Discussion:
The 500
(too old to reply)
Bobster
2017-05-29 16:15:34 UTC
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I confess! I enjoyed it.

Not so much the track, but the racing and the drama. It served up both, and Alonso played a leading role, consistently running at or near the front, racing hard and smart, and putting in some great passing moves.

He wasn't perfect. He seemed to struggle with the rolling start and on some of the restarts. He lost places early on, dropping to 9th or 10th from the start, and lost out badly again on the last restart he took. But he dropped back to just behind Sato and so maybe...

It's a technical race with a lot of tactical interest. And you can play the long game. It was interesting to see the strategies play out towards the end of the race. Also interesting was the way the Andretti team made use of having so many cars in the leading pack for most of the race - at one time swapping two cars to get an idea of how they would react to a change from dirty to clean air (and, I presume, vice versa).

I'm not sure I like the track, and I found the quallies, with each car running alone, pretty boring. But the racing was a different matter.

It was a long race. I wasn't often bored.

Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very quickly. I suspect there were multiple teams at different points of the track. Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the wall, bounced off and damn near hit a truck that was parked between the track edge and the barriers. That would have been nasty.

Dixon's crash was terrifying, but the aftermath was a tribute to all the hard work that has been put into the safety aspects of racing cars.
News
2017-05-29 16:48:04 UTC
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Post by Bobster
I confess! I enjoyed it.
Not so much the track, but the racing and the drama. It served up both, and Alonso played a leading role, consistently running at or near the front, racing hard and smart, and putting in some great passing moves.
He wasn't perfect. He seemed to struggle with the rolling start and on some of the restarts. He lost places early on, dropping to 9th or 10th from the start, and lost out badly again on the last restart he took. But he dropped back to just behind Sato and so maybe...
It's a technical race with a lot of tactical interest. And you can play the long game. It was interesting to see the strategies play out towards the end of the race. Also interesting was the way the Andretti team made use of having so many cars in the leading pack for most of the race - at one time swapping two cars to get an idea of how they would react to a change from dirty to clean air (and, I presume, vice versa).
I'm not sure I like the track, and I found the quallies, with each car running alone, pretty boring. But the racing was a different matter.
It was a long race. I wasn't often bored.
Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very quickly. I suspect there were multiple teams at different points of the track. Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the wall, bounced off and damn near hit a truck that was parked between the track edge and the barriers. That would have been nasty.
Dixon's crash was terrifying, but the aftermath was a tribute to all the hard work that has been put into the safety aspects of racing cars.
+1 Agreed

Maybe Louise will give it a try in 2018, since his Merc is now
approaching Fernando's F1 Honda in competitiveness.

Then again, since he's not impressed...

Great 'issues' discussion on the FB Historic Racing Cars group. LOL!
D Munz
2017-05-29 17:12:00 UTC
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"Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very quickly. I suspect there were multiple teams at different points of the track. Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the wall, bounced off and damn near hit a truck that was parked between the track edge and the barriers. That would have been nasty."

That was the safety truck rolling to the other half of that accident. They were pulling out and managed to stop. And you are correct, that would have been nasty.

