Discussion:
DotY?
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John
2017-11-26 21:20:20 UTC
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I guess Vettel. He at least put up the illusion that it could be competitive at a few points during the season.
Darryl Johnson
2017-11-26 21:32:14 UTC
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Post by John
I guess Vettel. He at least put up the illusion that it could be competitive at a few points during the season.
Hmmm. Hard to pick anyone. Yes, Vettel did push the Mercedes on more
than one occasion, but then think of the silly things: running into
Stroll on that cool-down lap for example.

Verstappen and Ricciardo hampered by the lack of Renault reliability
but who otherwise turned in some nice performances.

What about Alonso, who always seemed to put in a great effort when he
wasn't radioing the team and saying what a dog his car was?

I think we can all agree that Kimi was a bit of a dud all year long.
Why Ferrari wants to keep him on for another year I cannot fathom. It
can't just be to keep Vettel happy, can it?

Of the back markers, I can't recall any consistent great effort from
any of them. Of course, it's hard to look good in a car that everyone
else is passing. Williams springs to mind as the team with whom I am
most disappointed (again!) Massa seemed to have lost hos old fire and
Lance Stroll just never really got a handle on things.
John
2017-11-27 18:42:41 UTC
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An honorable mention to Alonso. That he didn't strangle the Honda rep or flat out quit was hartening.
Sir Tim
2017-11-26 21:43:34 UTC
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Post by John
I guess Vettel. He at least put up the illusion that it could be
competitive at a few points during the season.
I’d rule Vettel out because of his disgraceful behaviour at Baku.
Hamilton is the obvious choice, although he certainly had the best car most
of the time.
Depends on the parameters, obviously, but I think Verstappen and Alonso
should both be in with a shout.

Despite your relentless pessimism I think it has been a very good season.
--
Sir Tim
m***@gmail.com
2017-11-27 02:21:42 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by John
I guess Vettel. He at least put up the illusion that it could be
competitive at a few points during the season.
I’d rule Vettel out because of his disgraceful behaviour at Baku.
Hamilton is the obvious choice, although he certainly had the best car most
of the time.
I don't think that the Merc was as superior as in previous years. This was their smallest winning margin. The Ferrari was better, and until they self destructed about 3/4 season, Ferrari were pushing them harder than they'd been pushed before.

So for me It's Hamilton. Look at how Bottas did in the same car. Hamilton made the difference this year. He's been excellent in quallies, and there have been races where he had a difficult car but managed to get in the hot laps when it was important to do so.

Alonso has been good, but also he's mostly been down amongst the Toro Rossos and Renaults. Hard to truly know how good he's really been, hard to weigh him against Hamilton.

We should all watch Verstappen. Hamilton is. This is a moment like Schumacher or Senna (or Hamilton!) arriving. This year he's shown that he has serious speed and the confidence that is easily construed as arrogance to not be overawed by the champions around him.
Phil Carmody
2017-11-30 00:27:46 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by John
I guess Vettel. He at least put up the illusion that it could be
competitive at a few points during the season.
I’d rule Vettel out because of his disgraceful behaviour at Baku.
Hamilton is the obvious choice, although he certainly had the best car most
of the time.
Depends on the parameters, obviously, but I think Verstappen and Alonso
should both be in with a shout.
Despite your relentless pessimism I think it has been a very good season.
Agree, agree, and agree, but I'd like to throw in a wildcard - Ocon.
With only half a year in a dog behind him and with limited kit (even
if it was track kit) this year, he's pulled 8th out of the bag,
scoring 18 times out of 20, and shown himself to be quite racey in the
process. Only beaten by the 3 big teams and a teammate with 7 years
experience (8:12 H2H). Looking forward to more of him. And when it
comes to his Perez-fender magnetism, I'd point the finger at Sergio
more often than not.

Phil
--
In order for there to be rights, there must be wrongs - if you want to
get rid of wrongs, which great leaders do, you *must* get rid of rights.
~misfit~
2017-11-30 02:04:46 UTC
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Post by Phil Carmody
Post by John
I guess Vettel. He at least put up the illusion that it could be
competitive at a few points during the season.
I¢d rule Vettel out because of his disgraceful behaviour at Baku.
Hamilton is the obvious choice, although he certainly had the best
car most of the time.
Depends on the parameters, obviously, but I think Verstappen and
Alonso should both be in with a shout.
Despite your relentless pessimism I think it has been a very good season.
Agree, agree, and agree, but I'd like to throw in a wildcard - Ocon.
With only half a year in a dog behind him and with limited kit (even
if it was track kit) this year, he's pulled 8th out of the bag,
scoring 18 times out of 20, and shown himself to be quite racey in the
process. Only beaten by the 3 big teams and a teammate with 7 years
experience (8:12 H2H). Looking forward to more of him. And when it
comes to his Perez-fender magnetism, I'd point the finger at Sergio
more often than not.
Phil
Agree, agree, and agree. I've been watching Ocon all year, picking him a
couple of times for the pool. He's certainly a future great. He beat
Verstappen over a season in a junior formula (F3 Euro?) and the fact that he
and his family really struggled to get him where he is appeals to me (as
does the fact that he doesn't talk about it).

Perez is just a mildly-talented brat IMO. Every time I see him being
interviewed he's complaining or bitter. It's like he thinks that because he
brings (much) more money (cartel money? - he sure acts like a thug) to Force
India he should be given number one driver status. Whenever they've come
together Perez rubbished Ocon whereas Ocon rarely if ever did likewise. (A
drivers character is as imortant to me as his skill when it comes to me
supporting them..).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2017-11-30 02:53:16 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
I've been watching Ocon all year
on pirated tv
Post by ~misfit~
Perez is just a mildly-talented brat IMO. Every time I see him being
interviewed
on pirated tv

Bruce Hoult
2017-11-26 23:48:09 UTC
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Post by John
I guess Vettel. He at least put up the illusion that it could be competitive at a few points during the season.
Probably.

Vettel finished only 46 points behind Hamilton. If he hadn't had those two retirements in Singapore (crashing in the 1st corner from pole) and Japan (dud spark plug after starting 3rd) he could well have been only a handful of points behind Hamilton.

Bottas finished 100 points ahead of Räikkönen, which is pretty big.

In fact if Ricciardo had finished the race today in any sort of decent position -- 7th or better, and 5th right behind Kimmi was obviously well on -- then he'd have snatched 4th for the season off Kimmi. In a clearly worse car.

Ricciardo finished reasonably comfortably ahead of Verstappen. DNFs were 6:7. Wins were 1:2. Podiums were 9:4. Quali was 7:13. Verstappen is freaking fast, but he doesn't yet do a good job of turning his superior quali skills into consistent podiums. Ricciardo was on the podium in 64% of the races that he actually finished (Verstappen 31%).

Alonso did a great job dragging a dog around the track but you can't give DOTY to a multiple WDC with 17 points.
m***@gmail.com
2017-11-27 02:23:47 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by John
I guess Vettel. He at least put up the illusion that it could be competitive at a few points during the season.
Probably.
Vettel finished only 46 points behind Hamilton. If he hadn't had those two retirements in Singapore (crashing in the 1st corner from pole) and Japan (dud spark plug after starting 3rd) he could well have been only a handful of points behind Hamilton.
Bottas finished 100 points ahead of Räikkönen, which is pretty big.
In fact if Ricciardo had finished the race today in any sort of decent position -- 7th or better, and 5th right behind Kimmi was obviously well on -- then he'd have snatched 4th for the season off Kimmi. In a clearly worse car.
And Ricciardo mentioned that. And he's right. Kimi was not good this year. I wonder who they're keeping that seat warm for.
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