Discussion:
How hard was the VSC "algorithm" for Mercedes to get right?
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larkim
2018-07-02 08:15:26 UTC
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Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.

But yesterday?

Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.

Was there any scenario under which *not* pitting was a good idea yesterday?

The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the knife edge
in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on their tyre data.

We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working back
at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a complete
no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
Alister
2018-07-02 09:28:57 UTC
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Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which *not* pitting was a good idea yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the knife
edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on their tyre
data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working
back at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a
complete no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
& when the people behind dive for the pits follow them in next lap anyway
if only to fend of the new tyre advantage.
--
"I wants your body, Mrs Ogg."
-- Casanunda makes his move
(Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies)
larkim
2018-07-02 10:45:02 UTC
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Post by Alister
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which *not* pitting was a good idea yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the knife
edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on their tyre
data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working
back at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a
complete no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
& when the people behind dive for the pits follow them in next lap anyway
if only to fend of the new tyre advantage.
--
"I wants your body, Mrs Ogg."
-- Casanunda makes his move
(Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies)
Is it true he passed the pit lane entrance twice? If so, did the RBR and
Ferraris pass it once, then he pass again, or did they pass it the first
lap and only come in on the second?
M2T
2018-07-02 12:33:09 UTC
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Post by larkim
Post by Alister
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which *not* pitting was a good idea yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the knife
edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on their tyre
data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working
back at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a
complete no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
& when the people behind dive for the pits follow them in next lap anyway
if only to fend of the new tyre advantage.
--
"I wants your body, Mrs Ogg."
-- Casanunda makes his move
(Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies)
Is it true he passed the pit lane entrance twice? If so, did the RBR and
Ferraris pass it once, then he pass again, or did they pass it the first
lap and only come in on the second?
One commentator said he'd passed the pits twice, but he didn't.
Mercedes had 40 seconds from the VSC announcement to make a decision.
They delayed in the hope that the VSC would last longer than it did.
Unfortunately Bottas did a great job of getting his car out of the way,
the track was cleared very quickly.

All that money & tech completely wasted when push came to shove.
Probably let down by slow keyboard skills.
larkim
2018-07-02 15:52:35 UTC
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Post by M2T
Post by larkim
Post by Alister
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which *not* pitting was a good idea yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the knife
edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on their tyre
data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working
back at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a
complete no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
& when the people behind dive for the pits follow them in next lap anyway
if only to fend of the new tyre advantage.
--
"I wants your body, Mrs Ogg."
-- Casanunda makes his move
(Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies)
Is it true he passed the pit lane entrance twice? If so, did the RBR and
Ferraris pass it once, then he pass again, or did they pass it the first
lap and only come in on the second?
One commentator said he'd passed the pits twice, but he didn't.
Mercedes had 40 seconds from the VSC announcement to make a decision.
They delayed in the hope that the VSC would last longer than it did.
Unfortunately Bottas did a great job of getting his car out of the way,
the track was cleared very quickly.
All that money & tech completely wasted when push came to shove.
Probably let down by slow keyboard skills.
You'd have thought they have a single light on on their info panels on the
pitwall - "VSC pit now" and "SC pit now" - if it's green, signal to pit,
if it's red, drive on by. No thinking required.

There isn't enough time to think, your car could be 5s from the pit entry
so it should be a knee jerk response. But just as in Australia where they
had the calculation wrong, they got this one wrong.

In hindsight, better to cock that up in a race when the car is going to fail
anyway, but really Mercedes should do better.

Thanks for the info about the pitlane passing - I didn't think Hamilton
got two bites at the cherry, good to have that confirmed.
DumbedDownUSA
2018-07-02 19:41:51 UTC
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Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good idea
yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the
knife edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on
their tyre data.
In which case they weren't wrong were they. Hamilton shredded his tyres
despite being 10 laps newer than the rest.
Post by larkim
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working
back at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a
complete no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
--
If I am not the real DDUSA I must be the overweight attention seeking
loser sitting on my mothers couch in underpants I haven't changed in a
week.
Trump averages eight falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
M2T
2018-07-02 20:01:07 UTC
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Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good idea
yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the
knife edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on
their tyre data.
In which case they weren't wrong were they. Hamilton shredded his tyres
despite being 10 laps newer than the rest.
Who knows. The cock up put Hamilton behind 3 cars instead of being in
front and controlling the race, as Verstappen did when his tyres
starting blistering.

