability of the car visible and I made a lot of money from that.

beers,
~misfit~
2018-03-02 13:29:09 UTC
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Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Love those sorts of comments.
Thank you.
Post by larkim
We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the aero"
just by looking at pictures.
Speak for yourself. I've seen quite a bit of video of the car as
well as stills and heard some very educated pinions (as well as
having my own).
Post by larkim
Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
Actually only race results will show it.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
LOL! You're right of course about the race results - "it's only testing"
I was reading your post literally though - "I really like the look of
the 2018 McLaren. They've done some excellent worh on the aero and
rear suspension especially" - i.e it read as if you were forming your
judgements about the aero and suspension on a visual look which
clearly ought not to be able to stand scrutiny otherwise the real
experts would have no need for CFD, flowvis paint, aero rakes etc etc
True.

I'm not saying that I could design an aero package for an F1 car but having
an active and curious mind and having watched the sport for many years now I
do think I have a feel for what is a well designed car. Aerodynamically
there are some fascinating cars on the grid this year - there seem to be two
main schools of thought on show.

I like how both McLaren and Sauber are trying to make a sort of ground
effects by using 'curtains' of airflow to partially seal the sides of the
underbody. Also some teams have gone for guiding air between the front
suspension while others have gone for guiding air above it into high sidepod
openings. McLarens rear wishbones are things of beauty (or will be if they
work as designed)
Post by larkim
I've read similar - those who are really closely exposed to it say the
chassis and aero are good, and that bodes well. My concern though is
that they are on a tyre 2secs faster than many others, so any speed
we're seeing might just be illusory.
I wasn't really basing my comments on the speed they got on those tyres,
more on the package as a whole.
Post by larkim
Having said that, its by no means certain that the tyre is 2sec
faster in these conditions, and "it is only testing".
Indeed. The tyres have had a big shake-up and, as they were saying up and
down the pits, they simply have no frame of reference for running cars in
air that's (sometimes well) below 10 degrees. At those temperatures air is
much denser and doesn't correlate well to the CFD or windtunnel work. F1
cars are designed to run at the air temperatures found at the tracks. It's
actually a rare opportunity for learning how the cars behave in those
conditions - especially those who were running pitot-tube / pressure sensor
arrays.

It was an interesting test - and not just because of the weather. It's been
a while since there was so much variation in car design. Still everything
could change before Melbourne (and often does).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
larkim
2018-03-02 15:42:13 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Love those sorts of comments.
Thank you.
Post by larkim
We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the aero"
just by looking at pictures.
Speak for yourself. I've seen quite a bit of video of the car as
well as stills and heard some very educated pinions (as well as
having my own).
Post by larkim
Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
Actually only race results will show it.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
LOL! You're right of course about the race results - "it's only testing"
I was reading your post literally though - "I really like the look of
the 2018 McLaren. They've done some excellent worh on the aero and
rear suspension especially" - i.e it read as if you were forming your
judgements about the aero and suspension on a visual look which
clearly ought not to be able to stand scrutiny otherwise the real
experts would have no need for CFD, flowvis paint, aero rakes etc etc
True.
I'm not saying that I could design an aero package for an F1 car but having
an active and curious mind and having watched the sport for many years now I
do think I have a feel for what is a well designed car. Aerodynamically
there are some fascinating cars on the grid this year - there seem to be two
main schools of thought on show.
I like how both McLaren and Sauber are trying to make a sort of ground
effects by using 'curtains' of airflow to partially seal the sides of the
underbody. Also some teams have gone for guiding air between the front
suspension while others have gone for guiding air above it into high sidepod
openings. McLarens rear wishbones are things of beauty (or will be if they
work as designed)
Post by larkim
I've read similar - those who are really closely exposed to it say the
chassis and aero are good, and that bodes well. My concern though is
that they are on a tyre 2secs faster than many others, so any speed
we're seeing might just be illusory.
I wasn't really basing my comments on the speed they got on those tyres,
more on the package as a whole.
Post by larkim
Having said that, its by no means certain that the tyre is 2sec
faster in these conditions, and "it is only testing".
Indeed. The tyres have had a big shake-up and, as they were saying up and
down the pits, they simply have no frame of reference for running cars in
air that's (sometimes well) below 10 degrees. At those temperatures air is
much denser and doesn't correlate well to the CFD or windtunnel work. F1
cars are designed to run at the air temperatures found at the tracks. It's
actually a rare opportunity for learning how the cars behave in those
conditions - especially those who were running pitot-tube / pressure sensor
arrays.
It was an interesting test - and not just because of the weather. It's been
a while since there was so much variation in car design. Still everything
could change before Melbourne (and often does).
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Interesting to see McLaren so far down the list on this consolidated
review in terms of speed trap - indeed, all the Renault engines propping
up the table at the foot (and Honda up there with the big boys!).

