Discussion:
Steve McQueen Formula One film "Day of the Champion"
(too old to reply)
d***@gmail.com
2017-03-14 17:17:09 UTC
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Actually IIRC Sabato may have been scared by those "quick laps" but Bedford
(Stoddard) never even climbed into the riged up car. He was scared to
even get
in the thing. The main reason he always wore the full face coverage. There
was someone else in the cockpit!! Now i dont know if this is infact
true...but
I heard more than one person talk about it so I'm tempted to belive it does
have some truth.
Ah, I believe you are talking about Grand Prix here!
I've got a few articles about the movie from over the years as
well as a copy of the Speedvison retrospective with the James
Garner interview and IIRC Bedford did attempt it but was hopeless.
He had just gotten his road license a week or two before.
Tom
--
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
Day of the Champion and Le Mans were two entirely separate movies. If you dig a bit you'll find that for Day of the Champions mostly real F1 cars were bought and shot at various tracks including the Nurburgring. Supposedly a million feet of film was shot, who knows where it is. When the making of "The Sand Pebbles" ran long and McQueen wasn't available, the movie was canceled since Grand Prix was already released. As far as the quality of Grand Prix and Le Mans, every real racer I know loves Le Mans because it really captures what it's like being in the car. Grand Prix, from a racer's point of view, is/was an embarrassment, full of Hollywood cliche plot elements and F3 cars masquerading as F1 cars. Awful unless you really like the hokey story. Another myth is that Le was a failure. It equaled another movie from 1970 you might remember, generally considered a hit - "Dirty Harry".
~misfit~
2017-03-15 22:56:07 UTC
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[snipped]

<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post - as if
anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still cares about the
subject.

How hard is it to look at the date of the post you're reading?
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
ReadTheClock
2017-03-16 12:15:24 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
How hard is it to look at the date of the post you're reading?
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Please check back for an answer in 17 years ;)
Bruce Hoult
2017-03-16 13:29:38 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post - as if
anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still cares about the
subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run uucp and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I don't need to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly serviceable job.

Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Mark Jackson
2017-03-16 13:44:09 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post -
as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still
cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run uucp
and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I don't need
to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Is it September already?
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it
get us out? - Will Rogers
Naked Fame
2017-03-16 21:11:19 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post -
as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still
cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run uucp
and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I don't need
to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Is it September already?
According to sdate, it's "Thu Sep 8598 23:10:58 EET 1993" where I live.
--
Signature
~misfit~
2017-03-16 22:14:35 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post -
as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still
cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run uucp
and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I don't need
to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Is it September already?
Eternally it seems.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
t***@gmail.com
2017-03-16 16:04:32 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post - as if
anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still cares about the
subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups?
It's not just google groups.
He's got a bitch on for the whole world in general.
News
2017-03-16 18:44:38 UTC
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Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post - as if
anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still cares about the
subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups?
It's not just google groups.
He's got a bitch on for the whole world in general.
And you rag 28 days a month.
~misfit~
2017-03-16 22:19:18 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post -
as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still
cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run uucp
and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I don't need
to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a hurdle that
kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups removed that hurdle
allowing said stupid users access.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Bruce Hoult
2017-03-16 22:28:57 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post -
as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still
cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run uucp
and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I don't need
to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a hurdle that
kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups removed that hurdle
allowing said stupid users access.
To be fair, universities and local dial-in BBSs such as Actrix in Wellington or KCBBS in Auckland allowed stupid users access as early as 1990.
~misfit~
2017-03-18 00:38:05 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post -
as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still
cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run uucp
and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I don't need
to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a
hurdle that kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups
removed that hurdle allowing said stupid users access.
To be fair, universities and local dial-in BBSs such as Actrix in
Wellington or KCBBS in Auckland allowed stupid users access as early
as 1990.
To be fair getting to university and/or having the nous to *know* about
BBSes etc. then spend the money on the required hardware was a hurdle that
kept out most stupid people. ;)

