Discussion:
Why do we love or hate or ignore particular drivers?
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bra
2017-08-28 15:52:43 UTC
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The Alonso obsession eludes me. I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton, but Alonso?

Fifty years ago, in British drag racing, I instinctively cheered for Alan 'Bootsie' Herridge and booed Clive Skilton, although I knew neither of them. Why? Bootsie was a cheeky short-arsed Sarth London lad wot worked on old motors, and Clive was a professional engineer who drove an E-type and bought ready-built dragster engines direct from the States.

They were both skilled and determined racers, though. So is Alonso. Where do the Alonso insults come from?
.
2017-08-28 16:01:34 UTC
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Post by bra
I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton
Sure you do, his being black is more than enough for you.
Post by bra
Where do the Alonso insults come from?
The exact same place where he gets his birth control - his personality.
--
My mirror continues its finite yet unbounded journey.
geoff
2017-08-28 20:10:49 UTC
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Post by bra
The Alonso obsession eludes me. I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton, but Alonso?
Fifty years ago, in British drag racing, I instinctively cheered for Alan 'Bootsie' Herridge and booed Clive Skilton, although I knew neither of them. Why? Bootsie was a cheeky short-arsed Sarth London lad wot worked on old motors, and Clive was a professional engineer who drove an E-type and bought ready-built dragster engines direct from the States.
They were both skilled and determined racers, though. So is Alonso. Where do the Alonso insults come from?
Same place where your 'understanding' of Hamilhate comes from.

Or because of the increasing apparent blind adulation above what others
of equal skill are afforded.

Or maybe the constant loud and vocal whinging.

geoff
bra
2017-08-28 21:42:49 UTC
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On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 8:52:45 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:
Bootsie was a cheeky [adjective deleted :-)] west-of-London lad wot worked on old motors, and Clive was a professional engineer who drove an E-type and bought ready-built dragster engines direct from the States.

I was a snob. Both were great racers. Other snobs booed the other way. Silly, eh.
Sir Tim
2017-08-28 21:54:16 UTC
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Post by bra
The Alonso obsession eludes me.
I assume you mean the obsessional hatred (i.e. Dotty) rather than the
obsessional hero-worship (Edmund).
Post by bra
I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton
I don't. Why?
(Apart from the fact that he's black and wears earrings, which seems to be
enough reason for News).

<snip>
Post by bra
Where do the Alonso insults come from?
Could be something to with the fact that he screwed McLaren right royally
and has a reputation for being the reverse of a "team player".
--
Sir Tim
bra
2017-08-28 22:16:23 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by bra
I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton
I don't. Why?
(Apart from the fact that he's black and wears earrings, which seems to be
enough reason for News).
Black-and-grinning-while-wearing-earrings: that will do it for Middle England.
"How dare a chap from Stevenage be so cocky AND black? After all, Stevenage built Vincents, good lord."

Okay, I get that Alonso has been a loose cannon. I regret that Jacques similarly went off course when he pocketed most of BAR's total budget. Jacques was already wealthy and could have "let" BAR put money into the car.
Bobster
2017-08-29 06:59:14 UTC
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Post by bra
Black-and-grinning-while-wearing-earrings: that will do it for Middle England.
Those attitudes are around, but not only in "Middle England" and they're not common to all "Middle Englanders". Watch cricket. See how the crowds get behind Moeen Ali. Sure, there's the odd asshat who thinks that Ali somehow isn't English and shouldn't be playing for England (despite having been born there, schooled there, learning the game there), but most fans get on with giving him a good cheer.
bra
2017-08-29 16:00:29 UTC
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Post by Bobster
Post by bra
Black-and-grinning-while-wearing-earrings: that will do it for Middle England.
Those attitudes are around, but not only in "Middle England" and they're not common to all "Middle Englanders". Watch cricket. See how the crowds get behind Moeen Ali. Sure, there's the odd asshat who thinks that Ali somehow isn't English and shouldn't be playing for England (despite having been born there, schooled there, learning the game there), but most fans get on with giving him a good cheer.
I agree on cricket. I seem to remember fans cheering Imran Khan whether or not he was captaining Pakistan or earlier on county sides --- didn't they call him "The Sun King" or something?

Gary Sobers too --- a universally-admired black man playing for the West Indies and for Nottingham [?], throughout the Enoch Powell years!

