Discussion:
Red Bull and Mobil
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Bobster
2017-02-09 18:27:13 UTC
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Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid era. I don't think anybody else has that experience. Also suggests that you don't have to run Petronas if you run a Merc PU.

Total are out of F1 now, so Red Bull were going to have to change. If you believe that fuel can make a difference, then this is probably the best deal they could have got.
Bigbird
2017-02-09 19:41:29 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid era. I
don't think anybody else has that experience.
Is that significant, the hybrid; they are ICE's as far as the fuel is
concerned. No?

Isn't the method of combustion rather more significant.
~misfit~
2017-02-10 02:12:47 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by Bobster
Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid era. I
don't think anybody else has that experience.
Is that significant, the hybrid; they are ICE's as far as the fuel is
concerned. No?
Isn't the method of combustion rather more significant.
I see that you're replying to Bob again.

These PUs aren't the same as traditional petrol ICEs which are ignited by a
spark in the main combustion chamber. They use various types of pre-ignition
and flame-front propagation throughout the combustion chamber. The systems
may be similar to each other but they're not identical (AIUI). Therefore
knowledge of and experience with different types of main-charge ignition in
F1 ICEs would be invaluable IMO.

But I'm sure that you knew that already.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Bigbird
2017-02-10 06:40:08 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by Bobster
Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid era.
I don't think anybody else has that experience.
Is that significant, the hybrid; they are ICE's as far as the fuel
is concerned. No?
Isn't the method of combustion rather more significant.
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
I wasn't aware of stopping as such.
Post by ~misfit~
These PUs aren't the same as traditional petrol ICEs which are
ignited by a spark in the main combustion chamber. They use various
types of pre-ignition and flame-front propagation throughout the
combustion chamber. The systems may be similar to each other but
they're not identical (AIUI). Therefore knowledge of and experience
with different types of main-charge ignition in F1 ICEs would be
invaluable IMO.
But I'm sure that you knew that already.
Well it is not an area I am very knowledgeable about but yes I was
intending to refer to HCCI etc... fuel efficiency being the driving
force (excuse the pun).
~misfit~
2017-02-10 10:56:41 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by Bobster
Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid era.
I don't think anybody else has that experience.
Is that significant, the hybrid; they are ICE's as far as the fuel
is concerned. No?
Isn't the method of combustion rather more significant.
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
I wasn't aware of stopping as such.
I could have sworn that you said that you were going to put him into your
killfile for a few months (or similar).
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
These PUs aren't the same as traditional petrol ICEs which are
ignited by a spark in the main combustion chamber. They use various
types of pre-ignition and flame-front propagation throughout the
combustion chamber. The systems may be similar to each other but
they're not identical (AIUI). Therefore knowledge of and experience
with different types of main-charge ignition in F1 ICEs would be
invaluable IMO.
But I'm sure that you knew that already.
Well it is not an area I am very knowledgeable about but yes I was
intending to refer to HCCI etc... fuel efficiency being the driving
force (excuse the pun).
I thought you were. These trick ignition and direct injection systems only
came into use in the hybrid era - hence using the term 'hybrid era' is
perhaps a vaild delineator in this case.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Bigbird
2017-02-10 12:30:48 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by Bobster
Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid
era. I don't think anybody else has that experience.
Is that significant, the hybrid; they are ICE's as far as the
fuel is concerned. No?
Isn't the method of combustion rather more significant.
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
I wasn't aware of stopping as such.
I could have sworn that you said that you were going to put him into
your killfile for a few months (or similar).
Oh I'm sure I have put him in the Bozo bin now and again... usually the
"mark all post by this Bozo as read" especially after a tiresome spat
or I have found his manner particularly offensive. It's only for a
month at a time and not that recently as I recall.

I don't tend to use the killfile that often for regulars. I do have a
number of friends of Bakers set to "do not download" as they have no
business posting here except their spats with Baker.