These days millions of people buy a phone that is smart so that they don't
have to be (and it's cheap or 'free' ...) and "oh look there's this Google
Groups thing!"...
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Bobster
2017-03-18 03:45:23 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post -
as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still
cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run uucp
and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I don't need
to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a
hurdle that kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups
removed that hurdle allowing said stupid users access.
To be fair, universities and local dial-in BBSs such as Actrix in
Wellington or KCBBS in Auckland allowed stupid users access as early
as 1990.
To be fair getting to university and/or having the nous to *know* about
BBSes etc. then spend the money on the required hardware was a hurdle that
kept out most stupid people. ;)
Hardware was relatively more expensive and you had to deal with specialist stores. You didn't need "nous" to know about BBSs or usenet. Somebody would tell you or show you and you'd decide to have a go. And if you had any sort of interest in the Internet (which started making waves amongst the greater public in the early 90s), you'd sign up and your service provider would give you a bunch of discs with everything preconfigured for their proxy server, their mail server, their NNTP server etc. There was no having to hunt anything down.

Anyway, the argument is snobbery. Even if things were as you say, so what? How does the not-so-difficult feat of being able to configure an NNTP client make you a better, wiser contributor to a discussion group? Answer: It doesn't. One may use google groups or AOL and be constructive and pleasant. One may have done it the hard, allegedly clever way, and be a complete dick.
Post by ~misfit~
These days millions of people buy a phone that is smart so that they don't
have to be (and it's cheap or 'free' ...) and "oh look there's this Google
Groups thing!"...
Yawn. You're like a couple of old timers I know. They will brandish their 20 year old feature phone (whose features they neither understand nor use) and tell you "I can TALK on this."

Again it's a fallacy that because people have a smart phone that comes pre-loaded with all sorts of stuff (I've never had one, BTW, which has an icon saying "Google groups") they must be idiots. No. The guys who are soon going to be losing out are those without a smartphone. Increasingly I do a lot of my banking on a smartphone. I take it on the train with a memory card in it which gives me... well I haven't counted but certainly over 150 albums of music to listen to. If the train is late or the weather bad I can summons a taxi - even if I don't know where I am, because the phone's GPS function will send my location to the taxi driver. GPS? I can use it for navigation. I'll be in the UK in three month's time and will preload it maps of areas I know I will be driving in. At a pinch I can read books on it. I can stream video onto it. I can make in-store payments with it even if I am without cash or credit cards.

The contemporary smart phone is a wonderful thing - hardly a phone at all. I'm guessing you can't afford one and that that's the reason for your resentment. You certainly must be smart enough.

And when people do finally get one of these marvellous devices, they are more likely to get onto Facebook or Twitter (you'll be pleased to know that there is still some configuration necessary) and get involved on those, where what you say is more important than if you had to type in an IP address all by yourself.

BTW, what if somebody started off in the good old way, downloading a copy of Free Agent or something similar and configuring it by yourself, and then started using GG because you need one account and no special no software and thus can access it from nearly any computer anywhere including whilst you're on the move? Dumb or smart or just plain practical?
Bruce Hoult
2017-03-18 08:43:00 UTC
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Post by Bobster
The guys who are soon going to be losing out are those without a smartphone. Increasingly I do a lot of my banking on a smartphone. I take it on the train with a memory card in it which gives me... well I haven't counted but certainly over 150 albums of music to listen to. If the train is late or the weather bad I can summons a taxi - even if I don't know where I am, because the phone's GPS function will send my location to the taxi driver. GPS? I can use it for navigation. I'll be in the UK in three month's time and will preload it maps of areas I know I will be driving in. At a pinch I can read books on it. I can stream video onto it. I can make in-store payments with it even if I am without cash or credit cards.
In fact a smartphone with internet is a far more valuable and useful thing for the world's poorest people -- in India or China or Africa -- than it is for relatively wealthy people in the west. Even if it's a ten year old original iPhone (my god it's ten years already!) it lets them do things they could never do before at all. For me it's a mere convenience.