But in cricket a player's every single movement and every posture and reaction marks their quality --- transparent, right in front of us. Whereas in F1, fans can always argue the car or the track or the tyres or the money or the race engineer --- besides which, we don't actually SEE the driver drive.
alister
2017-08-31 22:36:54 UTC
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Post by bra
Post by Sir Tim
Post by bra
I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton
I don't. Why?
(Apart from the fact that he's black and wears earrings, which seems to
be enough reason for News).
Black-and-grinning-while-wearing-earrings: that will do it for Middle England.
"How dare a chap from Stevenage be so cocky AND black? After all,
Stevenage built Vincents, good lord."
I guess you are not very familiar with Stevenage.
it may be in up marked Hertfordshire but it is probably one of the
Chaviest parts :-( still at least it is not Essex :-)
Post by bra
Okay, I get that Alonso has been a loose cannon. I regret that Jacques
similarly went off course when he pocketed most of BAR's total budget.
Jacques was already wealthy and could have "let" BAR put money into the
car.
--
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in anything less portable than a number two pencil.
Geoff
2017-08-31 22:58:56 UTC
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Post by alister
Post by bra
Black-and-grinning-while-wearing-earrings: that will do it for Middle England.
"How dare a chap from Stevenage be so cocky AND black? After all,
Stevenage built Vincents, good lord."
I guess you are not very familiar with Stevenage.
it may be in up marked Hertfordshire but it is probably one of the
Chaviest parts :-( still at least it is not Essex :-)
Are they going to rename it Lewisage, or will the existing Lewisham
suffice ?

Definitely won't be a Ferninland or Alphonage though ...

geoff
alister
2017-09-01 09:24:52 UTC
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Post by Geoff
Post by alister
Post by bra
Black-and-grinning-while-wearing-earrings: that will do it for Middle England.
"How dare a chap from Stevenage be so cocky AND black? After all,
Stevenage built Vincents, good lord."
I guess you are not very familiar with Stevenage.
it may be in up marked Hertfordshire but it is probably one of the
Chaviest parts :-( still at least it is not Essex :-)
Are they going to rename it Lewisage, or will the existing Lewisham
suffice ?
Definitely won't be a Ferninland or Alphonage though ...
geoff
To be honest I think even the plan to name a road Hamilton Drive has
faded, the council haven't even updated the wall of fame at the leisure
centre with his 2016 runner up (although I suppose now he has 3 WDC's on
the wall as well as his previous runner up places they have decided it is
not worth it (& need the space for the future WDC's :-) )
--
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Filing almost everything under "the".
geoff
2017-09-01 11:55:38 UTC
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Post by alister
Post by Geoff
Are they going to rename it Lewisage, or will the existing Lewisham
suffice ?
Definitely won't be a Ferninland or Alphonage though ...
geoff
To be honest I think even the plan to name a road Hamilton Drive has
faded,
Hamilton Drive ? Ok, and maybe an Alfonso Whinge as well.

geoff
Bigbird
2017-09-01 13:19:57 UTC
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Post by geoff
Post by alister
Post by Geoff
Are they going to rename it Lewisage, or will the existing
Lewisham suffice ?
Definitely won't be a Ferninland or Alphonage though ...
geoff
To be honest I think even the plan to name a road Hamilton Drive has
faded,
Hamilton Drive ? Ok, and maybe an Alfonso Whinge as well.
I was biting my tongue on this one but...

Why does Alonso need an English road named after him; he has a whole
Whine region in Spain.
Alan LeHun
2017-09-01 14:36:15 UTC
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Post by geoff
Hamilton Drive ? Ok, and maybe an Alfonso Whinge as well.
Ricardo Close?
Bottas Chase?
Alonso Walk?

or

Vettle Avenue?
--
Alan LeHun
Bigbird
2017-09-01 15:14:08 UTC
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Post by Alan LeHun
Post by geoff
Hamilton Drive ? Ok, and maybe an Alfonso Whinge as well.
Ricardo Close?
Bottas Chase?
Alonso Walk?
or
Vettle Avenue?
Hamilton Row
Alonso Turnpike
Verstappen Expressway
Force India Duel Carriageway
Mornington Crescent
Bigbird
2017-09-02 09:51:11 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan LeHun
Post by geoff
Hamilton Drive ? Ok, and maybe an Alfonso Whinge as well.
Ricardo Close?
Bottas Chase?
Alonso Walk?
or
Vettle Avenue?
Hamilton Row
Alonso Turnpike
Verstappen Expressway
Force India Duel Carriageway
Mornington Crescent
Stroll Promenade
Massa Terrace

Geddit???