Wonder how representative this is of engine power? Would be galling for
McLaren to have moved again to the lowest power output engine, though
clearly as they're in the same ballpark as RBR that's not a bad place to
be in some respects.
~misfit~
2018-03-03 01:27:35 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Love those sorts of comments.
Thank you.
Post by larkim
We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the
aero" just by looking at pictures.
Speak for yourself. I've seen quite a bit of video of the car as
well as stills and heard some very educated pinions (as well as
having my own).
Post by larkim
Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
Actually only race results will show it.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
LOL! You're right of course about the race results - "it's only testing"
I was reading your post literally though - "I really like the look
of the 2018 McLaren. They've done some excellent worh on the aero
and rear suspension especially" - i.e it read as if you were
forming your judgements about the aero and suspension on a visual
look which clearly ought not to be able to stand scrutiny otherwise
the real experts would have no need for CFD, flowvis paint, aero
rakes etc etc
True.
I'm not saying that I could design an aero package for an F1 car but
having an active and curious mind and having watched the sport for
many years now I do think I have a feel for what is a well designed
car. Aerodynamically there are some fascinating cars on the grid
this year - there seem to be two main schools of thought on show.
I like how both McLaren and Sauber are trying to make a sort of
ground effects by using 'curtains' of airflow to partially seal the
sides of the underbody. Also some teams have gone for guiding air
between the front suspension while others have gone for guiding air
above it into high sidepod openings. McLarens rear wishbones are
things of beauty (or will be if they work as designed)
Post by larkim
I've read similar - those who are really closely exposed to it say
the chassis and aero are good, and that bodes well. My concern
though is that they are on a tyre 2secs faster than many others, so
any speed we're seeing might just be illusory.
I wasn't really basing my comments on the speed they got on those
tyres, more on the package as a whole.
Post by larkim
Having said that, its by no means certain that the tyre is 2sec
faster in these conditions, and "it is only testing".
Indeed. The tyres have had a big shake-up and, as they were saying
up and down the pits, they simply have no frame of reference for
running cars in air that's (sometimes well) below 10 degrees. At
those temperatures air is much denser and doesn't correlate well to
the CFD or windtunnel work. F1 cars are designed to run at the air
temperatures found at the tracks. It's actually a rare opportunity
for learning how the cars behave in those conditions - especially
those who were running pitot-tube / pressure sensor arrays.
It was an interesting test - and not just because of the weather.
It's been a while since there was so much variation in car design.
Still everything could change before Melbourne (and often does).
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Interesting to see McLaren so far down the list on this consolidated
review in terms of speed trap - indeed, all the Renault engines
propping up the table at the foot (and Honda up there with the big
boys!).
Wonder how representative this is of engine power? Would be galling
for McLaren to have moved again to the lowest power output engine,
though clearly as they're in the same ballpark as RBR that's not a
bad place to be in some respects.
Speed trap times aren't just about PU power - they are also about aero. It's
no good (just) being very fast in a straight line when most of the track is
corners.

I personally thought that McLaren moving away fron Honda at this late stage
was a mistake (but maybe driven by their star driver?). IMO there's no point
taking the pain of development only to give up after three years. Honda are
too big a company to stay the laughing-stock of Formula 1 for ever. Them
throwing millions and millions at better engineers for better results was
only a matter of time when the original in-house development didn't return
the results.