FWIW
DLM
jtees4
2017-05-29 19:19:32 UTC
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Post by Bobster
I confess! I enjoyed it.
Not so much the track, but the racing and the drama. It served up both, and Alonso played a leading role, consistently running at or near the front, racing hard and smart, and putting in some great passing moves.
He wasn't perfect. He seemed to struggle with the rolling start and on some of the restarts. He lost places early on, dropping to 9th or 10th from the start, and lost out badly again on the last restart he took. But he dropped back to just behind Sato and so maybe...
It's a technical race with a lot of tactical interest. And you can play the long game. It was interesting to see the strategies play out towards the end of the race. Also interesting was the way the Andretti team made use of having so many cars in the leading pack for most of the race - at one time swapping two cars to get an idea of how they would react to a change from dirty to clean air (and, I presume, vice versa).
I'm not sure I like the track, and I found the quallies, with each car running alone, pretty boring. But the racing was a different matter.
It was a long race. I wasn't often bored.
Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very quickly. I suspect there were multiple teams at different points of the track. Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the wall, bounced off and damn near hit a truck that was parked between the track edge and the barriers. That would have been nasty.
Dixon's crash was terrifying, but the aftermath was a tribute to all the hard work that has been put into the safety aspects of racing cars.
I am 59 and American. As a kid the Indy 500 was the highlight of my
year in sports. Loved it. Big Andretti fan (that would be Mario,
Michael after Mario retired...but not as good). Always liked F! but
back in the day it was not readily available in any meaningful way
that I knew of in the USA. Anyway, when CART and INDY split....I
became a huge CART fan and INDY hater. I also started watching F1 as
it became available on TV here. When CART went away I became a huge F1
fan and remain that way today (Way to go Ferrari I might add, for
Monaco dominance). Bottom line is, Fernando brought me back....first
one I've watched in a long long time and only to see him. It would
have been great if he won, but he had a real good showing. And man do
I hate the "fenders" on the rear wheels. From the front the cars look
like they have full bodywork. Horrible, open wheen should be open
wheel period. Oh well. I hope to see many more F1 guys going to Indy.
geoff
2017-05-29 20:05:14 UTC
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Post by jtees4
I hate the "fenders" on the rear wheels. From the front the cars look
like they have full bodywork. Horrible, open wheen should be open
wheel period. Oh well. I hope to see many more F1 guys going to Indy.
Yeah, they really are butt-ugly. Or "curiosly attractive" as our Tgate
would say.

geoff
Sir Tim
2017-05-29 20:41:26 UTC
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Post by jtees4
Post by Bobster
I confess! I enjoyed it.
Not so much the track, but the racing and the drama. It served up both,
and Alonso played a leading role, consistently running at or near the
front, racing hard and smart, and putting in some great passing moves.
He wasn't perfect. He seemed to struggle with the rolling start and on
some of the restarts. He lost places early on, dropping to 9th or 10th
from the start, and lost out badly again on the last restart he took.
But he dropped back to just behind Sato and so maybe...
It's a technical race with a lot of tactical interest. And you can play
the long game. It was interesting to see the strategies play out towards
the end of the race. Also interesting was the way the Andretti team made
use of having so many cars in the leading pack for most of the race - at
one time swapping two cars to get an idea of how they would react to a
change from dirty to clean air (and, I presume, vice versa).
I'm not sure I like the track, and I found the quallies, with each car
running alone, pretty boring. But the racing was a different matter.
It was a long race. I wasn't often bored.
Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very quickly. I
suspect there were multiple teams at different points of the track.
Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the wall, bounced off
and damn near hit a truck that was parked between the track edge and the
barriers. That would have been nasty.
Dixon's crash was terrifying, but the aftermath was a tribute to all the
hard work that has been put into the safety aspects of racing cars.
I am 59 and American. As a kid the Indy 500 was the highlight of my
year in sports. Loved it. Big Andretti fan (that would be Mario,
Michael after Mario retired...but not as good). Always liked F! but
back in the day it was not readily available in any meaningful way
that I knew of in the USA. Anyway, when CART and INDY split....I
became a huge CART fan and INDY hater. I also started watching F1 as
it became available on TV here. When CART went away I became a huge F1
fan and remain that way today (Way to go Ferrari I might add, for
Monaco dominance). Bottom line is, Fernando brought me back....first
one I've watched in a long long time and only to see him. It would
have been great if he won, but he had a real good showing. And man do
I hate the "fenders" on the rear wheels. From the front the cars look
like they have full bodywork. Horrible, open wheen should be open
wheel period. Oh well. I hope to see many more F1 guys going to Indy.
I'm a 78 year-old Brit who has been an F1 fan since the 1950s. Back then of
course Indycars were Offy-powered, ladder-framed "roadsters". Then, in
1961, Jack Brabham appeared with a diminutive, rear-engined Cooper, which
attracted a lot of merriment from Brickyard regulars. Until, that is, it
finished 9th despite some lengthy pitstops. It was the beginning of the end
of roadsters and the revolution was complete when Colin Chapman applied
himself to designing an Indy car (with offset wheels IIRC) for Jimmy Clark.