Oh nevermind.
~misfit~
2017-09-02 12:25:29 UTC
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Post by Bigbird
Post by Bigbird
Post by Alan LeHun
Post by geoff
Hamilton Drive ? Ok, and maybe an Alfonso Whinge as well.
Ricardo Close?
Bottas Chase?
Alonso Walk?
or
Vettle Avenue?
Hamilton Row
Alonso Turnpike
Verstappen Expressway
Force India Duel Carriageway
Mornington Crescent
Stroll Promenade
Massa Terrace
Geddit???
Oh nevermind.
LOL. YFI.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
geoff
2017-09-02 00:55:23 UTC
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Post by Alan LeHun
Post by geoff
Hamilton Drive ? Ok, and maybe an Alfonso Whinge as well.
Ricardo Close?
Bottas Chase?
Alonso Walk?
or
Vettle Avenue?
Ricciardo Road
Bottas Boulevard
Alonso Alleyway
and Vettel Viaduct

geoff
alister
2017-09-02 06:08:09 UTC
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Post by Alan LeHun
Post by geoff
Hamilton Drive ? Ok, and maybe an Alfonso Whinge as well.
Ricardo Close?
Bottas Chase?
Alonso Walk?
or
Vettle Avenue?
Ricciardo Road Bottas Boulevard Alonso Alleyway and Vettel Viaduct
geoff
All very good & amusing

The thing was Stevenage Borough Council were seriously considering it in
the case of Lewis.
--
A log may float in a river, but that does not make it a crocodile.
Bobster
2017-09-02 06:44:27 UTC
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Post by alister
Post by Alan LeHun
Post by geoff
Hamilton Drive ? Ok, and maybe an Alfonso Whinge as well.
Ricardo Close?
Bottas Chase?
Alonso Walk?
or
Vettle Avenue?
Ricciardo Road Bottas Boulevard Alonso Alleyway and Vettel Viaduct
geoff
All very good & amusing
The thing was Stevenage Borough Council were seriously considering it in
the case of Lewis.
I wonder if his leaving England for Switzerland had anything to do with it?
bra
2017-09-01 15:04:05 UTC
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Post by alister
Post by bra
"How dare a chap from Stevenage be so cocky AND black? After all,
Stevenage built Vincents, good lord."
I guess you are not very familiar with Stevenage.
it may be in up marked Hertfordshire but it is probably one of the
Chaviest parts :-( still at least it is not Essex :-)
The Stevenage chap who raced this car used to work at the Vincent factory, and years later John Surtees remembered him as "a complete madman". He later ran a small foundry and latterly a scrapyard that specialized in breaking US cars that USAF servicemen chose to leave behind as 'written off' rather than take them back home. Import duty was payable on left-behind cars, so the numerous Oldsmobiles had to become 'accident write-offs'. Racers lined up to buy the undamaged V-8 engines from Denis. His name did not sound like that of a "chav": Denis Burdett-Coutts --- yes, like the banking family. Loading Image...
Calum
2017-08-30 13:09:37 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
Post by bra
I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton
I don't. Why?
Off-the-scale petulance when dealing with media, and indeed his own
team-mates, when things aren't going swimmingly.
Bobster
2017-08-30 13:34:35 UTC
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Post by Sir Tim
I assume you mean the obsessional hatred (i.e. Dotty) rather than the
obsessional hero-worship (Edmund).
Post by bra
I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton
I don't. Why?
"Hate" is, for me, too strong a word. But I've not always been impressed by him. He's given the impression of being a bit to pre-occupied and acting like a prima donna. There were complaints last year that he wasn't showing proper respect during the host country's national anthem. Plus there's the other issues I've referred to already.

I don't "hate" Hamilton, but I'm not a fan either.

For lovers and haters it's a binary world. For ".", for example, there are only two camps - love Hamilton or hate him. And loving him requires that you put Alonso down at every possible opportunity.

It's a bit like the story that James Corden told about going to a pub during a soccer match. There were a few well oiled types wearing England shirts. First of all they chanted "if you love Eng-er-land STAND UP!". So Corden stood. Then the chant changed to "if you hate the French STAND UP!". Corden sat down - and took some abuse for it. He could love England but not hate France. They couldn't. To love England, in their minds, required hating the French.

Life is too short.