More proof Pirelli are fucking up F1 with rubbish rubber and demands
that teams choose tyres many weeks before the races. Austria has had
blistering problems in the past, Pirelli choose to ignore them.
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by larkim
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working
back at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a
complete no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
DumbedDownUSA
2018-07-03 06:09:51 UTC
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Post by M2T
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good idea
yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the
knife edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on
their tyre data.
In which case they weren't wrong were they. Hamilton shredded his
tyres despite being 10 laps newer than the rest.
Who knows. The cock up put Hamilton behind 3 cars instead of being in
front and controlling the race, as Verstappen did when his tyres
starting blistering.
Yes indeed, who knows what the other teams amy have done if Hamilton
had pitted...

I think that is kinda the point.
Post by M2T
More proof Pirelli are fucking up F1 with rubbish rubber and demands
that teams choose tyres many weeks before the races. Austria has had
blistering problems in the past, Pirelli choose to ignore them.
--
If I am not the real DDUSA I must be the overweight attention seeking
loser sitting on my mothers couch in underpants I haven't changed in a
week.
Trump averages eight falsehoods a day; how you doin'?
build
2018-07-03 08:30:06 UTC
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Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by M2T
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good idea
yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the
knife edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on
their tyre data.
In which case they weren't wrong were they. Hamilton shredded his
tyres despite being 10 laps newer than the rest.
Who knows. The cock up put Hamilton behind 3 cars instead of being in
front and controlling the race, as Verstappen did when his tyres
starting blistering.
Yes indeed, who knows what the other teams amy have done if Hamilton
had pitted...
I do. It's not rocket science, it's simply common sense.
Post by DumbedDownUSA
I think that is kinda the point.
Post by M2T
More proof Pirelli are fucking up F1 with rubbish rubber and demands
that teams choose tyres many weeks before the races. Austria has had
blistering problems in the past, Pirelli choose to ignore them.
Bigbird
2018-07-03 08:41:40 UTC
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Post by build
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by M2T
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good idea
yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on
the knife edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy
based on their tyre data.
In which case they weren't wrong were they. Hamilton shredded
his tyres despite being 10 laps newer than the rest.
Who knows. The cock up put Hamilton behind 3 cars instead of
being in front and controlling the race, as Verstappen did when
his tyres starting blistering.
Yes indeed, who knows what the other teams amy have done if Hamilton
had pitted...
I do.
Say you.
Post by build
It's not rocket science, it's simply common sense.
...which does not support your assertion in any shape or form.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-03 22:38:43 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Say you.
You leg humping piece of shit fucking cunt.
Post by Bigbird
...which does not support your assertion in any shape or form.
Get fucked you useless cocksucker asshole idiot.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-03 23:02:03 UTC
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On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 2:41:42 AM UTC-6, Bigbird wrote:

Hey leg humper. Get a fucking life.
Go back to your dumb diseased boyfriend.
Pair of fucking losers.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-03 23:05:24 UTC
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On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 2:41:42 AM UTC-6, Bigbird wrote:

Hey leg humper. Get your rotten teeth pulled.
It's affecting your mental health.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-03 23:14:49 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
in any shape or form.
You are an expert on shape and form.
Like your boyfriend laying on the couch.
With his fat cunt hanging out.
Ready for you to chew on.
build
2018-07-04 03:35:32 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by build
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by M2T
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good idea
yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on
the knife edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy
based on their tyre data.
In which case they weren't wrong were they. Hamilton shredded
his tyres despite being 10 laps newer than the rest.
Who knows. The cock up put Hamilton behind 3 cars instead of
being in front and controlling the race, as Verstappen did when
his tyres starting blistering.
Yes indeed, who knows what the other teams amy have done if Hamilton
had pitted...
I do.
Say you.
Yes, I do. And, as you are no dummy, you do too. LOL.
For others who are not as clever as you this might help:

Post by Bigbird
Post by build
It's not rocket science, it's simply common sense.
...which does not support your assertion in any shape or form.
That which is obvious does not require support.

beers,
build
~misfit~
2018-07-04 05:19:34 UTC
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Post by build
Post by Bigbird
Post by build
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by M2T
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or
harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good idea
yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on
the knife edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy
based on their tyre data.
In which case they weren't wrong were they. Hamilton shredded
his tyres despite being 10 laps newer than the rest.
Who knows. The cock up put Hamilton behind 3 cars instead of
being in front and controlling the race, as Verstappen did when
his tyres starting blistering.
Yes indeed, who knows what the other teams amy have done if
Hamilton had pitted...
I do.
Say you.
Yes, I do. And, as you are no dummy, you do too. LOL.
http://youtu.be/eHSaCH8e5rQ
Priestley's been out of the business for too long to be giving definitive
answers. When Hass / Ferrari were having their pit stop issues earlier I
replied to someone in the comments under one of his videos that IMO Ferrai
should have a sensor over-ride button on the gun for when the wheel man
*knows* the wheel hasn't gone on but the sensor says it has. (The wheelman
was obviously trying to stop the car leaving the pits when the wheel hadn't
been changed but the light had gone green...)