Baker is the only regular from this group Bozo'd. I do that for the
sensibilities of regulars like Trev who the spats bother and for myself
as beyond the first couple of replies it really is a waste of time and
I lack the self-disciplie to let it go, especially the deceitfulness. I
must admit Baker is very good at trolling... but then if you see the
other groups he frequents he does put an awful lot of time and effort
into it.
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
These PUs aren't the same as traditional petrol ICEs which are
ignited by a spark in the main combustion chamber. They use
various types of pre-ignition and flame-front propagation
throughout the combustion chamber. The systems may be similar to
each other but they're not identical (AIUI). Therefore knowledge
of and experience with different types of main-charge ignition in
F1 ICEs would be invaluable IMO.
But I'm sure that you knew that already.
Well it is not an area I am very knowledgeable about but yes I was
intending to refer to HCCI etc... fuel efficiency being the driving
force (excuse the pun).
I thought you were. These trick ignition and direct injection systems
only came into use in the hybrid era - hence using the term 'hybrid
era' is perhaps a vaild delineator in this case.
I don't think I suggested it was wrong just that the hybrid technology
is not the significant factor... fuel efficiency is. Knowledge gained
before the hybrid era is still relevant (and after too) if it relates
to fuel efficiency and ignition/combustion methods.
~misfit~
2017-02-10 23:41:11 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by Bobster
Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid
era. I don't think anybody else has that experience.
Is that significant, the hybrid; they are ICE's as far as the
fuel is concerned. No?
Isn't the method of combustion rather more significant.
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
I wasn't aware of stopping as such.
I could have sworn that you said that you were going to put him into
your killfile for a few months (or similar).
Oh I'm sure I have put him in the Bozo bin now and again... usually
the "mark all post by this Bozo as read" especially after a tiresome
spat or I have found his manner particularly offensive. It's only for
a month at a time and not that recently as I recall.
I don't tend to use the killfile that often for regulars. I do have a
number of friends of Bakers set to "do not download" as they have no
business posting here except their spats with Baker.
Baker is the only regular from this group Bozo'd. I do that for the
sensibilities of regulars like Trev who the spats bother and for
myself as beyond the first couple of replies it really is a waste of
time and I lack the self-disciplie to let it go, especially the
deceitfulness. I must admit Baker is very good at trolling... but
then if you see the other groups he frequents he does put an awful
lot of time and effort into it.
Understood - and know the feeling.
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
These PUs aren't the same as traditional petrol ICEs which are
ignited by a spark in the main combustion chamber. They use
various types of pre-ignition and flame-front propagation
throughout the combustion chamber. The systems may be similar to
each other but they're not identical (AIUI). Therefore knowledge
of and experience with different types of main-charge ignition in
F1 ICEs would be invaluable IMO.
But I'm sure that you knew that already.
Well it is not an area I am very knowledgeable about but yes I was
intending to refer to HCCI etc... fuel efficiency being the driving
force (excuse the pun).
I thought you were. These trick ignition and direct injection systems
only came into use in the hybrid era - hence using the term 'hybrid
era' is perhaps a vaild delineator in this case.
I don't think I suggested it was wrong just that the hybrid technology
is not the significant factor... fuel efficiency is. Knowledge gained
before the hybrid era is still relevant (and after too) if it relates
to fuel efficiency and ignition/combustion methods.
You're not wrong. However IMO these new trick methods of igniting lean
mixtures (which started with the hybrid era) is the biggest advance lately.
A fuel company having experience of multiple systems must be at an
advantage.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
.
2017-02-10 23:50:23 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
You're not wrong. However IMO these new trick methods of igniting lean
mixtures (which started with the hybrid era) is the biggest advance lately.
A fuel company having experience of multiple systems must be at an
advantage.
Oh how the poseur loves to feign competence. Lean burn
was even in production cars since at least the early '70s.
Alan LeHun
2017-02-11 00:32:00 UTC
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Post by .
Post by ~misfit~
You're not wrong. However IMO these new trick methods of igniting lean
mixtures (which started with the hybrid era) is the biggest advance lately.
A fuel company having experience of multiple systems must be at an
advantage.
Oh how the poseur loves to feign competence. Lean burn
was even in production cars since at least the early '70s.
Yes. But did these '70s era lean burn engines use the new trick methods
of ignition?

