Discussion:
Vettel full of himself as ever.
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~misfit~
2018-08-31 00:35:51 UTC
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From
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html

"2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in terms of
performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you want to be closer. We
were not and we lost a place, but in terms of setting up ourselves for the
future 2016 was more important year so far since I was with team."

I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks that he
is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope Mercedes trounce him
this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Alan Baker
2018-08-31 00:43:27 UTC
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On 2018-08-30 5:35 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
> From
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>
> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in terms of
> performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you want to be closer. We
> were not and we lost a place, but in terms of setting up ourselves for the
> future 2016 was more important year so far since I was with team."
>
> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks that he
> is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope Mercedes trounce him
> this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>

I think you're inferring something that isn't there.

What is the overt arrogance in saying that the team has gotten better?

He didn't so much as imply that he was the reason it got better, he just
said that he thinks 2016 was the most important year to that improvement
that he can talk about...

...because he can't really talk about years he wasn't part of the team.
jtees4
2018-08-31 15:45:29 UTC
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On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:43:27 -0700, Alan Baker <***@ness.biz> wrote:

>On 2018-08-30 5:35 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> From
>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>
>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in terms of
>> performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you want to be closer. We
>> were not and we lost a place, but in terms of setting up ourselves for the
>> future 2016 was more important year so far since I was with team."
>>
>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks that he
>> is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope Mercedes trounce him
>> this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>>
>
>I think you're inferring something that isn't there.
>
>What is the overt arrogance in saying that the team has gotten better?
>
>He didn't so much as imply that he was the reason it got better, he just
>said that he thinks 2016 was the most important year to that improvement
>that he can talk about...
>
>...because he can't really talk about years he wasn't part of the team.

That's exactly as I took it too. And he was correct.
~misfit~
2018-09-02 02:36:05 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet jtees4 wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:43:27 -0700, Alan Baker <***@ness.biz> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-08-30 5:35 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> From
>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>
>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
>>> want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
>>> setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
>>> far since I was with team."
>>>
>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>>>
>>
>> I think you're inferring something that isn't there.
>>
>> What is the overt arrogance in saying that the team has gotten
>> better?
>>
>> He didn't so much as imply that he was the reason it got better, he
>> just said that he thinks 2016 was the most important year to that
>> improvement that he can talk about...
>>
>> ...because he can't really talk about years he wasn't part of the
>> team.
>
> That's exactly as I took it too. And he was correct.

Mea culpa. I mistakenly thought 2016 was the year Vettel joined Ferrari in
the moment (and up until I just thought "hang on..." and checked).

It probably won't be the last time I make a mistake....
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2018-08-31 01:28:43 UTC
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On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 6:35:55 PM UTC-6, ~misfit~ wrote:

> I've never liked overt arrogance.

You don't like fuck all.
Some people don't like fucking cunts like you.
Bigbird
2018-08-31 04:38:51 UTC
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~misfit~ wrote:

> From
>
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>
> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in terms
> of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you want to be
> closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of setting up
> ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so far since I
> was with team."
>
> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).

Yes, we know you hate Vettel.
~misfit~
2018-09-02 02:02:24 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet Bigbird wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> From
>>
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>
>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in terms
>> of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you want to be
>> closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of setting up
>> ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so far since I
>> was with team."
>>
>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>
> Yes, we know you hate Vettel.

Hate is a very strong word that I rarely use. I assume you used it in an
attempt to start something?
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
DumbedDownUSA
2018-09-02 17:42:57 UTC
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~misfit~ wrote:

> Once upon a time on usenet Bigbird wrote:
> > ~misfit~ wrote:
> >
> > > From
> > >
> >
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
> > >
> > > "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
> > > terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
> > > want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms
> > > of setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important
> > > year so far since I was with team."
> > >
> > > I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he
> > > thinks that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I
> > > hope Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets
> > > second).
> >
> > Yes, we know you hate Vettel.
>
> Hate is a very strong word that I rarely use. I assume you used it in
> an attempt to start something?