I didn't watch Indy this year but I've seen it a couple of times on
American TV, when I happened to be in the US, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I
particularly like all the traditions: "Gentlemen (now 'drivers' of course)
start your engines" etc. Europeans often fail to realize just how
tradition-minded most Americans are - the rituals of baseball haven't
changed for a hundred years.

It's easy for snooty F1 fans to dismiss Indy because guys like Sato and
Chilton, who were not wildly successful in F1, are able to succeed, but
this is to overlook the fact that a whole different set of skills are
involved, to say nothing of sheer courage. And the racing is exciting; it's
difficult to deny that the danger of Oval racing adds a frisson that F1 no
longer has. I'm hoping that, with F1 under Liberty Media management, we
will see a lot more fans interested in both series.
--
Sir Tim
jtees4
2017-05-29 23:17:36 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by jtees4
Post by Bobster
I confess! I enjoyed it.
Not so much the track, but the racing and the drama. It served up both,
and Alonso played a leading role, consistently running at or near the
front, racing hard and smart, and putting in some great passing moves.
He wasn't perfect. He seemed to struggle with the rolling start and on
some of the restarts. He lost places early on, dropping to 9th or 10th
from the start, and lost out badly again on the last restart he took.
But he dropped back to just behind Sato and so maybe...
It's a technical race with a lot of tactical interest. And you can play
the long game. It was interesting to see the strategies play out towards
the end of the race. Also interesting was the way the Andretti team made
use of having so many cars in the leading pack for most of the race - at
one time swapping two cars to get an idea of how they would react to a
change from dirty to clean air (and, I presume, vice versa).
I'm not sure I like the track, and I found the quallies, with each car
running alone, pretty boring. But the racing was a different matter.
It was a long race. I wasn't often bored.
Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very quickly. I
suspect there were multiple teams at different points of the track.
Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the wall, bounced off
and damn near hit a truck that was parked between the track edge and the
barriers. That would have been nasty.
Dixon's crash was terrifying, but the aftermath was a tribute to all the
hard work that has been put into the safety aspects of racing cars.
I am 59 and American. As a kid the Indy 500 was the highlight of my
year in sports. Loved it. Big Andretti fan (that would be Mario,
Michael after Mario retired...but not as good). Always liked F! but
back in the day it was not readily available in any meaningful way
that I knew of in the USA. Anyway, when CART and INDY split....I
became a huge CART fan and INDY hater. I also started watching F1 as
it became available on TV here. When CART went away I became a huge F1
fan and remain that way today (Way to go Ferrari I might add, for
Monaco dominance). Bottom line is, Fernando brought me back....first
one I've watched in a long long time and only to see him. It would
have been great if he won, but he had a real good showing. And man do
I hate the "fenders" on the rear wheels. From the front the cars look
like they have full bodywork. Horrible, open wheen should be open
wheel period. Oh well. I hope to see many more F1 guys going to Indy.
I'm a 78 year-old Brit who has been an F1 fan since the 1950s. Back then of
course Indycars were Offy-powered, ladder-framed "roadsters". Then, in
1961, Jack Brabham appeared with a diminutive, rear-engined Cooper, which
attracted a lot of merriment from Brickyard regulars. Until, that is, it
finished 9th despite some lengthy pitstops. It was the beginning of the end
of roadsters and the revolution was complete when Colin Chapman applied
himself to designing an Indy car (with offset wheels IIRC) for Jimmy Clark.
I didn't watch Indy this year but I've seen it a couple of times on
American TV, when I happened to be in the US, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I
particularly like all the traditions: "Gentlemen (now 'drivers' of course)
start your engines" etc. Europeans often fail to realize just how
tradition-minded most Americans are - the rituals of baseball haven't
changed for a hundred years.
It's easy for snooty F1 fans to dismiss Indy because guys like Sato and
Chilton, who were not wildly successful in F1, are able to succeed, but
this is to overlook the fact that a whole different set of skills are
involved, to say nothing of sheer courage. And the racing is exciting; it's
difficult to deny that the danger of Oval racing adds a frisson that F1 no
longer has. I'm hoping that, with F1 under Liberty Media management, we
will see a lot more fans interested in both series.
F1 got me involved in other things too.....a little too late, but GO
ARSENAL!!!!
Mark Jackson
2017-05-29 23:49:16 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by jtees4
I am 59 and American. As a kid the Indy 500 was the highlight of
my year in sports. Loved it. Big Andretti fan (that would be
Mario, Michael after Mario retired...but not as good). Always liked
F! but back in the day it was not readily available in any
meaningful way that I knew of in the USA.
So "as a kid" would be early sixties for you. I'm not quite a decade
older, grew up in the Los Angeles area but a maternal great-uncle in
Indiana sent us a month-of-May subscription to the /Indianapolis Star/
every year so got saturation coverage of the 500. Plus Mom and Dad
actually knew Sam Hanks, and Parnelli Jones got his start at Gardena
Raceway, where the weekly races were covered by one of the several
non-network local TV stations, KTLA channel 5. (Parnelli of course went
on to greater things, whereas another Gardena regular with a memorable
name, "Black Widow" Snyder, did not.)
Post by Sir Tim
I'm a 78 year-old Brit who has been an F1 fan since the 1950s. Back
then of course Indycars were Offy-powered, ladder-framed "roadsters".
Then, in 1961, Jack Brabham appeared with a diminutive, rear-engined
Cooper, which attracted a lot of merriment from Brickyard regulars.
Until, that is, it finished 9th despite some lengthy pitstops. It was
the beginning of the end of roadsters and the revolution was complete
when Colin Chapman applied himself to designing an Indy car (with
offset wheels IIRC) for Jimmy Clark.
For some reason Brabham's 1961 foray didn't register with me, but by
1962 I had begun following* F1 and was very interested in the rear
engine revolution at Indy. Between the radio-only and live broadcast TV
eras there was a period where one could watch the 500 live in selected
theaters. One of those years was 1964 and I vividly remember the ugly
crash that killed local Southern California driver Dave MacDonald (in
one of Mickey Thompson's ill-conceived roller skates) and veteran Eddie
Sachs. (You may recall that in 1963 Parnelli Jones held on to win ahead
of Jim Clark despite leaking oil for the last 20 laps. His being
allowed to continue without being black-flagged was controversial and in
fact Sachs blamed his late crash on Jones' oil; they famously had a
fistfight over the issue the day after the race.)