I reckon Fernando is a great driver but I think it was a mistake on McLarens
part letting him dictate policy. An exclusive contract with Honda when they
come good is better in the long run than a contract with an impatient aging
driver who wants to end his F1 career on a high note and is already looking
elsewhere for challenges (IMO).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2018-03-03 02:14:13 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
millions and millions
That is why you are in financial difficulties.
Edmund
2018-03-03 08:49:13 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Love those sorts of comments.
Thank you.
Post by larkim
We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the aero"
just by looking at pictures.
Speak for yourself. I've seen quite a bit of video of the car as
well as stills and heard some very educated pinions (as well as
having my own).
Post by larkim
Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
Actually only race results will show it.
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
LOL! You're right of course about the race results - "it's only testing"
I was reading your post literally though - "I really like the look of
the 2018 McLaren. They've done some excellent worh on the aero and
rear suspension especially" - i.e it read as if you were forming your
judgements about the aero and suspension on a visual look which
clearly ought not to be able to stand scrutiny otherwise the real
experts would have no need for CFD, flowvis paint, aero rakes etc etc
True.
I'm not saying that I could design an aero package for an F1 car but
having an active and curious mind and having watched the sport for
many years now I do think I have a feel for what is a well designed
car. Aerodynamically there are some fascinating cars on the grid this
year - there seem to be two main schools of thought on show.
I like how both McLaren and Sauber are trying to make a sort of ground
effects by using 'curtains' of airflow to partially seal the sides of
the underbody. Also some teams have gone for guiding air between the
front suspension while others have gone for guiding air above it into
high sidepod openings. McLarens rear wishbones are things of beauty
(or will be if they work as designed)
Post by larkim
I've read similar - those who are really closely exposed to it say
the chassis and aero are good, and that bodes well. My concern
though is that they are on a tyre 2secs faster than many others, so
any speed we're seeing might just be illusory.
I wasn't really basing my comments on the speed they got on those
tyres, more on the package as a whole.
Post by larkim
Having said that, its by no means certain that the tyre is 2sec
faster in these conditions, and "it is only testing".
Indeed. The tyres have had a big shake-up and, as they were saying up
and down the pits, they simply have no frame of reference for running
cars in air that's (sometimes well) below 10 degrees. At those
temperatures air is much denser and doesn't correlate well to the CFD
or windtunnel work. F1 cars are designed to run at the air
temperatures found at the tracks. It's actually a rare opportunity for
learning how the cars behave in those conditions - especially those
who were running pitot-tube / pressure sensor arrays.
It was an interesting test - and not just because of the weather. It's
been a while since there was so much variation in car design. Still
everything could change before Melbourne (and often does).
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has
a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Interesting to see McLaren so far down the list on this consolidated
review in terms of speed trap - indeed, all the Renault engines
propping up the table at the foot (and Honda up there with the big
boys!).
Wonder how representative this is of engine power? Would be galling
for McLaren to have moved again to the lowest power output engine,
though clearly as they're in the same ballpark as RBR that's not a bad
place to be in some respects.
Speed trap times aren't just about PU power - they are also about aero.
It's no good (just) being very fast in a straight line when most of the
track is corners.
I personally thought that McLaren moving away fron Honda at this late
stage was a mistake
You are right, they should have canceled it in 2014 when Honda could not
do 3 laps in about 4 days testing.

(but maybe driven by their star driver?).

No doubt it's Alonso's fault what else, McLaren was very happy with Honda
don't you think.