I remember when I first travelled internationally in the late 80s. I carried so many kg of books of maps and an SLR camera and lenses and brochures and tickets and cash. By 1994 I'd added a mobile phone and a big clunky GPS (http://gei.aerobaticsweb.org/WORLD_95/depaper/ion1h.html .. I was given one of the units used at the Jan 1994 pre-worlds as thanks for helping during the contest). A couple of years after that I started carrying a Sony Hi8 video camera (and then Digital8) as well as my SLR.

Now I have quite literally travelled to the other side of the world with nothing but my passport, credit card, iPhone and USB cable, and two or three shorts/shirts/underwear -- and I can do everything I could do before carrying 10 kg of gear. Even the credit card is almost unnecessary, as I can use the iPhone to pay anywhere that PayWave works (or with a Samsung phone, anywhere with a mag stripe reader as well).

The smartphone has had incredibly quick adoption. I saw Steve Jobs' presentation on January 9 2007 and did everything to could to get my hands on one as soon as possible after they went on sale in the USA on June 29 -- being in New Zealand (where the first iPhone sold was the 3G) it took me until October before I owned one myself.

Now it's virtually impossible to ride on a bus or train anywhere in the world and not see half the passengers with either an iPhone or one of the many Android phones -- and it seems to have been that way since at least 2014 (around the iPhone 4/4s, Galaxy S 4/5).
Bobster
2017-03-18 12:54:38 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by Bobster
The guys who are soon going to be losing out are those without a smartphone. Increasingly I do a lot of my banking on a smartphone. I take it on the train with a memory card in it which gives me... well I haven't counted but certainly over 150 albums of music to listen to. If the train is late or the weather bad I can summons a taxi - even if I don't know where I am, because the phone's GPS function will send my location to the taxi driver. GPS? I can use it for navigation. I'll be in the UK in three month's time and will preload it maps of areas I know I will be driving in. At a pinch I can read books on it. I can stream video onto it. I can make in-store payments with it even if I am without cash or credit cards.
In fact a smartphone with internet is a far more valuable and useful thing for the world's poorest people -- in India or China or Africa -- than it is for relatively wealthy people in the west. Even if it's a ten year old original iPhone (my god it's ten years already!) it lets them do things they could never do before at all. For me it's a mere convenience.
Yep. There's a good market in SA for 2nd hand smart phones. Those of us with contracts upgrade every 2 years and then have a not-too-old phone to bestow upon somebody. And there are always takers.

Smart phones are big business in Africa, and, as you say, they are an enabler.

The problem here in SA is that data is expensive. More so than in much of sub-Saharan Africa. And you have to buy it in big chunks. In Nigeria and Kenya you can buy small amounts of data that are good for 24 hours, so people buy data when they need it.

There's a lot of cheap phones coming on the market here now - often included by banks as part of a package. They aren't state of the art, but they have a camera that's good enough for QR codes, and you can do whatsapp and online banking.