*"Following" F1 in those days meant calling the sports desk of the /Los
Angeles Times/ late on Sunday to get someone to tell me the first few
finishers - results might or might not appear in tiny type in Monday's
sports section - then waiting a couple of months for Henry N. Manney
III's excellent report in /Road & Track/.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Any chief-of-staff who isn’t prepared to confiscate
Trump’s Android, delete his Twitter account, and crush
sedatives into his food will fail to produce order.
- Eric Levitz
bra
2017-05-30 03:08:54 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
For some reason Brabham's 1961 foray didn't register with me, but by
1962 I had begun following* F1 and was very interested in the rear
engine revolution at Indy.
In 1962 in England I was listening to the radio in my pal's kitchen, as Roger Ward won his second Indy 500. Friends and family thought we were nuts, listening to "American racing".
jtees4
2017-05-30 13:27:15 UTC
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On Mon, 29 May 2017 19:49:16 -0400, Mark Jackson
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
Post by jtees4
I am 59 and American. As a kid the Indy 500 was the highlight of
my year in sports. Loved it. Big Andretti fan (that would be
Mario, Michael after Mario retired...but not as good). Always liked
F! but back in the day it was not readily available in any
meaningful way that I knew of in the USA.
So "as a kid" would be early sixties for you. I'm not quite a decade
older, grew up in the Los Angeles area but a maternal great-uncle in
Indiana sent us a month-of-May subscription to the /Indianapolis Star/
every year so got saturation coverage of the 500. Plus Mom and Dad
actually knew Sam Hanks, and Parnelli Jones got his start at Gardena
Raceway, where the weekly races were covered by one of the several
non-network local TV stations, KTLA channel 5. (Parnelli of course went
on to greater things, whereas another Gardena regular with a memorable
name, "Black Widow" Snyder, did not.)
Post by Sir Tim
I'm a 78 year-old Brit who has been an F1 fan since the 1950s. Back
then of course Indycars were Offy-powered, ladder-framed "roadsters".
Then, in 1961, Jack Brabham appeared with a diminutive, rear-engined
Cooper, which attracted a lot of merriment from Brickyard regulars.
Until, that is, it finished 9th despite some lengthy pitstops. It was
the beginning of the end of roadsters and the revolution was complete
when Colin Chapman applied himself to designing an Indy car (with
offset wheels IIRC) for Jimmy Clark.
For some reason Brabham's 1961 foray didn't register with me, but by
1962 I had begun following* F1 and was very interested in the rear
engine revolution at Indy. Between the radio-only and live broadcast TV
eras there was a period where one could watch the 500 live in selected
theaters. One of those years was 1964 and I vividly remember the ugly
crash that killed local Southern California driver Dave MacDonald (in
one of Mickey Thompson's ill-conceived roller skates) and veteran Eddie
Sachs. (You may recall that in 1963 Parnelli Jones held on to win ahead
of Jim Clark despite leaking oil for the last 20 laps. His being
allowed to continue without being black-flagged was controversial and in
fact Sachs blamed his late crash on Jones' oil; they famously had a
fistfight over the issue the day after the race.)
*"Following" F1 in those days meant calling the sports desk of the /Los
Angeles Times/ late on Sunday to get someone to tell me the first few
finishers - results might or might not appear in tiny type in Monday's
sports section - then waiting a couple of months for Henry N. Manney
III's excellent report in /Road & Track/.
Some of my earliest memories are of my cousin being born in '62, The
New York Worlds Fair (I lived in NYC), and JFK's Funeral, sitting in
my Moms lap in her rocking chair while she was crying. Plenty of
others too, but those were strong ones. In 1969/70 The Jets, Mets and
Knicks got me totally into sports in a way I wasn't before. After that
year I switched to the NY Giants and NY Yankees....don't even know
why. I probably started watching the Indy 500 around 1965ish....but
Mario is the one that got me all the way in. I do remember glimpses of
F! and European soccer on Wide World of Sports every now and then, but
that was the extent of me ever knowing much about it at the time. I
now live on Long Island and only wish that Bridgehampton Racetrack was
still open...in fact I still want to go and see the few remaining
patches that is left of it.
Dan the Man
2017-05-30 16:13:27 UTC
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Post by jtees4
Post by Bobster
I confess! I enjoyed it.