No. I am describing your long time attitude towards Vettel; you started
that.

You know full well I don't give a shit for your diatribe. I say it the
way I see it and move on.

--
Trump averages eight falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
~misfit~
2018-09-03 03:48:52 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> Once upon a time on usenet Bigbird wrote:
>>> ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>
>>>> From
>>>>
>>>
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>>
>>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
>>>> want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms
>>>> of setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important
>>>> year so far since I was with team."
>>>>
>>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he
>>>> thinks that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I
>>>> hope Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets
>>>> second).
>>>
>>> Yes, we know you hate Vettel.
>>
>> Hate is a very strong word that I rarely use. I assume you used it in
>> an attempt to start something?
>
> No. I am describing your long time attitude towards Vettel; you
> started that.

Interesting. Are you Bigbird in different feathers?

> You know full well I don't give a shit for your diatribe. I say it the
> way I see it and move on.

Bye...
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
DumbedDownUSA
2018-09-03 06:17:06 UTC
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~misfit~ wrote:

> Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
> > ~misfit~ wrote:
> >
> > > Once upon a time on usenet Bigbird wrote:
> > > > ~misfit~ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
> > > > >
> > > > > "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great
> > > > > in terms of performance. We finished second in 2015.
> > > > > Naturally you want to be closer. We were not and we lost a
> > > > > place, but in terms of setting up ourselves for the future
> > > > > 2016 was more important year so far since I was with team."
> > > > >
> > > > > I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he
> > > > > thinks that he is the most important person at Ferrari by
> > > > > far. I hope Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and
> > > > > Kimi gets second).
> > > >
> > > > Yes, we know you hate Vettel.
> > >
> > > Hate is a very strong word that I rarely use. I assume you used
> > > it in an attempt to start something?
> >
> > No. I am describing your long time attitude towards Vettel; you
> > started that.
>
> Interesting. Are you Bigbird in different feathers?
>

Yup, I thought that was known. I use this nym to wind up a few far
right Trumpeters and regularly forget to switchback.

I shows how observant you are.

> > You know full well I don't give a shit for your diatribe. I say it
> > the way I see it and move on.
>
> Bye...

Exactly, :)

--
Trump averages eight falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
~misfit~
2018-09-03 06:26:25 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
>>> ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>
>>>> Once upon a time on usenet Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great
>>>>>> in terms of performance. We finished second in 2015.
>>>>>> Naturally you want to be closer. We were not and we lost a
>>>>>> place, but in terms of setting up ourselves for the future
>>>>>> 2016 was more important year so far since I was with team."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he
>>>>>> thinks that he is the most important person at Ferrari by
>>>>>> far. I hope Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and
>>>>>> Kimi gets second).
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, we know you hate Vettel.
>>>>
>>>> Hate is a very strong word that I rarely use. I assume you used
>>>> it in an attempt to start something?
>>>
>>> No. I am describing your long time attitude towards Vettel; you
>>> started that.
>>
>> Interesting. Are you Bigbird in different feathers?
>>
>
> Yup, I thought that was known.

I've seen people refer to this nym as Bigbird but that sort of accusation
goes on a bit and haven't been sufficeintly interested to follow up with an
investigation.

> I use this nym to wind up a few far
> right Trumpeters and regularly forget to switchback.

Ok.

> I shows how observant you are.

This might come as a surprise but you and your sockpuppets aren't that high
on my list of things to observe. No offence intended, merely truth.

>>> You know full well I don't give a shit for your diatribe. I say it
>>> the way I see it and move on.
>>
>> Bye...
>
> Exactly, :)

LOL.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Sir Tim
2018-08-31 07:34:18 UTC
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~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> From
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>
> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in terms of
> performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you want to be closer. We
> were not and we lost a place, but in terms of setting up ourselves for the
> future 2016 was more important year so far since I was with team."
>
> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks that he
> is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope Mercedes trounce him
> this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).

Sorry, where is the “overt arrogance” in that statement?