IMO
Post by ~misfit~
there's no point taking the pain of development only to give up after
three years.
And what about after one year?
Two years?
Post by ~misfit~
Honda are too big a company to stay the laughing-stock of
Formula 1 for ever. Them throwing millions and millions at better
engineers for better results was only a matter of time when the original
in-house development didn't return the results.
It never ever was a matter of engineers, it was and is a matter
of -lack off- organization /management.
Post by ~misfit~
I reckon Fernando is a great driver but I think it was a mistake on
McLarens part letting him dictate policy.
An exclusive contract with
Honda when they come good is better in the long run than a contract with
an impatient aging driver who wants to end his F1 career on a high note
and is already looking elsewhere for challenges (IMO).
You too have a right to vent your opinion, imo Alonso's weak point is
that is always was way too patient and waited and wasted far too much
time in both Ferrari and McHonda.
Promises promises but not deliver, that is what happened

Edmund
m***@gmail.com
2018-03-04 03:03:46 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
I personally thought that McLaren moving away fron Honda at this late stage
was a mistake (but maybe driven by their star driver?). IMO there's no point
taking the pain of development only to give up after three years. Honda are
too big a company to stay the laughing-stock of Formula 1 for ever. Them
throwing millions and millions at better engineers for better results was
only a matter of time when the original in-house development didn't return
the results.
I reckon Fernando is a great driver but I think it was a mistake on McLarens
part letting him dictate policy.
But did he? He clearly wasn't the only person within the McLaren team getting frustrated with Honda.
Post by ~misfit~
An exclusive contract with Honda when they
come good is better in the long run than a contract with an impatient aging
driver who wants to end his F1 career on a high note and is already looking
elsewhere for challenges (IMO).
But it wasn't just about him. If they stuck with Honda and Alonso left, they might have had a problem attracting another top driver. Sponsors too - how much could they charge and how attractive did they look when on a good day. one of the best drivers in the sport would work his bollocks off to get into the minor points positions?

They needed to make a new beginning.
Post by ~misfit~
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2018-03-02 16:15:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Love those sorts of comments.
Thank you.
Post by larkim
We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the aero"
just by looking at pictures.
Speak for yourself. I've seen quite a bit of video of the car as well as
stills and heard some very educated pinions (as well as having my own).
Post by larkim
Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
Actually only race results will show it.
Actually you have a chip on your shoulder.
alister
2018-03-02 12:27:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by larkim
Love those sorts of comments.
We really have no idea if they've done "excellent work on the aero" just
by looking at pictures. Only the CFD and test data will show that!!
"if it looks right it will fly right" Kelly Johnson
--
"I could send you a bone with a file in it, only you'd eat it."
(Moving Pictures)
bra
2018-03-04 22:07:09 UTC
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Post by alister
"if it looks right it will fly right" Kelly Johnson
Some wit at [Boeing, De Havilland, Vickers, Bristol, whatever] once said:

"Only when the weight of the paperwork equals the weight of the plane, will the plane fly."
t***@gmail.com
2018-03-05 02:46:43 UTC
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Post by bra
whatever]
shut up

Edmund
2018-03-02 15:18:56 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by larkim
Post by larkim
Despite the lack of a Honda in the back, they're down on miles already.
Obviously, implementing the Renault unit will have some challenges,
but with STR seeming to be able to bang out miles with a Honda in
the back, this does look a little concerning, no?
Decent miles today, will be a relief for them. Still opting for the
hyper soft tyre for artifical pace, but I suppose if it can be warmed
up and used quickly that has some benefits for testing. Odd that
no-one else is running it though.
When it's only 10 degrees it makes sense to opt for a soft compound -
especially when you've got sponsors to attract (something most of the other
teams don't ned to worry about quite as much).
I really like the look of the 2018 McLaren. They've done some excellent worh
on the aero and rear suspension especially. I'm expecting them to at least
be on par with RBR, maybe even ahead of them by a few races in.
On par alone seems like a major achievement to me.
Red Bull probably has the best chassis for many years in a row.

Edmund
RzR
2018-03-04 09:48:50 UTC
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Post by larkim
Despite the lack of a Honda in the back, they're down on miles already.
Obviously, implementing the Renault unit will have some challenges, but with
STR seeming to be able to bang out miles with a Honda in the back, this does
look a little concerning, no?
mclaren turned into a joke once the great ron dennis and hamilton
left...all they got this clown alonso prancing around like he did
something...
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