You're right. They are not toys for rich brats, they are enablers.
Bobster
2017-07-06 20:23:00 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by Bobster
The guys who are soon going to be losing out are those without a smartphone. Increasingly I do a lot of my banking on a smartphone. I take it on the train with a memory card in it which gives me... well I haven't counted but certainly over 150 albums of music to listen to. If the train is late or the weather bad I can summons a taxi - even if I don't know where I am, because the phone's GPS function will send my location to the taxi driver. GPS? I can use it for navigation. I'll be in the UK in three month's time and will preload it maps of areas I know I will be driving in. At a pinch I can read books on it. I can stream video onto it. I can make in-store payments with it even if I am without cash or credit cards.
In fact a smartphone with internet is a far more valuable and useful thing for the world's poorest people -- in India or China or Africa -- than it is for relatively wealthy people in the west. Even if it's a ten year old original iPhone (my god it's ten years already!) it lets them do things they could never do before at all. For me it's a mere convenience.
I remember when I first travelled internationally in the late 80s. I carried so many kg of books of maps and an SLR camera and lenses and brochures and tickets and cash. By 1994 I'd added a mobile phone and a big clunky GPS (http://gei.aerobaticsweb.org/WORLD_95/depaper/ion1h.html .. I was given one of the units used at the Jan 1994 pre-worlds as thanks for helping during the contest). A couple of years after that I started carrying a Sony Hi8 video camera (and then Digital8) as well as my SLR.
Now I have quite literally travelled to the other side of the world with nothing but my passport, credit card, iPhone and USB cable, and two or three shorts/shirts/underwear -- and I can do everything I could do before carrying 10 kg of gear. Even the credit card is almost unnecessary, as I can use the iPhone to pay anywhere that PayWave works (or with a Samsung phone, anywhere with a mag stripe reader as well).
Bruce's post came to my mind today because I am in Madrid and have found a smart phone to be very useful.

EG, today we wanted to visit the museum of naval history.
Google Navigation gave me a route that included which metro route to take and train times. Then walked me from the destination metro station to the museum.

In the museum I used the OCR feature in Google Translate to translate signs on various exhibits.

Then we remembered a restaurant we'd eaten in 7 years ago. But what was it called? The interior used repurposed church pews and misericords, so I fired up Navigation again and asked for a route to "restaurant cathedral". Bingo! It found the restaurant, gave me a route and also offered me the option of calling a taxi via Uber.

Last time we were in Madrid we had the benefit of local knowledge and translation from my step-son, a resident. He's on honeymoon in the canaries, but yesterday I moved around easily with the tools that are available on a smartphone these days.

There's an option to put the boarding pass for my outbound flight on an app on the phone.

It helps that data connections in Madrid are fast and reliable (even on the metro), but the power these hand held devices now pack is considerable, and very useful.
Bigbird
2017-07-06 20:33:24 UTC
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Bruce's post came to my mind...
OMG, really?

Mark Jackson
2017-03-17 23:19:46 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
On Wednesday, May 17, 2000 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Tom Hiett
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post
- as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed
still cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run
uucp and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I
don't need to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly
serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a
hurdle that kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups
removed that hurdle allowing said stupid users access.
I only came onto Usenet a few months before September 1993 myself, which
seems rather late since I had gotten an ARPAnet address
(***@PARC-MAXC) a decade earlier. I recall some arguments
over whether a particular email discussion list should be gatewayed to
Usenet, the anti- people contending that it would destroy the quality of
the discourse.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it
get us out? - Will Rogers
~misfit~
2017-03-18 00:45:33 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
On Wednesday, May 17, 2000 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Tom Hiett
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post
- as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed
still cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run
uucp and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I
don't need to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly
serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a
hurdle that kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups
removed that hurdle allowing said stupid users access.
I only came onto Usenet a few months before September 1993 myself,
which seems rather late since I had gotten an ARPAnet address
over whether a particular email discussion list should be gatewayed to
Usenet, the anti- people contending that it would destroy the quality
of the discourse.
Heh!

I made my first foray into the 'digiverse' around 1993. That was the
earliest that having a computer for small business recording became
relatively affordable - at least in the circles I frequented. Previously
computing wasn't on my radar (being a mainly country 'boy' of modest means
with mainly country hobbies).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Bruce Hoult
2017-03-18 09:35:11 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post
- as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed
still cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run
uucp and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I
don't need to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly
serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a
hurdle that kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups
removed that hurdle allowing said stupid users access.
I only came onto Usenet a few months before September 1993 myself,
which seems rather late since I had gotten an ARPAnet address
over whether a particular email discussion list should be gatewayed to
Usenet, the anti- people contending that it would destroy the quality
of the discourse.
Heh!
I made my first foray into the 'digiverse' around 1993. That was the
earliest that having a computer for small business recording became
relatively affordable - at least in the circles I frequented. Previously
computing wasn't on my radar (being a mainly country 'boy' of modest means
with mainly country hobbies).
In 1986 I convinced the librarian at work (stockbroker) that access to programming forums on BIX would benefit my work, and I started to use a PC in the library connected to X.25 "PACNET". At the time that cost NZ$12 plus GST ($13.20) per "kilosegment" i.e. 1000 packets each containing up to 64 bytes -- but could be a lot less than that if you sat typing things interactively. So that's at least $216 per megabyte (and I believe the price for that service was NEVER reduced).