Priestley replied to my comment saying I had it all wrong, the wheel men had
a switch on the gun to push when the job had been done their are no sensors
involved. The very next race Sky did a feature on Ferrari's wheel gun sensor
system and how the FIA were investigating it to see if it was safe... He
never did correct himself in the comments even though I asked him if he'd
like to.

So take his comments with a grain of salt (even if he does reply to your
question in his Q&A videos). He's been wrong a few times now - sometimes he
even admits it.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Post by build
Post by Bigbird
Post by build
It's not rocket science, it's simply common sense.
...which does not support your assertion in any shape or form.
That which is obvious does not require support.
beers,
build
Bigbird
2018-07-04 21:13:30 UTC
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Post by build
Post by Bigbird
Post by build
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by M2T
Post by DumbedDownUSA
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good
idea yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they
were on the knife edge in terms of one stop being a
viable strategy based on their tyre data.
In which case they weren't wrong were they. Hamilton
shredded his tyres despite being 10 laps newer than the
rest.
Who knows. The cock up put Hamilton behind 3 cars instead of
being in front and controlling the race, as Verstappen did
when his tyres starting blistering.
Yes indeed, who knows what the other teams amy have done if
Hamilton had pitted...
I do.
Say you.
Yes, I do. And, as you are no dummy, you do too. LOL.
http://youtu.be/eHSaCH8e5rQ
No, you clearly don't. The first few seconds of the opinion piece you
put forward does nothing to support a cast iron view, rather the
opposite.

If there is something later you meant to refer to you'll have to be
less vague; as it stands you have simply undermined your own words and
verified that YOU do NOT know... just as that fella admitted he did not
know.
Post by build
Post by Bigbird
Post by build
It's not rocket science, it's simply common sense.
...which does not support your assertion in any shape or form.
That which is obvious does not require support.
Exactly.

So where's you support?

No support, no argument.

build
2018-07-03 04:54:06 UTC
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Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which *not* pitting was a good idea yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the knife edge
in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on their tyre data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working back
at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a complete
no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
If Lewis pitted the others would have split their strategy. Considering that it's not so cut and dried. However after the event with 20/20 hindsight Lewis was better off pitting anyway, than staying out. Hindsight is amazingly clear.
M2T
2018-07-03 09:57:38 UTC
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Post by build
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which *not* pitting was a good idea yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the knife edge
in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on their tyre data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working back
at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a complete
no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
If Lewis pitted the others would have split their strategy. Considering that it's not so cut and dried. However after the event with 20/20 hindsight Lewis was better off pitting anyway, than staying out. Hindsight is amazingly clear.
Which cars would stay out and where would that have left them, timewise,
in relation to LH had he pitted?

I typed that slowly so your befuddle brain could understand the question.

BTW - both Ferrari & RB had pulled out tyres for 2 cars before LH got to
the pit entrance, making their intentions very clear.
Bigbird
2018-07-03 10:25:52 UTC
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Post by M2T
Post by build
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good idea
yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the
knife edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on
their tyre data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers
working back at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that
it was a complete no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
If Lewis pitted the others would have split their strategy.
Considering that it's not so cut and dried. However after the event
with 20/20 hindsight Lewis was better off pitting anyway, than
staying out. Hindsight is amazingly clear.
Which cars would stay out and where would that have left them,
timewise, in relation to LH had he pitted?
I typed that slowly so your befuddle brain could understand the question.
BTW - both Ferrari & RB had pulled out tyres for 2 cars before LH got
to the pit entrance, making their intentions very clear.
...making their options clear.
larkim
2018-07-03 11:49:23 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by M2T
Post by build
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which not pitting was a good idea
yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the
knife edge in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on
their tyre data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers
working back at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that
it was a complete no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
If Lewis pitted the others would have split their strategy.
Considering that it's not so cut and dried. However after the event
with 20/20 hindsight Lewis was better off pitting anyway, than
staying out. Hindsight is amazingly clear.
Which cars would stay out and where would that have left them,
timewise, in relation to LH had he pitted?
I typed that slowly so your befuddle brain could understand the question.
BTW - both Ferrari & RB had pulled out tyres for 2 cars before LH got
to the pit entrance, making their intentions very clear.
...making their options clear.
Indeed.

