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Lewis is jinxing himself by winning the Hungarian GP
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l***@gmail.com
2018-07-29 14:13:08 UTC
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Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
Alister
2018-07-29 14:47:31 UTC
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Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
Time to break the jinx then
Just like England & Penalty shoot outs
--
The CPU has shifted, and become decentralized.
l***@gmail.com
2018-07-29 20:45:19 UTC
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Vettel is the most overrated and luckiest WC the sport has ever seen.

Now watch him win an undeserved 5th title this year.

He can only win races starting 1st-3rd on the grid.
Sir Tim
2018-07-29 20:58:58 UTC
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Post by l***@gmail.com
Vettel is the most overrated and luckiest WC the sport has ever seen.
Now watch him win an undeserved 5th title this year.
He can only win races starting 1st-3rd on the grid.
Utter balls, but of course you know that ;-)
--
Sir Tim
Brian W Lawrence
2018-07-30 09:19:48 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by l***@gmail.com
Vettel is the most overrated and luckiest WC the sport has ever seen.
Now watch him win an undeserved 5th title this year.
He can only win races starting 1st-3rd on the grid.
Utter balls, but of course you know that ;-)
It is balls, and the OP is annoying, but in this case he is factually
correct. Of Seb's 51 victories 31 came from pole, 15 from P2 & 5 from P3.

I was surprised. Mind you Lewis only has 5 wins from P4 or lower. MSC
had 7.
Bigbird
2018-07-30 11:45:22 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
Post by Sir Tim
Post by l***@gmail.com
Vettel is the most overrated and luckiest WC the sport has ever seen.
Now watch him win an undeserved 5th title this year.
He can only win races starting 1st-3rd on the grid.
Utter balls, but of course you know that ;-)
It is balls, and the OP is annoying, but in this case he is factually
correct. Of Seb's 51 victories 31 came from pole, 15 from P2 & 5 from P3.
I was surprised. Mind you Lewis only has 5 wins from P4 or lower. MSC
had 7.
Brian, how many times has each started outside the top 3? Do yo know?
(of course you do).
Brian W Lawrence
2018-07-30 13:55:36 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by Brian W Lawrence
Post by Sir Tim
Post by l***@gmail.com
Vettel is the most overrated and luckiest WC the sport has ever seen.
Now watch him win an undeserved 5th title this year.
He can only win races starting 1st-3rd on the grid.
Utter balls, but of course you know that ;-)
It is balls, and the OP is annoying, but in this case he is factually
correct. Of Seb's 51 victories 31 came from pole, 15 from P2 & 5 from P3.
I was surprised. Mind you Lewis only has 5 wins from P4 or lower. MSC
had 7.
Brian, how many times has each started outside the top 3? Do yo know?
(of course you do).
Ha! I don't know, but I'm sure I can find out.
Brian W Lawrence
2018-07-30 14:30:26 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
Post by Bigbird
Post by Brian W Lawrence
Post by Sir Tim
Post by l***@gmail.com
Vettel is the most overrated and luckiest WC the sport has ever seen.
Now watch him win an undeserved 5th title this year.
He can only win races starting 1st-3rd on the grid.
Utter balls, but of course you know that ;-)
It is balls, and the OP is annoying, but in this case he is factually
correct. Of Seb's 51 victories 31 came from pole, 15 from P2 & 5 from P3.
I was surprised. Mind you Lewis only has 5 wins from P4 or lower. MSC
had 7.
Brian, how many times has each started outside the top 3? Do yo know?
(of course you do).
Ha! I don't know, but I'm sure I can find out.
Schumacher started from:

Pole 67
2nd 47
3rd 53

He started 306 GPs, so 139 (45.4%) were outside top 3.

Hamilton

Pole 77
2nd 48
3rd 21

220 starts, 74 (33,6%).

Vettel

Pole 55
2nd 36
3rd 32

210 starts, 87 (41.4%).
Brian W Lawrence
2018-07-30 14:34:24 UTC
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Sorry, I should have said - I assume that the grid positions I was
looking at do not include any where a driver was relegated to the back
of the grid. I think that happened to MSC at least once.
M2T
2018-07-30 14:53:14 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
Sorry, I should have said - I assume that the grid positions I was
looking at do not include any where a driver was relegated to the back
of the grid. I think that happened to MSC at least once.
Monaco - cough!