--
Sir Tim
DumbedDownUSA
2018-08-31 08:48:07 UTC
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Sir Tim wrote:

> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > From
> >
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
> >
> > "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
> > terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
> > want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
> > setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
> > far since I was with team."
> >
> > I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
> > that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
> > Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>
> Sorry, where is the “overt arrogance” in that statement?

If you try really hard you can misinterpret "since I was with team".
You have to have a certain mindset in the first place to do so though;
you can't see it unless you are looking for it.

--
Trump averages eight falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
Alan Baker
2018-08-31 15:09:08 UTC
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On 2018-08-31 1:48 AM, DumbedDownUSA wrote:
> Sir Tim wrote:
>
>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> From
>>>
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>
>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
>>> want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
>>> setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
>>> far since I was with team."
>>>
>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>>
>> Sorry, where is the “overt arrogance” in that statement?
>
> If you try really hard you can misinterpret "since I was with team".
> You have to have a certain mindset in the first place to do so though;
> you can't see it unless you are looking for it.
>

Precisely.
~misfit~
2018-09-02 02:28:25 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
> Sir Tim wrote:
>
>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> From
>>>
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>
>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
>>> want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
>>> setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
>>> far since I was with team."
>>>
>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>>
>> Sorry, where is the "overt arrogance" in that statement?
>
> If you try really hard you can misinterpret "since I was with team".
> You have to have a certain mindset in the first place to do so though;
> you can't see it unless you are looking for it.

So your contention is that he means 2016 was more important than 2017 and
2018 (and 2015?) "in terms of setting ourselves up for the future"? I guess
that's self-evident and as such pointless to say for 2017 and 2018 as they
come after 2016. However the only other year he mentioned was 2015 so the
obvious take away from his statement is that his presence in the team was
key to their current success.

It's called comprehension. He's saying that a year in which Ferrari dropped
a place in the WCC standings over the previous year was better for the
future of the *team* because he joined them.

That might well be the case but for him to say it is, by any standard
arrogant. If Arrivebene (sp?) said it w/r/t Vettel then that would be fine.
Complimenting another is the antithesis of arrogance (which I mentioned I
disliked yeah?).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
~misfit~
2018-09-02 02:40:35 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
>> Sir Tim wrote:
>>
>>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> From
>>>>
>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>>
>>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
>>>> want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
>>>> setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
>>>> far since I was with team."
>>>>
>>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>>>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>>>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>>>
>>> Sorry, where is the "overt arrogance" in that statement?
>>
>> If you try really hard you can misinterpret "since I was with team".
>> You have to have a certain mindset in the first place to do so
>> though; you can't see it unless you are looking for it.
>
> So your contention is that he means 2016 was more important than 2017
> and 2018 (and 2015?) "in terms of setting ourselves up for the
> future"? I guess that's self-evident and as such pointless to say for
> 2017 and 2018 as they come after 2016. However the only other year he
> mentioned was 2015 so the obvious take away from his statement is
> that his presence in the team was key to their current success.
>
> It's called comprehension. He's saying that a year in which Ferrari
> dropped a place in the WCC standings over the previous year was
> better for the future of the *team* because he joined them.
>
> That might well be the case but for him to say it is, by any standard
> arrogant. If Arrivebene (sp?) said it w/r/t Vettel then that would be
> fine. Complimenting another is the antithesis of arrogance (which I
> mentioned I disliked yeah?).

Mea culpa. I mistakenly thought 2016 was the year Vettel joined Ferrari in
the moment (and up until I just thought "hang on..." and checked).