In 1989 I bought a computer for home and picked up a 2400 bps modem at MacWorld expo in San Francisco and got access to BIX via telnet (from dial-in to Actrix BBS). I don't remember exactly when this was operational, but it was definitely before the Loma Prieta earthquake on October 17. MacWorld bad been in February but I think at first Actrix themselves had only uucp access to mail, usenet etc. A proper IP connection and ability to use telnet and ftp came later in the year.

I didn't start using usenet in addition BIX for a while, even though it was available to me. Or maybe I didn't post for a while. The oldest message I can quickly find on Google Groups is from 21 November 1990. There are large numbers of them starting in December.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.lang.c++/67600TnK5uU/pmGPKhLS_94J

Or maybe no one was archiving usenet before that. I don't know.
Sir Tim
2017-03-18 11:53:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post
- as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed
still cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run
uucp and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I
don't need to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly
serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a
hurdle that kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups
removed that hurdle allowing said stupid users access.
I only came onto Usenet a few months before September 1993 myself,
which seems rather late since I had gotten an ARPAnet address
over whether a particular email discussion list should be gatewayed to
Usenet, the anti- people contending that it would destroy the quality
of the discourse.
Heh!
I made my first foray into the 'digiverse' around 1993. That was the
earliest that having a computer for small business recording became
relatively affordable - at least in the circles I frequented. Previously
computing wasn't on my radar (being a mainly country 'boy' of modest means
with mainly country hobbies).
In 1986 I convinced the librarian at work (stockbroker) that access to programming forums on BIX would benefit my work, and I started to use a PC in the library connected to X.25 "PACNET". At the time that cost NZ$12 plus GST ($13.20) per "kilosegment" i.e. 1000 packets each containing up to 64 bytes -- but could be a lot less than that if you sat typing things interactively. So that's at least $216 per megabyte (and I believe the price for that service was NEVER reduced).
In 1989 I bought a computer for home and picked up a 2400 bps modem at MacWorld expo in San Francisco and got access to BIX via telnet (from dial-in to Actrix BBS). I don't remember exactly when this was operational, but it was definitely before the Loma Prieta earthquake on October 17. MacWorld bad been in February but I think at first Actrix themselves had only uucp access to mail, usenet etc. A proper IP connection and ability to use telnet and ftp came later in the year.
I didn't start using usenet in addition BIX for a while, even though it was available to me. Or maybe I didn't post for a while.
I come from a very non-technical background but my son built his first
computer when he was 13 (he later went on to UCL, then to America,
joined Microsoft at just the right time and retired a rich man). He
persuaded me to buy a BBC Model B computer (made by Acorn) which, with
second processor, had a massive 64 kB of memory :-) This machine formed
the basis for any knowledge of computing that I have.