Several drivers have made pole, but started from further back. Dumped
to back must be very rare.
Brian W Lawrence
2018-07-30 15:52:24 UTC
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Post by M2T
Post by Brian W Lawrence
Sorry, I should have said - I assume that the grid positions I was
looking at do not include any where a driver was relegated to the back
of the grid. I think that happened to MSC at least once.
Monaco - cough!
OK, I checked. That was 2006 and my data has him starting from P22 -
which was actually a pitlane start.
Post by M2T
Several drivers have made pole, but started from further back.  Dumped
to back must be very rare.
I have a vague memory that in a late season race (Japan maybe) the start
was aborted and MSC had to start from the back. Haven't located it though.

<pause>

Japan 1998, MSC trailed HAK by 4 points, qualified on Pole.

"The start of the race was aborted with the Prost car of Jarno Trulli
stalling from 14th position. Before the second attempt to start the
race, Schumacher's Ferrari moved forward from his starting position and
stalled as he put his car into gear. This promoted Häkkinen into pole
position as Schumacher started from the back of the grid."

He had a tyre problem and retired after 31 laps - at which point he was
in 3rd place, behind HAK & IRV.

That is listed as P1 in my data, because he lined up in P1 ready for the
start.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-30 20:44:06 UTC
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Post by M2T
cough!
douche
Calum
2018-07-30 09:29:27 UTC
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Post by Alister
Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
Time to break the jinx then
Just like England & Penalty shoot outs
So he's going to finish 4th then...
Dan the Man
2018-07-30 00:13:07 UTC
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Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
Jinxes are made to be broken; here in the States, Houston (baseball), Philadelphia (NFL Super Bowl), and Washington (hockey) have all won their first titles.
RzR
2018-07-30 10:45:57 UTC
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Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
that's ok, he will break schumi wins record soon, so he needs all the
victories he can get...even the jinxed ones...
l***@gmail.com
2018-07-30 11:44:28 UTC
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Lewis is a rainmaster, unlike Vettel.
Bigbird
2018-07-30 11:54:06 UTC
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Post by RzR
Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
that's ok, he will break schumi wins record soon, so he needs all the
victories he can get...even the jinxed ones...
MS 91/248

LH 67/220
Halmyre
2018-07-30 12:10:12 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by RzR
Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
that's ok, he will break schumi wins record soon, so he needs all the
victories he can get...even the jinxed ones...
MS 91/248
LH 67/220
Isn't MS 91 from 307? In which case Lewis is already ahead on wins/race. And he only has to win the next 70 on the trot to beat Fangio... (or the next 87 if you want to count Lee Wallard in the statistics)
M2T
2018-07-30 12:35:23 UTC
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Post by Halmyre
Post by Bigbird
Post by RzR
Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
that's ok, he will break schumi wins record soon, so he needs all the
victories he can get...even the jinxed ones...
MS 91/248
LH 67/220
Isn't MS 91 from 307? In which case Lewis is already ahead on wins/race. And he only has to win the next 70 on the trot to beat Fangio... (or the next 87 if you want to count Lee Wallard in the statistics)
It looks like seasons 2010 to 2012 have been discounted on the basis MS
never stood a chance of winning in the Mercedes. On that basis a couple
of seasons should be dropped from LH's total as he was driving a camel
for McLaren and Mercedes.
Sir Tim
2018-07-30 13:03:19 UTC
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Post by M2T
It looks like seasons 2010 to 2012 have been discounted on the basis MS
never stood a chance of winning in the Mercedes.
If that is the case it’s obviously ridiculous - might as well discount all
Fred’s races with the current McLaren team in order to make his record look
better.
--
Sir Tim
M2T
2018-07-30 14:04:16 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by M2T
It looks like seasons 2010 to 2012 have been discounted on the basis MS
never stood a chance of winning in the Mercedes.
If that is the case it’s obviously ridiculous - might as well discount all
Fred’s races with the current McLaren team in order to make his record look
better.
MS did start in 308 races.