I bet they didn't achieve the air-fuel ratios that, for example,
stratification can achieve...
--
Alan LeHun
.
2017-02-11 00:38:07 UTC
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Post by Alan LeHun
Post by .
Post by ~misfit~
You're not wrong. However IMO these new trick methods of igniting lean
mixtures (which started with the hybrid era) is the biggest advance lately.
A fuel company having experience of multiple systems must be at an
advantage.
Oh how the poseur loves to feign competence. Lean burn
was even in production cars since at least the early '70s.
Yes. But did these '70s era lean burn engines use the new trick methods
of ignition?
I bet they didn't achieve the air-fuel ratios that, for example,
stratification can achieve...
Ford were dedicated to strat charge, but finally gave it up,
although the research led to other advancements. The Honda
CVCC utilized a type of SC.
Alan LeHun
2017-02-11 11:29:22 UTC
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Post by .
Ford were dedicated to strat charge, but finally gave it up,
Just Strat charging, or stratification altogether? I can't imagine they
could give up on it all together....
Post by .
although the research led to other advancements.
Can you give me a pointer? I wonder if other advancements are roses by
another name.
Post by .
The Honda
CVCC utilized a type of SC.
I find it fascinating that we are now at the stage where not just air-
fuel ratios, but the volumetric structure of such mixtures can be micro
managed to such detail. On standard commercial production engines.

Some petrolheads may bemoan the electronic nannying of abs and asc and
whatnot, but few could find fault with the advantages that have arisen
from ecu development.
--
Alan LeHun
Bigbird
2017-02-11 12:41:41 UTC
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Post by Alan LeHun
Post by .
Ford were dedicated to strat charge, but finally gave it up,
Just Strat charging, or stratification altogether? I can't imagine
they could give up on it all together....
Post by .
although the research led to other advancements.
Can you give me a pointer? I wonder if other advancements are roses
by another name.
Post by .
The Honda
CVCC utilized a type of SC.
I find it fascinating that we are now at the stage where not just air-
fuel ratios, but the volumetric structure of such mixtures can be
micro managed to such detail. On standard commercial production
engines.
Some petrolheads may bemoan the electronic nannying of abs and asc
and whatnot, but few could find fault with the advantages that have
arisen from ecu development.
What I'd wager Dotty hasn't grasped is that these F1 engines are using
technology that the manufacturers could not make a success of in road
vehicles. The real pay off is if the experience gained feeds back into
production cars eventually.
brafield
2017-02-11 00:12:01 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
You're not wrong. However IMO these new trick methods of igniting lean
mixtures (which started with the hybrid era) is the biggest advance lately.
A fuel company having experience of multiple systems must be at an
advantage.
--
Shaun.
OT trivia --- for 50 years, dragster pilots knew when the engine began to run lean at high speed because the car "nosed over": that was and still is their diagnostic phrase, "It nosed over".