Not so much the track, but the racing and the drama. It served up both, and Alonso played a leading role, consistently running at or near the front, racing hard and smart, and putting in some great passing moves.
He wasn't perfect. He seemed to struggle with the rolling start and on some of the restarts. He lost places early on, dropping to 9th or 10th from the start, and lost out badly again on the last restart he took. But he dropped back to just behind Sato and so maybe...
It's a technical race with a lot of tactical interest. And you can play the long game. It was interesting to see the strategies play out towards the end of the race. Also interesting was the way the Andretti team made use of having so many cars in the leading pack for most of the race - at one time swapping two cars to get an idea of how they would react to a change from dirty to clean air (and, I presume, vice versa).
I'm not sure I like the track, and I found the quallies, with each car running alone, pretty boring. But the racing was a different matter.
It was a long race. I wasn't often bored.
Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very quickly. I suspect there were multiple teams at different points of the track. Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the wall, bounced off and damn near hit a truck that was parked between the track edge and the barriers. That would have been nasty.
Dixon's crash was terrifying, but the aftermath was a tribute to all the hard work that has been put into the safety aspects of racing cars.
I am 59 and American. As a kid the Indy 500 was the highlight of my
year in sports. Loved it. Big Andretti fan (that would be Mario,
Michael after Mario retired...but not as good). Always liked F! but
back in the day it was not readily available in any meaningful way
that I knew of in the USA. Anyway, when CART and INDY split....I
became a huge CART fan and INDY hater. I also started watching F1 as
it became available on TV here. When CART went away I became a huge F1
fan and remain that way today (Way to go Ferrari I might add, for
Monaco dominance). Bottom line is, Fernando brought me back....first
one I've watched in a long long time and only to see him. It would
have been great if he won, but he had a real good showing. And man do
I hate the "fenders" on the rear wheels. From the front the cars look
like they have full bodywork. Horrible, open wheen should be open
wheel period. Oh well. I hope to see many more F1 guys going to Indy.
It's my understanding that those rear wheel fenders were a reaction to Dan Wheldon's violent death in a wreck at Vegas - to prevent drivers from going over each other's rear wheels. Yeah, they took some getting used to!
Darryl Johnson
2017-05-30 16:32:48 UTC
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Post by Dan the Man
Post by jtees4
Post by Bobster
I confess! I enjoyed it.
Not so much the track, but the racing and the drama. It served up both, and Alonso played a leading role, consistently running at or near the front, racing hard and smart, and putting in some great passing moves.
He wasn't perfect. He seemed to struggle with the rolling start and on some of the restarts. He lost places early on, dropping to 9th or 10th from the start, and lost out badly again on the last restart he took. But he dropped back to just behind Sato and so maybe...
It's a technical race with a lot of tactical interest. And you can play the long game. It was interesting to see the strategies play out towards the end of the race. Also interesting was the way the Andretti team made use of having so many cars in the leading pack for most of the race - at one time swapping two cars to get an idea of how they would react to a change from dirty to clean air (and, I presume, vice versa).
I'm not sure I like the track, and I found the quallies, with each car running alone, pretty boring. But the racing was a different matter.
It was a long race. I wasn't often bored.
Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very quickly. I suspect there were multiple teams at different points of the track. Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the wall, bounced off and damn near hit a truck that was parked between the track edge and the barriers. That would have been nasty.
Dixon's crash was terrifying, but the aftermath was a tribute to all the hard work that has been put into the safety aspects of racing cars.
I am 59 and American. As a kid the Indy 500 was the highlight of my
year in sports. Loved it. Big Andretti fan (that would be Mario,
Michael after Mario retired...but not as good). Always liked F! but
back in the day it was not readily available in any meaningful way
that I knew of in the USA. Anyway, when CART and INDY split....I