It probably won't be the last time I make a mistake....
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Alan Baker
2018-09-03 00:42:17 UTC
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On 2018-09-01 7:40 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
>>> Sir Tim wrote:
>>>
>>>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> From
>>>>>
>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>>>
>>>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
>>>>> want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
>>>>> setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
>>>>> far since I was with team."
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>>>>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>>>>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, where is the "overt arrogance" in that statement?
>>>
>>> If you try really hard you can misinterpret "since I was with team".
>>> You have to have a certain mindset in the first place to do so
>>> though; you can't see it unless you are looking for it.
>>
>> So your contention is that he means 2016 was more important than 2017
>> and 2018 (and 2015?) "in terms of setting ourselves up for the
>> future"? I guess that's self-evident and as such pointless to say for
>> 2017 and 2018 as they come after 2016. However the only other year he
>> mentioned was 2015 so the obvious take away from his statement is
>> that his presence in the team was key to their current success.
>>
>> It's called comprehension. He's saying that a year in which Ferrari
>> dropped a place in the WCC standings over the previous year was
>> better for the future of the *team* because he joined them.
>>
>> That might well be the case but for him to say it is, by any standard
>> arrogant. If Arrivebene (sp?) said it w/r/t Vettel then that would be
>> fine. Complimenting another is the antithesis of arrogance (which I
>> mentioned I disliked yeah?).
>
> Mea culpa. I mistakenly thought 2016 was the year Vettel joined Ferrari in
> the moment (and up until I just thought "hang on..." and checked).
>
> It probably won't be the last time I make a mistake....
>

Spoken like a gentleman, sir!
geoff
2018-09-03 02:10:01 UTC
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On 3/09/2018 12:42 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2018-09-01 7:40 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:

>>
>> It probably won't be the last time I make a mistake....
>>
>
> Spoken like a gentleman, sir!

I thought that I'd made a mistake once. But I was in error ...

geoff
DumbedDownUSA
2018-09-02 17:46:11 UTC
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~misfit~ wrote:

> Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
> > Sir Tim wrote:
> >
> >>~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > From
> > > >
> >
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
> > > >
> > > > "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
> > > > terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
> > > > want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in
> > > > terms of setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more
> > > > important year so far since I was with team."
> > > >
> > > > I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he
> > > > thinks that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far.
> > > > I hope Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi
> > > > gets second).
> > >
> > > Sorry, where is the "overt arrogance" in that statement?
> >
> > If you try really hard you can misinterpret "since I was with team".
> > You have to have a certain mindset in the first place to do so
> > though; you can't see it unless you are looking for it.
>
> So your contention

<snip blah blah blah>

I don't have a contention. I asserted that you made a
misinterpretation, deliberately or otherwise, because you have a thing
about dissing certain drivers. There is no contention just fact.

--
Trump averages eight falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
~misfit~
2018-09-03 03:51:48 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
>>> Sir Tim wrote:
>>>
>>>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> From
>>>>>
>>>
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>>>
>>>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
>>>>> want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in
>>>>> terms of setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more
>>>>> important year so far since I was with team."
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he
>>>>> thinks that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far.
>>>>> I hope Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi
>>>>> gets second).
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, where is the "overt arrogance" in that statement?
>>>
>>> If you try really hard you can misinterpret "since I was with team".
>>> You have to have a certain mindset in the first place to do so
>>> though; you can't see it unless you are looking for it.
>>
>> So your contention
>
> <snip blah blah blah>
>
> I don't have a contention. I asserted that you made a
> misinterpretation, deliberately or otherwise, because you have a thing
> about dissing certain drivers. There is no contention just fact.

It was "otherwise" and I owned it.

I don't like drivers who can't control their anger on track. It's not my
fault that it seems to be drivers with surnames that begin with 'V' (other
than Stoffel). My dislike of Vettel's driving started when he drove into the
side of Webber (then acted dumb) and he's done nothing since to show he's
changed.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Alan Baker
2018-09-03 00:41:48 UTC
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On 2018-09-01 7:28 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet DumbedDownUSA wrote:
>> Sir Tim wrote:
>>
>>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> From
>>>>
>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>>
>>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you
>>>> want to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
>>>> setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
>>>> far since I was with team."
>>>>
>>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>>>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>>>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>>>
>>> Sorry, where is the "overt arrogance" in that statement?
>>
>> If you try really hard you can misinterpret "since I was with team".
>> You have to have a certain mindset in the first place to do so though;
>> you can't see it unless you are looking for it.
>
> So your contention is that he means 2016 was more important than 2017 and
> 2018 (and 2015?) "in terms of setting ourselves up for the future"? I guess
> that's self-evident and as such pointless to say for 2017 and 2018 as they
> come after 2016. However the only other year he mentioned was 2015 so the
> obvious take away from his statement is that his presence in the team was
> key to their current success.