The car would suffer what was, in essence, engine braking that caused a torque reaction, because the power train was going faster than the engine could now drive. The old slingshot drivers could SEE as well as feel the chassis twist at the front axle.
t***@gmail.com
2017-02-11 02:42:49 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Understood - and know the feeling.
Yes, of a penis up your ass.
t***@gmail.com
2017-02-11 02:47:15 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Oh I'm sure I have put him in the Bozo bin now and again... usually
the "mark all post by this Bozo as read" especially after a tiresome
spat or I have found his manner particularly offensive. It's only for
a month at a time and not that recently as I recall.
I don't tend to use the killfile that often for regulars. I do have a
number of friends of Bakers set to "do not download" as they have no
business posting here except their spats with Baker.
Baker is the only regular from this group Bozo'd. I do that for the
sensibilities of regulars like Trev who the spats bother and for
myself as beyond the first couple of replies it really is a waste of
time and I lack the self-disciplie to let it go, especially the
deceitfulness. I must admit Baker is very good at trolling... but
then if you see the other groups he frequents he does put an awful
lot of time and effort into it.
queer
t***@gmail.com
2017-02-11 02:57:55 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Oh I'm sure I have put him in the Bozo bin now and again... usually
the "mark all post by this Bozo as read" especially after a tiresome
spat or I have found his manner particularly offensive. It's only for
a month at a time and not that recently as I recall.
A month at a time does not suffice for your gay lover misfart.
He wants it permanent.
t***@gmail.com
2017-02-11 03:11:08 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
I don't tend to use the killfile that often for regulars.
Fuck off irregular pussy fart.
t***@gmail.com
2017-02-10 18:11:08 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by Bobster
Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid era.
I don't think anybody else has that experience.
Is that significant, the hybrid; they are ICE's as far as the fuel
is concerned. No?
Isn't the method of combustion rather more significant.
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
I wasn't aware of stopping as such.
I could have sworn that you said that you were going to put him into your
killfile for a few months (or similar).
What's it to you, drama fag.
Bigbird
2017-02-10 20:11:37 UTC
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Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by Bobster
Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid
era. >>>> I don't think anybody else has that experience.
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Is that significant, the hybrid; they are ICE's as far as the
fuel >>> is concerned. No?
Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Isn't the method of combustion rather more significant.
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
I wasn't aware of stopping as such.
I could have sworn that you said that you were going to put him
into your killfile for a few months (or similar).
What's it to you, drama fag.
More to the point; what's it to you Abdul?
.
2017-02-10 12:41:12 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bigbird
Post by Bobster
Mobil now have experience with 3 different PUs in the hybrid era. I
don't think anybody else has that experience.
Is that significant, the hybrid; they are ICE's as far as the fuel is
concerned. No?
Isn't the method of combustion rather more significant.
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
These PUs aren't the same as traditional petrol ICEs which are ignited by a
spark in the main combustion chamber. They use various types of pre-ignition
and flame-front propagation throughout the combustion chamber. The systems
may be similar to each other but they're not identical (AIUI). Therefore
knowledge of and experience with different types of main-charge ignition in
F1 ICEs would be invaluable IMO.
But I'm sure that you knew that already.
What a veritable steaming pile of vague, pretentious horseshit.
t***@gmail.com
2017-02-10 18:17:32 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
lol
t***@gmail.com
2017-02-10 19:00:44 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
How could bigbird do that to you,
after you have been a dedicated leg humper.
Please take care of yourself during this difficult time.
~misfit~
2017-02-10 23:41:18 UTC
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Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by ~misfit~
I see that you're replying to Bob again.
How could bigbird do that to you,
after you have been a dedicated leg humper.
Please take care of yourself during this difficult time.
Wow! So infatuated with me that you reply twice to the same thing over 40
minutes apart!

I sympathise. Apparently unrequited love can be a terrible thing.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Bigbird
2017-02-11 10:03:32 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Wow! So infatuated with me that you reply twice to the same thing
over 40 minutes apart!
I sympathise. Apparently unrequited love can be a terrible thing.
He seems to have a thing for the same people Bobby does and a simlar
need for attention and validation; perhaps they are cyber lovers or
even a menage a trois with Abdul.
~misfit~
2017-02-11 23:09:23 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by ~misfit~
Wow! So infatuated with me that you reply twice to the same thing
over 40 minutes apart!
I sympathise. Apparently unrequited love can be a terrible thing.
He seems to have a thing for the same people Bobby does and a simlar
need for attention and validation; perhaps they are cyber lovers or
even a menage a trois with Abdul.
Yes I've noticed that. Almost like two sides of the same coin....
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
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