became a huge CART fan and INDY hater. I also started watching F1 as
it became available on TV here. When CART went away I became a huge F1
fan and remain that way today (Way to go Ferrari I might add, for
Monaco dominance). Bottom line is, Fernando brought me back....first
one I've watched in a long long time and only to see him. It would
have been great if he won, but he had a real good showing. And man do
I hate the "fenders" on the rear wheels. From the front the cars look
like they have full bodywork. Horrible, open wheen should be open
wheel period. Oh well. I hope to see many more F1 guys going to Indy.
It's my understanding that those rear wheel fenders were a reaction to Dan Wheldon's violent death in a wreck at Vegas - to prevent drivers from going over each other's rear wheels. Yeah, they took some getting used to!
There was a model of the 2018 cars displayed
somewhere on the internet. I forget where I saw
it. As I recall, they cleaned up the back end of
the cars extensively and redesigned the rear
bodywork. The cars looked quite a bit better (in
my opinion).
leonard hofstatder
2017-05-30 17:56:16 UTC
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snip >>
There was a model of the 2018 cars displayed somewhere on the internet.
I forget where I saw it. As I recall, they cleaned up the back end of
the cars extensively and redesigned the rear bodywork. The cars looked
quite a bit better (in my opinion).
Here:
http://www.indycar.com/News/2017/05/05-24-New-car-images-2018
Bobster
2017-05-31 02:43:41 UTC
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Post by Darryl Johnson
Post by Dan the Man
Post by jtees4
Post by Bobster
I confess! I enjoyed it.
Not so much the track, but the racing and the drama. It served up both, and Alonso played a leading role, consistently running at or near the front, racing hard and smart, and putting in some great passing moves.
He wasn't perfect. He seemed to struggle with the rolling start and on some of the restarts. He lost places early on, dropping to 9th or 10th from the start, and lost out badly again on the last restart he took. But he dropped back to just behind Sato and so maybe...
It's a technical race with a lot of tactical interest. And you can play the long game. It was interesting to see the strategies play out towards the end of the race. Also interesting was the way the Andretti team made use of having so many cars in the leading pack for most of the race - at one time swapping two cars to get an idea of how they would react to a change from dirty to clean air (and, I presume, vice versa).
I'm not sure I like the track, and I found the quallies, with each car running alone, pretty boring. But the racing was a different matter.
It was a long race. I wasn't often bored.
Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very quickly. I suspect there were multiple teams at different points of the track. Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the wall, bounced off and damn near hit a truck that was parked between the track edge and the barriers. That would have been nasty.
Dixon's crash was terrifying, but the aftermath was a tribute to all the hard work that has been put into the safety aspects of racing cars.
I am 59 and American. As a kid the Indy 500 was the highlight of my
year in sports. Loved it. Big Andretti fan (that would be Mario,
Michael after Mario retired...but not as good). Always liked F! but
back in the day it was not readily available in any meaningful way
that I knew of in the USA. Anyway, when CART and INDY split....I
became a huge CART fan and INDY hater. I also started watching F1 as
it became available on TV here. When CART went away I became a huge F1
fan and remain that way today (Way to go Ferrari I might add, for
Monaco dominance). Bottom line is, Fernando brought me back....first
one I've watched in a long long time and only to see him. It would
have been great if he won, but he had a real good showing. And man do
I hate the "fenders" on the rear wheels. From the front the cars look
like they have full bodywork. Horrible, open wheen should be open
wheel period. Oh well. I hope to see many more F1 guys going to Indy.
It's my understanding that those rear wheel fenders were a reaction to Dan Wheldon's violent death in a wreck at Vegas - to prevent drivers from going over each other's rear wheels. Yeah, they took some getting used to!
There was a model of the 2018 cars displayed
somewhere on the internet. I forget where I saw
it. As I recall, they cleaned up the back end of
the cars extensively and redesigned the rear
bodywork. The cars looked quite a bit better (in
my opinion).
You can see a recent mockup at http://preview.tinyurl.com/y95ldkk7