Nope. That is in no way an obvious takeaway except to someone with a
preconception about Vettel.

>
> It's called comprehension. He's saying that a year in which Ferrari dropped
> a place in the WCC standings over the previous year was better for the
> future of the *team* because he joined them.

No. He was not in any way saying that.

>
> That might well be the case but for him to say it is, by any standard
> arrogant. If Arrivebene (sp?) said it w/r/t Vettel then that would be fine.
> Complimenting another is the antithesis of arrogance (which I mentioned I
> disliked yeah?).
>
~misfit~
2018-09-02 02:01:32 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet Sir Tim wrote:
> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> From
>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>
>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you want
>> to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
>> setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
>> far since I was with team."
>>
>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>
> Sorry, where is the "overt arrogance" in that statement?

Comprehension issues? "In terms of setting ourseleves up for the future 2016
was the MORE IMPORTANT year so far SINCE I WAS WITH THE TEAM." (Capitalised
the relevant bits for you.)

I liked how, on being told Kimi beat him to pole over the radio he said
"we'll talk later". Any guesses on what the talk will be? I think it'll be
"I helped Kimi to pole so if needed he can help me to the win". Even though
Kimi's lap was much tidier than Vettels and they both had fast cars in front
of them.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
~misfit~
2018-09-02 02:41:00 UTC
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Once upon a time on usenet ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet Sir Tim wrote:
>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> From
>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>
>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you want
>>> to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
>>> setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
>>> far since I was with team."
>>>
>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>>
>> Sorry, where is the "overt arrogance" in that statement?
>
> Comprehension issues? "In terms of setting ourseleves up for the
> future 2016 was the MORE IMPORTANT year so far SINCE I WAS WITH THE
> TEAM." (Capitalised the relevant bits for you.)

Mea culpa. I mistakenly thought 2016 was the year Vettel joined Ferrari in
the moment (and up until I just thought "hang on..." and checked).

It probably won't be the last time I make a mistake....

--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
> I liked how, on being told Kimi beat him to pole over the radio he
> said "we'll talk later". Any guesses on what the talk will be? I
> think it'll be "I helped Kimi to pole so if needed he can help me to
> the win". Even though Kimi's lap was much tidier than Vettels and
> they both had fast cars in front of them.
Alan Baker
2018-09-03 00:40:30 UTC
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Raw Message
On 2018-09-01 7:01 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet Sir Tim wrote:
>> ~misfit~ <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> From
>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/thursday-hot-topic-why-monza-ferrari-springboard-f1.html
>>>
>>> "2016 was a key year for us," said Vettel. "It was not great in
>>> terms of performance. We finished second in 2015. Naturally you want
>>> to be closer. We were not and we lost a place, but in terms of
>>> setting up ourselves for the future 2016 was more important year so
>>> far since I was with team."
>>>
>>> I've never liked overt arrogance. Going by that statement he thinks
>>> that he is the most important person at Ferrari by far. I hope
>>> Mercedes trounce him this weekend at Monza (and Kimi gets second).
>>
>> Sorry, where is the "overt arrogance" in that statement?
>
> Comprehension issues? "In terms of setting ourseleves up for the future 2016
> was the MORE IMPORTANT year so far SINCE I WAS WITH THE TEAM." (Capitalised
> the relevant bits for you.)

Yes. He's talking about what year he feels to be the most important to
the team's development...

...DURING THE TIME HE'S BEEN WITH FERRARI!

>
> I liked how, on being told Kimi beat him to pole over the radio he said
> "we'll talk later". Any guesses on what the talk will be? I think it'll be
> "I helped Kimi to pole so if needed he can help me to the win". Even though
> Kimi's lap was much tidier than Vettels and they both had fast cars in front
> of them.
>
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