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More Murray
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Bobster
2017-01-29 05:32:35 UTC
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This article is about his time at McLaren and his first McLaren race car.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/september-2005/66/x-ray-spec-mclaren-mp44

And this passage really surprised me.
"When I came to McLaren I thought they would have masses of discipline and that they'd analyse everything. At Brabham I'd get everybody together after races to track problems and solve them. We had a detailed life assessment for all parts and we tracked materials carefully. I imagined that at McLaren it would be 10 times better. But there was absolutely nothing like this. I'd ask to see the reliability records from last year -- the log of everything that broke and what was done about it -- but they didn't keep such records. They didn't have meetings after every race because they didn't have a meeting room! When I started at McLaren, Ron said, 'you have carte blanche -- anything you don't like, change. Anything you want, you can have. I want to win championships.' He absolutely stuck to that, and it was key in the MP4/4's success. I built meeting rooms, began to keep testing records, got hold of all the broken bits to analyse the problems. In '87 there were 74 chassis failures, where something had cracked or whatever. In 1988 we got this down to 17."
brafield
2017-01-29 16:26:36 UTC
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Post by Bobster
This article is about his time at McLaren and his first McLaren race car.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/september-2005/66/x-ray-spec-mclaren-mp44
And this passage really surprised me.
"When I came to McLaren I thought they would have masses of discipline and that they'd analyse everything. At Brabham I'd get everybody together after races to track problems and solve them. We had a detailed life assessment for all parts and we tracked materials carefully. I imagined that at McLaren it would be 10 times better. But there was absolutely nothing like this. I'd ask to see the reliability records from last year -- the log of everything that broke and what was done about it -- but they didn't keep such records. They didn't have meetings after every race because they didn't have a meeting room! When I started at McLaren, Ron said, 'you have carte blanche -- anything you don't like, change. Anything you want, you can have. I want to win championships.' He absolutely stuck to that, and it was key in the MP4/4's success. I built meeting rooms, began to keep testing records, got hold of all the broken bits to analyse the problems. In '87 there were 74 chassis failures, where something had cracked or whatever. In 1988 we got this down to 17."
Thank you. Even in the early sixties, Graham Hill kept his own 'little black book' about his car setups, and in an interview his mechanics said he was fierce about anyone who slacked off or was casual.
Halmyre
2017-01-29 19:16:49 UTC
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Post by brafield
Post by Bobster
This article is about his time at McLaren and his first McLaren race car.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/september-2005/66/x-ray-spec-mclaren-mp44
And this passage really surprised me.
"When I came to McLaren I thought they would have masses of discipline and that they'd analyse everything. At Brabham I'd get everybody together after races to track problems and solve them. We had a detailed life assessment for all parts and we tracked materials carefully. I imagined that at McLaren it would be 10 times better. But there was absolutely nothing like this. I'd ask to see the reliability records from last year -- the log of everything that broke and what was done about it -- but they didn't keep such records. They didn't have meetings after every race because they didn't have a meeting room! When I started at McLaren, Ron said, 'you have carte blanche -- anything you don't like, change. Anything you want, you can have. I want to win championships.' He absolutely stuck to that, and it was key in the MP4/4's success. I built meeting rooms, began to keep testing records, got hold of all the broken bits to analyse the problems. In '87 there were 74 chassis failures, where something had cracked or whatever. In 1988 we got this down to 17."
Thank you. Even in the early sixties, Graham Hill kept his own 'little black book' about his car setups, and in an interview his mechanics said he was fierce about anyone who slacked off or was casual.
I have heard that Hill's little black book was the bane of the mechanics' life, especially when he turned up at Lotus in 1967.
Mark Jackson
2017-01-29 21:13:22 UTC
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Post by Halmyre
Post by brafield
Even in the early sixties, Graham Hill kept his own
'little black book' about his car setups, and in an interview his
mechanics said he was fierce about anyone who slacked off or was
casual.
I have heard that Hill's little black book was the bane of the
mechanics' life, especially when he turned up at Lotus in 1967.
"In our early days together [at BRM] Graham had played a tremendous part
in developing our good road-holding. . . .