https://formula1.markwessel.com/driver/Michael%20Schumacher
Bigbird
2018-07-30 14:28:06 UTC
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Post by M2T
Post by Halmyre
Post by Bigbird
Post by RzR
Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
that's ok, he will break schumi wins record soon, so he needs
all the victories he can get...even the jinxed ones...
MS 91/248
LH 67/220
Isn't MS 91 from 307? In which case Lewis is already ahead on
wins/race. And he only has to win the next 70 on the trot to beat
Fangio... (or the next 87 if you want to count Lee Wallard in the
statistics)
It looks like seasons 2010 to 2012 have been discounted on the basis
MS never stood a chance of winning in the Mercedes. On that basis a
couple of seasons should be dropped from LH's total as he was driving
a camel for McLaren and Mercedes.
Simply LH running total compared with MS running total when he got his
last win.
RzR
2018-07-31 14:02:41 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by M2T
Post by Halmyre
Post by Bigbird
Post by RzR
Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
that's ok, he will break schumi wins record soon, so he needs
all the victories he can get...even the jinxed ones...
MS 91/248
LH 67/220
Isn't MS 91 from 307? In which case Lewis is already ahead on
wins/race. And he only has to win the next 70 on the trot to beat
Fangio... (or the next 87 if you want to count Lee Wallard in the
statistics)
It looks like seasons 2010 to 2012 have been discounted on the basis
MS never stood a chance of winning in the Mercedes. On that basis a
couple of seasons should be dropped from LH's total as he was driving
a camel for McLaren and Mercedes.
Simply LH running total compared with MS running total when he got his
last win.
yeah, it does not work that way...all races count
Bigbird
2018-07-31 16:08:54 UTC
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Post by RzR
Post by Bigbird
Post by M2T
Post by Halmyre
Post by Bigbird
Post by RzR
Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
that's ok, he will break schumi wins record soon, so he
needs all the victories he can get...even the jinxed ones...
MS 91/248
LH 67/220
Isn't MS 91 from 307? In which case Lewis is already ahead on
wins/race. And he only has to win the next 70 on the trot to
beat Fangio... (or the next 87 if you want to count Lee Wallard
in the statistics)
It looks like seasons 2010 to 2012 have been discounted on the
basis MS never stood a chance of winning in the Mercedes. On that
basis a couple of seasons should be dropped from LH's total as he
was driving a camel for McLaren and Mercedes.
Simply LH running total compared with MS running total when he got
his last win.
yeah, it does not work that way...all races count
Sure it works that way. I'm comparing apples with apples...

...you want to compare something else, go ahead.

M2T
2018-07-30 12:11:52 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by RzR
Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
that's ok, he will break schumi wins record soon, so he needs all the
victories he can get...even the jinxed ones...
MS 91/248
LH 67/220
We could equal those up by adding Rosberg's wins to LH's total.
Edmund
2018-07-31 07:46:30 UTC
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Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
So? He is likely to win easily, he has by far the best car
and an obedient wingman in the second fastest car.
No matter is constant whining about Red Bull has the bast package
or Ferrari has the fastest car, all plain BS.

Edmund
Bigbird
2018-07-31 09:08:35 UTC
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Post by Edmund
Post by l***@gmail.com
Hungarian GP winner hasn't won the WDC in 14 years.
So? He is likely to win easily, he has by far the best car
and an obedient wingman in the second fastest car.
Wrong Fin, Kimi is not Lewis's wingman
Post by Edmund
No matter is constant whining
Yeah, I hate guys constantly whining about the same old thing... even
when they know it is plain BS.
Post by Edmund
about Red Bull has the bast package
or Ferrari has the fastest car, all plain BS.
l***@gmail.com
2018-07-31 12:17:44 UTC
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Kimi, hungary 2005
Button, hungary 2006
Hamilton, hungary 2007
Kovalainen, hungary 2008
Hamilton, hungary 2009
Webber, hungary 2010
Button, hungary 2011
Hamilton, hungary 2012
Hamilton, hungary 2013
Ricciardo, hungary 2014
Vettel, hungary 2015
Hamilton, hungary 2016
Vettel, hungary 2017
l***@gmail.com
2018-07-31 12:21:02 UTC
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Ferrari have the fastest and most reliable car this year. Not a single mechanical DNF for Vettel in 2018. Anyone can win the WDC with that car this year.
Brian W Lawrence
2018-07-31 14:03:15 UTC
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I was curious so looked at the top 10 race winners - incl. Fangio, who
is joint 11th with only one win less than Clark & Lauda.