A few years later the same son came home from work with a Tulip PC. This
had, IIRC, an Intel 286 processor and was described by him as "a boss
machine, Dad" so I bought one myself.
Post by Bruce Hoult
The oldest message I can quickly find on Google Groups is from 21 November 1990. There are large numbers of them starting in December.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.lang.c++/67600TnK5uU/pmGPKhLS_94J
Or maybe no one was archiving usenet before that. I don't know.
I remember that the main Usenet archive was called Deja News, later
taken over by Google. According to Wiki "the Google Groups archive of
Usenet newsgroup postings dates back to 1981"
--
Sir Tim

“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
Bobster
2017-03-18 13:02:50 UTC
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On Saturday, 18 March 2017 13:53:45 UTC+2, Sir Tim wrot
Post by Sir Tim
I come from a very non-technical background but my son built his first
computer when he was 13 (he later went on to UCL, then to America,
joined Microsoft at just the right time and retired a rich man). He
persuaded me to buy a BBC Model B computer (made by Acorn) which, with
second processor, had a massive 64 kB of memory :-) This machine formed
the basis for any knowledge of computing that I have.
This is the real problem with this view of the world that requires people to jump through some hoops to get online. People shouldn't have to do that. The aim is to communicate, and if modern technology enables that for the layperson, so to speak, then all the better.

These know nothings, as the ~misfit~s of the world would have it, use whatsapp to form small common interest groups. What's more important? That they can do that easily and make good use of it, or that they wrestle with setup scripts and have to look for a server to connect to?
Sir Tim
2017-03-18 12:00:10 UTC
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Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
Post by ~misfit~
On Wednesday, May 17, 2000 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Tom Hiett
[snipped]
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post
- as if anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed
still cares about the subject.
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run
uucp and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I
don't need to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly
serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a
hurdle that kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups
removed that hurdle allowing said stupid users access.
I only came onto Usenet a few months before September 1993 myself, which
seems rather late since I had gotten an ARPAnet address
over whether a particular email discussion list should be gatewayed to
Usenet, the anti- people contending that it would destroy the quality of
the discourse.
There was trouble in paradise on the normally tranquil waters of
uk.rec.waterways in the mid 1990s. A canal email list was gatewayed to
the group and the "listers", who were used to a very relaxed regime, got
upset by frequent criticism from the Net Police.
--
Sir Tim

“Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional”
Mark Jackson
2017-03-18 15:48:33 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by Mark Jackson
Post by ~misfit~
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a
hurdle that kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups
removed that hurdle allowing said stupid users access.
I only came onto Usenet a few months before September 1993 myself, which
seems rather late since I had gotten an ARPAnet address
over whether a particular email discussion list should be gatewayed to
Usenet, the anti- people contending that it would destroy the quality of
the discourse.
There was trouble in paradise on the normally tranquil waters of
uk.rec.waterways in the mid 1990s. A canal email list was gatewayed to
the group and the "listers", who were used to a very relaxed regime, got
upset by frequent criticism from the Net Police.
This was before my time, but I've read that when the email gateway was
opened between Xerox PARC and the Xerox Data Systems (formerly
Scientific Data Systems) facilities in El Segundo, both of which had
well-developed email discussion lists, the conflict stemming from
differing norms and expectations took some time to work themselves out.

(I got onto the Xerox ARPAnet-connected mail system when our xerographic
technology group in Webster NY moved into a building wired with 3MB
Research Ethernet supporting three general-use Altos. My earliest
Usenet postings were to rec.autos.sport; I see they were in 1992 rather
than 1993.)
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it
get us out? - Will Rogers
pltrgyst
2017-03-23 03:17:47 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
Post by Bruce Hoult
What exactly have you got against Google Groups? I used to run uucp
and a local news server, but that was 25+ years ago and I don't need
to now. Google Groups seems to do a perfectly serviceable job.
Stupid users, on the other hand, are a universal constant.
Finding an NNTP server and configuring a newsreader used to be a hurdle that
kept the thickest of the thick off usenet. Google Groups removed that hurdle
allowing said stupid users access.
--
Bingo!
t***@gmail.com
2017-03-16 16:01:43 UTC
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Post by ~misfit~
<sigh> Another Google Groups user replying to a 17 year old post - as if
anyone previously involved still posts here or indeed still cares about the
subject.
How hard is it to look at the date of the post you're reading?
What the fuck is it to you.
You some kind of wannabe moderator asshole.
Again fuck off.
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