"During 1965 and 1966 Graham had spent less time telling me what the car
was doing, so I could prescribe treatment; he just told his mechanic
Alan Challis what he wanted. I complained that if he did not tell us
what was happening, we would stop learning and improving. He said it
saved time and he always told Dobbin why he wanted the change"
- Tony Rolt, /It Was Fun! My Fifty Years of High Performance/, which I
just happen to be re-reading.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Just because you don't see killer robots marching
down the street doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned.
- Elon Musk
Sir Tim
2017-01-29 21:23:00 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Halmyre
Post by brafield
Even in the early sixties, Graham Hill kept his own
'little black book' about his car setups, and in an interview his
mechanics said he was fierce about anyone who slacked off or was
casual.
I have heard that Hill's little black book was the bane of the
mechanics' life, especially when he turned up at Lotus in 1967.
"In our early days together [at BRM] Graham had played a tremendous part
in developing our good road-holding. . . .
"During 1965 and 1966 Graham had spent less time telling me what the car
was doing, so I could prescribe treatment; he just told his mechanic
Alan Challis what he wanted. I complained that if he did not tell us
what was happening, we would stop learning and improving. He said it
saved time and he always told Dobbin why he wanted the change"
- Tony Rolt, /It Was Fun! My Fifty Years of High Performance/, which I
just happen to be re-reading.
Tony Rudd surely?
Tony Rolt was the guy who partnered Duncan Hamilton in the Le Mans-winning
Jaguar of the 1950s - one of my early heroes.
--
Sir Tim
"Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional"
Mark Jackson
2017-01-29 22:25:04 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Mark Jackson
- Tony Rolt, /It Was Fun! My Fifty Years of High Performance/, which I
just happen to be re-reading.
Tony Rudd surely?
Yes. . . .
Post by Sir Tim
Tony Rolt was the guy who partnered Duncan Hamilton in the Le Mans-winning
Jaguar of the 1950s
Which I knew. What I *don't* know is why my fingers typed his name
rather than Rudd's.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Just because you don't see killer robots marching
down the street doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned.
- Elon Musk
Mark Jackson
2017-02-07 17:10:38 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
Tony Rolt was the guy who partnered Duncan Hamilton in the Le
Mans-winning Jaguar of the 1950s
Which I knew. What I *don't* know is why my fingers typed his name
rather than Rudd's.
As it happens Saward's "Fascinating F1 Fact" series features Tony Rolt
today:

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/fascinating-f1-fact62/
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Railing against Obamacare was easy, but the responsibilities
of power have taken all the fun out of denying medical care
to the poor and sick. - Jonathan Chait
Sir Tim
2017-02-07 20:40:40 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Sir Tim
Tony Rolt was the guy who partnered Duncan Hamilton in the Le
Mans-winning Jaguar of the 1950s
Which I knew. What I *don't* know is why my fingers typed his name
rather than Rudd's.
As it happens Saward's "Fascinating F1 Fact" series features Tony Rolt
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/fascinating-f1-fact62/
Yes, I saw Saward's piece. As he says, a life well lived.

In 1953 at Le Mans the Rolt/Hamilton Jaguar was initially excluded for
running with the same number as another car during practice. According to
Duncan Hamilton he and Rolt retired to a local bar and were already drunk
when they learned that they had been reinstated. They subsequently went on
to win.

Rolt denied the story, as did Lofty England who said that he had enough
trouble with them when they were sober, let alone allowing them to race
when drunk!
--
Sir Tim
"Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional"
Bobster
2017-01-29 21:12:32 UTC
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Thats interesting, thanks. I'd heard Hill described as the ultimate driver/mechanic, but never knew why he was spoken of in that way.

ISTR that Harvey Postelthwaite started tracking component life at Hesketh, and that was considered innovative at the time.
brafield
2017-02-07 21:01:50 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Thats interesting, thanks. I'd heard Hill described as the ultimate driver/mechanic, but never knew why he was spoken of in that way.
ISTR that Harvey Postelthwaite started tracking component life at Hesketh, and that was considered innovative at the time.
If Graham Hill was THE driver-mechanic, who was pure driver?
I have read that Jochen Rindt had very little interest in the hardware, and frustrated his mechanics; rather than discuss what might work better, Rindt simply went out and wrestled a better lap time from the imperfect car setup.

Any truth to this enjoyable legend?

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