Won PP P2 P3 Tot Str <3 P1-3% P4+%
=============================================================
M Schumacher 91 67 47 53 167 306 139 54.58 45.42 L Hamilton 67
77 48 21 146 220 74 66.36 33.64 A Prost 51 33 53 19 105
199 94 52.76 47.24 S Vettel 51 55 22 31 108 210 102 51.43
48.57 A Senna 41 65 22 31 118 161 43 73.29 26.71 F Alonso 32
22 15 28 65 302 237 21.52 78.48 N Mansell 31 32 24 31 87
187 100 46.52 53.48 J Stewart 27 17 16 17 50 99 49 50.51
49.49 J Clark 25 33 9 8 50 72 22 69.44 30.56 N Lauda 25
24 7 17 48 171 123 28.07 71.93 JM Fangio 24 29 13 4 46
51 5 90.20 9.80

Race wins from P1/P2/P3 & P4+

PP P2 P3 P4+ Wins
=========================================
M Schumacher 40 27 17 7 91
L Hamilton 43 16 3 5 67
A Prost 18 11 6 16 51
S Vettel 31 15 5 0 51
A Senna 29 5 5 2 41
F Alonso 14 4 6 8 32
N Mansell 17 9 1 4 31
J Stewart 8 6 5 8 27
J Clark 15 5 1 4 25
N Lauda 9 3 4 9 25
JM Fangio 15 7 2 0 24

Note: Fangio's 15 wins from pole include his two shared wins, where he
started from pole but completed the race in a different car.

It would seem that Prost has the most wins from outside the top 3 on
the grid. The next driver in the list of most wins is Nelson Piquet,
and it seems that his 23 wins came from PP (5), P2 (2) & P3 (1), which
means he's a close second with 15 wins from lower down (8th being the
lowest).

Nico Rosberg (also 23 wins) - PP (15), P2 (6) & P3 (2). P3 was lowest.
Damon Hill (22) - PP (7), P2 (11) & P3 (3). One from 4th.
Mika Hakkinen (20) - PP (10), P2 (5) & P3 (3). One 4th, one 5th.
Kimi Raikkonen (20) - PP (6), P2 (4) & P3 (2). 4th (2), 6th, 7th (3),
10th & 17th

Stirling Moss (16) is next - PP (8), P2 (5) & P3 (1). 6th & 7th

One of Moss' wins was completed in another car, but he started from
pole in his own.
Brian W Lawrence
2018-07-31 15:08:20 UTC
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Post by Brian W Lawrence
I was curious so looked at the top 10 race winners - incl. Fangio, who
is joint 11th with only one win less than Clark & Lauda.
Let's try that again.

Won PP P2 P3 Tot Str <3 P1-3% P4+%
=============================================================
M Schumacher 91 67 47 53 167 306 139 54.58 45.42
L Hamilton 67 77 48 21 146 220 74 66.36 33.64
A Prost 51 33 53 19 105 199 94 52.76 47.24
S Vettel 51 55 22 31 108 210 102 51.43 48.57
A Senna 41 65 22 31 118 161 43 73.29 26.71
F Alonso 32 22 15 28 65 302 237 21.52 78.48
N Mansell 31 32 24 31 87 187 100 46.52 53.48
J Stewart 27 17 16 17 50 99 49 50.51 49.49
J Clark 25 33 9 8 50 72 22 69.44 30.56
N Lauda 25 24 7 17 48 171 123 28.07 71.93
JM Fangio 24 29 13 4 46 51 5 90.20 9.80

Race wins from P1/P2/P3 & P4+

PP P2 P3 P4+ Wins
=========================================
M Schumacher 40 27 17 7 91
L Hamilton 43 16 3 5 67
A Prost 18 11 6 16 51
S Vettel 31 15 5 0 51
A Senna 29 5 5 2 41
F Alonso 14 4 6 8 32
N Mansell 17 9 1 4 31
J Stewart 8 6 5 8 27
J Clark 15 5 1 4 25
N Lauda 9 3 4 9 25
JM Fangio 15 7 2 0 24
Post by Brian W Lawrence
Note: Fangio's 15 wins from pole include his two shared wins, where he
started from pole but completed the race in a different car.
It would seem that Prost has the most wins from outside the top 3 on
the grid. The next driver in the list of most wins is Nelson Piquet,
and it seems that his 23 wins came from PP (5), P2 (2) & P3 (1), which
means he's a close second with 15 wins from lower down (8th being the
lowest).
Nico Rosberg (also 23 wins) - PP (15), P2 (6) & P3 (2). P3 was lowest.
Damon Hill (22) - PP (7), P2 (11) & P3 (3). One from 4th.
Mika Hakkinen (20) - PP (10), P2 (5) & P3 (3). One 4th, one 5th.
Kimi Raikkonen (20) - PP (6), P2 (4) & P3 (2). 4th (2), 6th, 7th (3),
10th & 17th
Stirling Moss (16) is next - PP (8), P2 (5) & P3 (1). 6th & 7th
One of Moss' wins was completed in another car, but he started from
pole in his own.
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