The outline of the 2017 car is superimposed on the proposed 2018 design. The intention seems to be to not have the rear wheel shrouds next year.

There's some interesting upsides to having a standard car and standardised body work. Because everybody will have the same kit, INDYCAR have been able to stipulate a changed location for radiators "to assist in reducing the severity of side impacts by crushing on impact."

Interestingly, they are placing more emphasis on downforce generated from the under side of the car so as to reduce the wake the cars leave and thus improve racing. That's easier for them than for F1 where even if you allow more under the car, engineers will still look for ways to generate downforce by other means.
D Munz
2017-05-31 12:24:09 UTC
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Post by Bobster
You can see a recent mockup at http://preview.tinyurl.com/y95ldkk7
The outline of the 2017 car is superimposed on the proposed 2018 design. The intention seems to be to not have the rear wheel shrouds next year.
There's some interesting upsides to having a standard car and standardised body work. Because everybody will have the same kit, INDYCAR have been able to stipulate a changed location for radiators "to assist in reducing the severity of side impacts by crushing on impact."
But what would poor Mr. Newey do then...

I'm still in the "if it fits in a box and runs petrol..." camp. F1 is the pinnacle of auto racing and should not be about spending limits and so forth. But (not to waffle) there is a lot to be said for eliminating those things that take away from the driver's ability to show their skill (traction control etc.)