In most cases I have sort of split feelings. I might admire a driver for his skill in getting a race car around a track, but not like other aspects of him. I thought Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna were fantastic race drivers with questionable sportsmanship. I like Barrichello as a personality, but I'm not convinced that he's that good a race driver. It's realistic and OK to have these sort of nuanced or multi-faceted evaluations of drivers.
Mark Jackson
2017-08-30 13:38:00 UTC
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Post by Bobster
In most cases I have sort of split feelings. I might admire a driver
for his skill in getting a race car around a track, but not like
other aspects of him. I thought Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna
were fantastic race drivers with questionable sportsmanship. I like
Barrichello as a personality, but I'm not convinced that he's that
good a race driver. It's realistic and OK to have these sort of
nuanced or multi-faceted evaluations of drivers.
+1
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Why do people say Putin is playing chess and Trump is playing
checkers when it is obvious Putin is playing poker and Trump
is playing Calvinball? Congressional Republicans, meanwhile,
are playing Jenga plus Hungry Hungry Hippos. - John Holbo
Bobster
2017-08-29 05:25:20 UTC
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Post by bra
The Alonso obsession eludes me. I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton, but Alonso?
Fifty years ago, in British drag racing, I instinctively cheered for Alan 'Bootsie' Herridge and booed Clive Skilton, although I knew neither of them. Why? Bootsie was a cheeky short-arsed Sarth London lad wot worked on old motors, and Clive was a professional engineer who drove an E-type and bought ready-built dragster engines direct from the States.
They were both skilled and determined racers, though. So is Alonso. Where do the Alonso insults come from?
I admire Alonso the race driver. He is fast, he is canny, he is very consistent and usually gives the best performance he can give. Think back to Australia earlier this year where he fought off two faster cars for several laps even though there were no points at stake. You wanted go get past him? Fine, he was going to make you work very hard.

Button said Alonso was the toughest team mate he ever had. Said something like "when he has his best day you don't even see him. When you have your best day he's right behind you and you can't shake him and you can't believe it."

But out of the car, he's another matter. There was some talk by the Sky team at Spa as to where Alonso might go. They said that everybody in the pitlane agrees that he's one of the top 3 drivers in F1, but that doesn't mean you'd sign him. Merc and Ferrari are both said to not want him. He's tried to black mail his own team. I regret his current position in that it keeps a top driver out of a top car, but he is in many ways the architect of his own misfortunes. Even when he's been given a second chance.

Ferrari thought they had him early on, but he then signed with Renault after giving various indications to Ferrari. Years later they signed him again, but he walked out with years still to run on his contract. Back to McLaren where he'd had a huge falling out because he thought they could give him a winning car. He was wrong.

Mind you, there are things to dislike about Hamilton. He had a large part to play in the bust up at McLaren. There was the episode where he took setup data and placed it in the public domain. He has lied to the stewards. He's no angel. Yet somehow Merc think he's a team player (or worth putting up with) whilst everybody seems to think Alonso is great in the car but trouble out of it.
s***@yahoo.com
2017-08-30 11:15:42 UTC
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Post by bra
The Alonso obsession eludes me. I understand why a couple of years ago some fans "hated" Hamilton, but Alonso?
Fifty years ago, in British drag racing, I instinctively cheered for Alan 'Bootsie' Herridge and booed Clive Skilton, although I knew neither of them. Why? Bootsie was a cheeky short-arsed Sarth London lad wot worked on old motors, and Clive was a professional engineer who drove an E-type and bought ready-built dragster engines direct from the States.
They were both skilled and determined racers, though. So is Alonso. Where do the Alonso insults come from?
It's quite easy to understand, the myriad English-Sheep-Shaggers don't like Alonso because he can beat Hamilton. As he did from 2010 to 2013 when he finished above him every year in the WDC despite driving an inferior Ferrari.
He couldn't even beat Alonso and score more points that him after he engineered the entire McLaren team against him in 2007. When you have manipulated everyone in MCLaren and all the engineers to detest the guts of Alonso you STILL can't beat him.
That really hurts and why Alonso is always on their minds.
Let's not forget Button in '11 and Rosberg in '16 also beat the massively overrated Hamilton. What a coincidence the English-Sheep-Shaggers hated them.
Bigbird
2017-08-30 18:59:26 UTC
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Post by bra
The Alonso obsession eludes me. I understand why a couple of years
ago some fans "hated" Hamilton, but Alonso?
That makes me think you barely understand at all.

For the majority the "hate" for Hamilton originated with Alonso fans
who did not like to see their hero being matched by, to them, an
unknown rookie.

He may have said a couple of things that helped them to justify thier
abuse but that had nothing to do with the underlying reason.

Converesely a lot of the dislike for Alonso was simply a backlash
against the above "fans". The cheating and blackmail likewise fuelled
the fire but were not the underlying reason for most, I am sure.

Certainly that is the way it worked on this group.

There may be those who dislike him for his colour, his bling, his
lifestyle or something he says but for every ten who disparage him for
those 9 just happen to be Alonso fans.
Post by bra
So is Alonso.
Where do the Alonso insults come from?
Fuck all to do with being good drivers that is for sure.

Why don't you set up a group chat with Edmund and dotty and get it from
the horses mouths... well you may have to read between the lines.

Personally I don't expect to like the drivers so don't feel the need to
disparage them regularly.
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