If Ham had pitted (lap 15 of a 71 lap race) there was at least a potential
for a team to imagine that Ham needed a 2 stop race. So staying out for a
1 stop to be taken later when tyre wear would guarantee no need for a 2nd
stop was at least a possibility. Give one car that option, and one car the
VSC pitstop, split the strategy and see what worked on the day.

That was my first thought when Hamilton continued - the other teams were
stopping too soon, and therefore he'd be on a front-running 1 stop tyre
management strategy, and the others had dipped in for a banzai 2 stop tyre
strategy with the first stop getting the advantage of a short off-track time
due to it being under VSC. I was unconcerned at the time (perhaps good
reason why I'm not a F1 strategist).

As it turned out, I might have been partly right - Hamilton needed a 2
stop as did Ricciardo. For both of them, that might be attributable to
having to follow and try to pass, so knackered their tyres. But it might
also have been partly down to a stop strategy that was less than optimal
(a 1 stop on lap 15 wouldn't have been anyone's preferred split, surely?)

Maybe that's why the algorithm was slightly harder to read, though with
hindsight Merc certainly saw that the die was cast quite quickly, so perhaps
there never was any real doubt that a 1 stop approach from lap 15 should
have been doable.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-04 03:27:13 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
...making their options clear.
As you as a homosexual.
Alan Baker
2018-07-03 20:31:27 UTC
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Post by M2T
Post by build
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which *not* pitting was a good idea yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the knife edge
in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on their tyre data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working back
at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a complete
no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
If Lewis pitted the others would have split their strategy.
Considering that it's not so cut and dried. However after the event
with 20/20 hindsight Lewis was better off pitting anyway, than staying
out. Hindsight is amazingly clear.
Which cars would stay out and where would that have left them, timewise,
in relation to LH had he pitted?
I typed that slowly so your befuddle brain could understand the question.
BTW - both Ferrari & RB had pulled out tyres for 2 cars before LH got to
the pit entrance, making their intentions very clear.
Really? They couldn't have pulled out two sets and then, if Lewis had
pitted, only used one?

That couldn't have happened, hmm?
M2T
2018-07-03 21:15:06 UTC
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Post by Alan Baker
Post by M2T
Post by build
Post by larkim
Clearly at some points in the race it would be easier or harder.
But yesterday?
Are we in a potential pit window - yes.
Can we one stop from here - yes.
Is there a VSC pitting advantage - yes.
Was there any scenario under which *not* pitting was a good idea yesterday?
The only thing I could see was that Merc thought they were on the knife edge
in terms of one stop being a viable strategy based on their tyre data.
We are often told that there are teams of strategy engineers working back
at the team HQ, surely the conditions were such that it was a complete
no-brainer (which I think they have admitted)?
If Lewis pitted the others would have split their strategy.
Considering that it's not so cut and dried. However after the event
with 20/20 hindsight Lewis was better off pitting anyway, than
staying out. Hindsight is amazingly clear.
Which cars would stay out and where would that have left them,
timewise, in relation to LH had he pitted?
I typed that slowly so your befuddle brain could understand the question.
BTW - both Ferrari & RB had pulled out tyres for 2 cars before LH got
to the pit entrance, making their intentions very clear.
Really? They couldn't have pulled out two sets and then, if Lewis had
pitted, only used one?
That couldn't have happened, hmm?
LH would have been behind ? Which cars would be left out and how much
shit might that have created within the teams.

At worse LH would have been behind 2 cars, who were not running
together, giving him plenty of opportunity to pass them.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-03 22:42:45 UTC
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Post by M2T
I typed that slowly
Fuck you. Brain dead asshole.
Idiot. Cunt face. Useless piece of shit.
Loser.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-04 03:23:04 UTC
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Post by M2T
I typed that slowly
But your boyfriend fucked you up the ass with speed.
Fuck you, crybaby, whiny, rotten toothed, loser.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-04 03:25:20 UTC
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BTW
BTW? You fucking raging homosexual, cornholing faggot.
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