I guess it comes down to the constructor vs the driver championship. Is it the cars or the men?

It would be interesting to see how the F1 grid would compare in completely equal cars.
Post by Bobster
lightbulb< There's the answer for Liberty. Saturday race in equal spec machines for grid position on the Sunday traditional race. (Back to the "...if you can't afford F1, you shouldn't be in F1..." camp).
Who knows.

FWIW
DLM
bra
2017-05-31 15:17:27 UTC
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Post by Bobster
The outline of the 2017 car is superimposed on the proposed 2018 design. The intention seems to be to not have the rear wheel shrouds next year.
No snagging or intersecting of wheels if you "bare" the wheels themselves but install proper nerf rails along the side of the car:

Loading Image...
bra
2017-05-31 15:22:24 UTC
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Post by Bobster
The outline of the 2017 car is superimposed on the proposed 2018 design. The intention seems to be to not have the rear wheel shrouds next year.
A different version,m and no, I am NOT proposing contact, simply a fix that would prevent any snagging:

Loading Image...
~misfit~
2017-05-31 01:28:59 UTC
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Post by Dan the Man
On Mon, 29 May 2017 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT), Bobster
Post by Bobster
I confess! I enjoyed it.
Not so much the track, but the racing and the drama. It served up
both, and Alonso played a leading role, consistently running at or
near the front, racing hard and smart, and putting in some great
passing moves.
He wasn't perfect. He seemed to struggle with the rolling start and
on some of the restarts. He lost places early on, dropping to 9th
or 10th from the start, and lost out badly again on the last
restart he took. But he dropped back to just behind Sato and so
maybe...
It's a technical race with a lot of tactical interest. And you can
play the long game. It was interesting to see the strategies play
out towards the end of the race. Also interesting was the way the
Andretti team made use of having so many cars in the leading pack
for most of the race - at one time swapping two cars to get an idea
of how they would react to a change from dirty to clean air (and, I
presume, vice versa).
I'm not sure I like the track, and I found the quallies, with each
car running alone, pretty boring. But the racing was a different
matter.
It was a long race. I wasn't often bored.
Also I noticed that the rescue teams got to the drivers very
quickly. I suspect there were multiple teams at different points of
the track. Towards the end, one of the cars (Howerd's?) hit the
wall, bounced off and damn near hit a truck that was parked between
the track edge and the barriers. That would have been nasty.
Dixon's crash was terrifying, but the aftermath was a tribute to
all the hard work that has been put into the safety aspects of
racing cars.
I am 59 and American. As a kid the Indy 500 was the highlight of my
year in sports. Loved it. Big Andretti fan (that would be Mario,
Michael after Mario retired...but not as good). Always liked F! but
back in the day it was not readily available in any meaningful way
that I knew of in the USA. Anyway, when CART and INDY split....I
became a huge CART fan and INDY hater. I also started watching F1 as
it became available on TV here. When CART went away I became a huge
F1 fan and remain that way today (Way to go Ferrari I might add, for
Monaco dominance). Bottom line is, Fernando brought me back....first
one I've watched in a long long time and only to see him. It would
have been great if he won, but he had a real good showing. And man do
I hate the "fenders" on the rear wheels. From the front the cars look
like they have full bodywork. Horrible, open wheen should be open
wheel period. Oh well. I hope to see many more F1 guys going to Indy.
It's my understanding that those rear wheel fenders were a reaction
to Dan Wheldon's violent death in a wreck at Vegas - to prevent
drivers from going over each other's rear wheels. Yeah, they took
some getting used to!
I'm sure I heard the US commentary team say during the 500 that they were
'going' next year.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2017-05-31 05:06:01 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
I'm sure I heard the US commentary team say during the 500 that they were
'going' next year.
You are sure that you were 'going' in your diaper.
t***@gmail.com
2017-05-31 05:21:02 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
the US commentary team
All heterosexuals. Move along fruitcake.
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